Click to view our Accessibility Statement or contact us with accessibility-related questions
jscrub
May 25, 2018
I am posting a rebuttal to my comment which