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Showing 1 of 553 conversations about:
matt3o
2752
matt3o
Oct 3, 2018
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Just wanted to give a quick overview on Susuwatari and reply to the most common questions that have been asked so far. == Let's start from the name. I wanted to call the set Charcoal, Graphite or Carbon for obvious reasons but they've already been taken or not very distinctive anyway. So I came up with "Soot" which is cute but weak... until I remembered the "Soot Sprites" that in Japanese are called Susuwatari. I like to pick names that leave people with that "what the f*!&$#?" feeling so the name was picked. Consider it an homage but there's nothing else that connects us to Studio Ghibli (for obvious IP issues). Now, since @YanboWu is like that neighbor old lady and can't hold a secret, you'll know by now that you might get a little extra unlisted surprise... == Material. It's ABS. Why?!?! WHY YOU ABS?! I like PBT and dye-sublimation. They are superior in every possible way BUT, double-shot has its own merits. First of all we have a greater creative freedom when it comes to color schemes. You can't sublimate a color that is lighter than the background for one. Dye-sublimation is a printing process. You first print the legends on a special paper then with heat and vacuum the ink in transferred into the keycap plastic. Now imagine to have a fountain pen with red ink. It's all fancy and dandy while you write on white paper, but you can't write on a black one. With dye-sublimation is the same. The ink color is "added" to the background color. Doubleshot is a two stages molding process (hence double-shot). The legends are made of plastic and melt together with the keycap. Hence each legend requires a mold. Hence we can't go crazy with the number and complexity of legends. Will they fuck up like they fucked up /dev/tty round 1? Things have changed a lot since /dev/tty0, Massdrop has put an engineer to check on production and if they send me prototypes in a timely manner there shouldn't be surprises. Also. Dye-sublimation is very prone to error, each and every key is printed individually (well not really 1-by-1 but bear with me) and the chances of misalignment are pretty high. With double-shot we have one master and then all the keys are molded on that master. So if Massdrop gives me the opportunity to make ALL legends right, this set should be flawless. == Why key X and Y are missing? We are prepping this set since a month now. I usually talk about my creations on Deskthority but the best way to stay up to date is through my blog https://matt3o.com . I always welcome input and criticism, I've added a lot of keys that have been requested in the last month by the community. What I'm saying is, sorry guys, pay more attention next time. Now it's a bit late to make requests... but I believe I still can fix a couple of things here and there (small things). Please also consider that the tooling has to be redone from scratch, we can't add an infinite number of keys. Adding for example an "option" legend requires adding at least 3 new molds (1.5, 1.25, 1) and 6 new keys. These ain't free. That is also the reason why we merged as much as possible all the kits together. We are not working on existing tooling, if we leave the numpad alone it would cost a kidney and we would risk of not actually manufacturing it. That also explains why the huge difference in pricing between 100 and 1000. Once the tooling is done the cost of it is spread among all the keys. The more keys the less impact the tooling has on the final price. == Are the keys textured or smooth? There seem to be a little confusion here. People seem to think that PBT is rough and ABS smooth. While it is true that PBT and ABS have different properties and finishes, the texture to a keycap is mostly given by the mold. The molds are sand blasted, the finer the sand the finer the texture, but technically you can have a rough ABS surface and a smooth PBT surface. In my opinion /dev/tty was a very good compromise. The sides are rather smooth while the top is slightly textured. Susuwatari will probably be smoother. == Color scheme I used a color scheme that is rather original. I mean not the colors but how they are distributed. It's not a standard RGB scheme where the key color corresponds to a key function. I like to try new things otherwise the market stagnates. You can totally not like what I did and think that I am a moron and that I killed the keycaps gods... but that's it, there's a monotone kit if you can't live with my colorway. Honestly what scares me the most is the negativism from other designers and creators. You know, you always get a couple of random internet bullies but when the criticism comes a creator it becomes worrisome. You (we) are the creatives. If we do not try different things, if you don't question the "status quo", if we don't dare... who will?! It's your duty to be creative and it's your prerogative to fail! If all your designs are a success, my dear, you are doing it totally wrong. == General unpleasantness I'm old fashioned. I try not to write to a person what I wouldn't say straight to his/her face. If you don't like the t-shirt of a guy on the street you don't approach him and say "your shirt is so bad that if I vomit on it, it would be an improvement". You just think of it and pass by. I seriously LOL'ed at some of the most edgy comments and I generally don't care about the dickheads, but please consider that there are people on the other side. People who care about making a great product. If you want to make a point unfortunately acting like a douche is the best way for being ignored.
(Edited)
Oct 3, 2018
Idef1x
205
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oGreat post. A little bummed about not having a full international kit, but will most likely get the set anyway :) Keep up the good work.
Oct 3, 2018
cijanzen
600
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oI love how blunt this message is! I really appreciate the effort here and I hope this set does well.
Oct 3, 2018
TwentyThousandRoads
34
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oGreat set, I absolutely love it! I'm planning to buy, however I have one significant concern. Namely, it seems to me that, given all that the base kit includes, it should also include an R1 Delete key. This is widely used and a fairly standard inclusion (if you're already including a fair number of keys in a base kit). For many people, this will necessitate purchasing an Extras kit if they want just that single key from the kit (I can't assume that's the motivation for not including R1 Delete in the base...). This seems inefficient to me, and the set could be greatly improved with the inclusion of R1 Delete in the base offering. Is there any chance of making this change?
Oct 3, 2018
matt3o
2752
matt3o
Oct 3, 2018
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TwentyThousandRoadsthere will always be that one key that that one guy will need. we have to draw a line somewhere, not saying that we can't still improve what we have, I'm working on it, the more I can include in the base set, the better!
Oct 3, 2018
josh_b
267
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oI appreciate the thoughtful comments. This really is an impressive set. My only concern is your mention of the pricing difference between 100 and 1000 units due to tooling. This would suggest that the cost of tooling is being borne by those of us who join this particular drop.
But presumably the tooling will be used for many keycap sets in the future, and therefore this up-front cost should be treated as a long-term investment. Not as a one-time expense to be financed by early adopters.
Oct 3, 2018
matt3o
2752
matt3o
Oct 3, 2018
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josh_bthat is very true but if we reach 1000 it makes no difference! Have you seen the price of the base kit at 1000? and have you seen how many keys are included?
Massdrop is not a pro-bono, they are not rightfully taking the risk to create a completely new set. Like I said, let's make it to 1000 and all this won't matter.
Oct 3, 2018
Dgordon
325
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oThanks for the point about PBT vs. ABS. In my mind, you said exactly what I've heard, which is that PBT is rougher. But that information mislead me to think DSA was PBT! So thanks for making the point about sand blasting at the end.
Love your work Mito. You make amazing stuff. Side note - I wrote you an email with a request and did not hear back from you. If the response is "no", that is totally cool. Just let me know!
Oct 3, 2018
matt3o
2752
matt3o
Oct 3, 2018
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DgordonI am not... Mito...
Oct 3, 2018
Kbdnewbie
62
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oWell said! Even though I've moved away from the layout for the most part, I'd love to see a 2u shift in a future round since it is becoming more common. (Or even a mod colored 2u key in the right row profile in the blanks... come on, I know others have asked in dev/tty both rounds and also on your blog for this one)
That's the only minor ask I would have.
Also, I think I may pick up two sets and I can vomit on one of them and take a straw poll as to which is better for science if ya want. Lemme know! Seriously though, really great work here!
Oct 3, 2018
exdevlin
9
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oI already really wanted to get this because of how you named it, but this post really makes me want to support you because of who you are and your creative spirit. Thanks for answering all these common questions and for bringing these caps to the community.
I know this is really hard to answer, but do you think there's a chance there will be a round 2? Do you know how MD decides if it's worth doing a round 2 for a set of very custom caps like this one?
Oct 3, 2018
Dgordon
325
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oWait, what? Wow. I don't know what to say. I thought you were the same guy. So Godspeed is not you? Geeze I feel like an idiot. I do love this set either way though. But yeah I did not email you, I emailed Mito though not you - sorry for the confusion!
Oct 3, 2018
TwentyThousandRoads
34
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oI respect that. And I'm really impressed with the base kit inclusions and price. However I have to respectfully add that R1 Delete is quite commonly used and that it will be much more than "one guy" in this case.
Oct 3, 2018
Dgordon
325
Oct 3, 2018
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TwentyThousandRoadsYeah that backspace R1 is normally part of any 'base' set. I guess a lot of keyboards do have it on the R2 row, but R1 seems to be most common.
Oct 3, 2018
Dgordon
325
Oct 3, 2018
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TwentyThousandRoadsActually I see an R1 backspace key in the base kit, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. Did he just change it?
Oct 3, 2018
desutruction
245
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oHey man. I LOVE this color scheme. It reminds me of Gruvbox, which has been my terminal and vim color scheme for more than a year now. I've been waiting for someone to make a keyset out of it and now my wish has been granted.
Oct 3, 2018
matt3o
2752
matt3o
Oct 3, 2018
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desutructionyou, kind sir, totally nailed it. It is indeed inspired by gruvbox
Oct 3, 2018
TwentyThousandRoads
34
Oct 3, 2018
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DgordonI was talking about R1 Delete. Backspace and Delete are significantly different functions. And having one backspace key directly above another looks hella tacky. R1 1u Delete and R2 1.5u Backspace is an extremely common HHKB layout.
Oct 3, 2018
Zambumon
3484
Zambumon
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oOf course, real Mitos add an always at your service at the end of their posts.
search
Oct 3, 2018
Hedgey
17
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oFor future sets, since you can't really add to this one, would you please consider an R4 ESC for the Ortho set? (I didn't see one in there so forgive me if I missed it.) I keep my ESC on the bottom left corner of my ortho boards for easy pinky access.
I'm still totally in for a Base Set, Extras, and Ortho.
Thanks for the hard work!
Oct 3, 2018
WXYdd
82
Oct 3, 2018
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josh_bThis is always the case with any product that requires molds or special toolings. Per item cost will be based on the estimate initial qty. Prices go down graduately once the initial cost is recovered.
Obviously, if you are Apple and sells millions, that cost becomes insignicant, but there is always a min because new molds are required after a certain qty. They don’t last forever.
The only difference here is that GB format predetermines that qty with certainty. You are given the info henceforth to make a decision whether to buy, or not to buy. But you are not made a sucker or victim by any means.
I too want to buy this set at much lower price, albeit what I just wrote. But all those involved need to make a living, too. Or else, where is the incentive?
Hope we make it to 1000. Like ‘Mito’ says... I mean Matt3o. 😅
Oct 3, 2018
Marutk
75
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oIs it possible to move not-scooped F and J to Base Kit or Extras? Now I have to buy whole Colemak kit just to get not scooped F and J.
Oct 3, 2018
ibibass
86
Oct 3, 2018
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matt3oHey @Matt3o, I love the inclusion of a 1.75u enter key for those who use a 40%, but the main gripe I have with this set is the lack of a R3 1.25u key for those who would actually use that 1.75u key. Even just a blank would be very nice. Missing that key, but having the rest of the keys for a 40 seems like a grand oversight to me.
Oct 3, 2018
Rainbowraptor
286
Oct 4, 2018
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matt3oYou have said it will be smoother then the PBT version but how smooth are you aiming for? Will it be similar to Signature Plastics SA or to GMK's offerings? Sorry for being so insistent on this.
Oct 4, 2018
Smugmug
64
Oct 4, 2018
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matt3oLove your attitude and confrontation, dude. The double shot ABS should set aside the quality assurance on sublimated PBT. Make sure the light colored second shot does not overflow onto surface (it happen to some $70 JTK set, but never not to any thing over $100, e.g., mod key). Try delivery on time - it's hard, and we are in with patience - until summer came again.
Oct 4, 2018
matt3o
2752
matt3o
Oct 4, 2018
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ibibasslet's reach 1000 and I'll have more leverage.
Oct 4, 2018
macken
315
Oct 4, 2018
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matt3oany chance for a nordic set in the future if this does well?
Oct 4, 2018
matt3o
2752
matt3o
Oct 4, 2018
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mackenI'm all in for international kits!
Oct 4, 2018
XTaran
361
Oct 4, 2018
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matt3oThanks for this awesome key cap set! Looking very much forward to it. IMHO it's neither depressive nor dull at all, given that the dark colors are _warm_ dark colors (especially compared to some dolch-ish key cap sets with rather cold greys) and it has colorful legends. It has something cosy and burrow-ish—like a nerd cavern. :-)
I'm really curious on the much-praised MT3 profile as I didn't join /dev/tty MT3 for a variety of reasons¹. So I'm really glad about the new MT3 key cap set is with dark and warm colors and colorful legends. Hence I also don't mind the price tag. :-)
Of course PBT would have been nicer, but while PBT double-shot is possible (or at least tried), it's still seldom, because even more work than ABS double-shot. And at least for it's clear that the prices would have been much higher and hence the chance to hit the MOQ much lower if PBT double-shot would have been tried.
I also like the fact that your key caps sets always have a new and original colorway, not something we have already seen. So please continue to do so. :-)
¹) Didn't join /dev/tty mostly because I like either orange or dark alphas, and I would have had to get both novelty sets because I wanted the dark orange key caps from the Triumph novelties but with the beige novelties as turquoise key caps don't fit into any of my common color schemes.
Oct 4, 2018
josh_b
267
Oct 4, 2018
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WXYddI agree with you 100%, and I think that I do understand the basics of the group buy thing. But the problem is that new tooling always seems to bring new QC issues, and also what you said:
> Prices go down graduately once the initial cost is recovered.
So unless (1) I absolutely love the design or (2) I have a lot of faith in the vendor (e.g. both true in the case of GMK space cadet) then I have no incentive to finance the development of new tooling. From a game theory point of view, it just makes more sense to wait for R2.
As I mentioned elsewhere, I think that one way that Massdrop could incentivize our investment in R1 tooling would be a guaranteed nominal discount on future drops that use the same tooling. Maybe 10-15% off. And limit that discount to one complete set of keycaps, to avoid enabling flippers. It's a small gesture, but I think it would go a long way toward encouraging folks to join R1 drops, and to dull the disappointment associated with inevitable R1 QC issues.
Regarding being a sucker or victim: After learning more about R1 /dev/tty over the last couple days, I do think that those guys kind of got screwed. And there was a recent R1 knife drop that involved a totally new product developed by Massdrop-- I can say that many of us felt we didn't get the knife that was promised, and the drama and anger was intense.
Oct 4, 2018
internetparty
145
Oct 4, 2018
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matt3oIs it too late to get a R3 ctrl for ortholinear?
Oct 4, 2018
Lluba
2
Oct 4, 2018
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matt3oThanks so much for including "alternatives of alternative" layouts support in Dvorak & Colemak kit. I could not imagine that we will have support for Colemak DH in sculptured profile so soon. It is interesting if that allow to sell more of the kit, but I would say that with typical low count of Colevrak kit sale in other drops, each extra person counts. I definitely join the drop just because of Colemak DH support. Separate ortholinear is also sweet. Just one side comment (I know, it is late to ask for additions, but anyway), there is one niche variant of "alternative of alternative" Colemak DH exists, when this layout is applied to ortholinear keyboard, many people prefer to swap M and K. While R4 K exists in Colemak, there is no such thing as R3 M in any other layout. Including R3 M will allow to cover Colemak DHm variant as well. All R3 alphas kit (as Adaptive Alphas in SA Carbon) would help as well. Thank you for listening.
Oct 4, 2018
Gankutsuou
16
Oct 4, 2018
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LlubaExtending the ¨Thank yous¨ here for providing more compatibility in the colevrak kits and hoping they sell so we can see more support for Mod DH in upcoming sets!
Oct 4, 2018
Joe405
353
Oct 5, 2018
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ibibassYup it's weird to have 1.75u enter but not 1.25u tab. Not sure which layout could use it
Oct 5, 2018
ibibass
86
Oct 6, 2018
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matt3oI think that we shall!
Oct 6, 2018
AlexPk
7196
Community
Oct 6, 2018
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matt3oWhat are the chances of getting a key like this put in?
search
Oct 6, 2018
aikilink
124
Oct 7, 2018
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AlexPkOh my goodness, that is cute! It would be super awesome, and hopefully not infringing on anything, but I think the kits have been pretty much set. That is an awesome mock-up though! :D
Oct 7, 2018
coffeeshopcoder
281
Oct 8, 2018
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matt3oI got my /dev/tty R2 a few weeks back and I absolutely love it ! The best profile I have used. An avid fan of the SA profile, I definitely like the MT3 profile a lot more!
I've signed up for the base and extras, and I love this colorway. Thanks for doing something sober like the gruvbox scheme instead of some really loud scheme. Love the accents too !
Oct 8, 2018
DougRenfrew
25
Oct 9, 2018
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matt3oI have been wanting to try this profile for some time. Do you have the Pantone names for the colors? I am curious if the alpha legend color is closer to a tan (like DSA Coffee House) or a cream (like GMK Plum)?
Oct 9, 2018
coffeeshopcoder
281
Oct 10, 2018
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DougRenfrewNot to sound sour - but if you wanted to try the profile (it rocks, if you like high profile caps), then you may want to try mech market to get some of the /dev/tty. The ship date on this drop is pretty far out - they will need time to make *all* the key moulds, legend moulds, and QA them - so you will be waiting quite a bit to find this in your mailbox if you wanted to try the profile sooner.
Oct 10, 2018
DougRenfrew
25
Oct 10, 2018
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coffeeshopcoderThanks for the tip; I'm not in a rush though.
I actually looked in to picking up a set during the Massdrop Keycap-Recap a couple weeks ago. However, to cover an MX-HHKB layout (like a Tokyo60), I think it required three kits: base, WKL, and extra mods (or maybe it was base, mods, extra mods and 7U space, IDK) and it was more than I wanted to spend. Additionally, the recap also was selling `/dev/tty0` (round 1) which I read had some QC issues. These base set for this drop covers the layouts I want to use it on and seems to be popular enough to maybe even bring that drip down to $100 USD.
Oct 10, 2018
etatauri
329
Oct 10, 2018
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josh_bInteresting idea. That would make it a bit like a kickstarter - a discount for being an early adopter. I would second this idea, except if this becomes the case, I would be a little worried that maybe because there was a discount, there would be less of an incentive to make the R1 set 'perfect.' This could easily backfire on us by them saying 'we gave you a discount because there is a risk, and that was reflected in the price.' There's always a trade-off in these kinds of strategies but yeah, less money is always good for me :)
Concerning the R1 dev/tty, yes, there were quality issues like my Colemak layout coming with a different font weight. It took a couple more months for the replacements to arrive, but in the end, the issue was fixed, and I never regretted buying it.
Oct 10, 2018
Gankutsuou
16
Oct 15, 2018
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matt3o@matt3o Could it be doable to add a R3 M key to the colevrak set? Some of us do swap M and K on ortho layouts, take a look at the bottom of https://colemakmods.github.io/mod-dh/keyboards.html
Oct 15, 2018
matt3o
2752
matt3o
Oct 15, 2018
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GankutsuouI'm trying to force some small updates into this drop (including R3 M), let's see how it goes! No promises but I'm trying!
Oct 15, 2018
Gankutsuou
16
Oct 15, 2018
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matt3oThanks for caring! :)
Oct 15, 2018
MechEng
345
Oct 27, 2018
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matt3oWill this set have a rough or satin texture/ look or have more of a IBM Selectric II creamy keycap finish?
Oct 27, 2018
Jino74
832
Oct 28, 2018
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matt3oHi, Thanks for putting this amazing set together. Unfortunately, I had to drop out at the last minute after realizing that my setups require r0 and r1 del keys (65 and 75 percent boards) and it would require me to buy the extras. Assuming there'd be another run in the future, can you consider adding them to the base set? I just couldn't justify spending another $50 to get it.
Oct 28, 2018
aikilink
124
Oct 29, 2018
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Jino74Hey, I was on the fence about getting the extras - if I did, would you want to set up an agreement for me to sell you those two keys? If you're in the US, we could do some pretty cheap shipping method, and you could pay something to offset the cost for extras for me? If not, no biggie - using ortho boards, I don't have a problem keeping those Del keys, but figured I could offer to help you out. If you're up for it, let me know, and we can be in touch via email - I am willing to commit to something like this, even though it might be 9 months before we actually get the caps.
Oct 29, 2018
Jino74
832
Oct 30, 2018
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aikilinkI'm interested. Can you PM me on u/Jino74 on reddit?
Oct 30, 2018
Jmoons
0
Oct 30, 2018
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matt3ocan we have more emoticon in this set? like _(:3 」∠ )_ or ( ´゚Д゚`)
Oct 30, 2018
sevenseacat
1938
Oct 30, 2018
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JmoonsIt's a bit late to ask for a bunch of extra stuff given the drop closes in like two days...
Oct 30, 2018
Jmoons
0
Oct 30, 2018
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sevenseacatYou're right..sad _(:3 」∠ )_
Oct 30, 2018
OldCat
2500
Oct 31, 2018
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matt3oHey would it be possible to include the 1.25u fox keys in either the base or novelty? The foxes are iconic Matt3o stuff
Oct 31, 2018
carlouws
40
Nov 1, 2018
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matt3oI'm glad that this will be my first Custom Keycap Set. I'm considering picking up the high profile Massdrop CTRL keyboard. Could it be possible to see a render of this keycap set on a black high profile Massdrop CTRL?
Nov 1, 2018
OldCat
2500
Jan 1, 2019
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OldCatI guess maybe not but pls consider!! Foxes are Matt3o icons! @matt3o
Jan 1, 2019
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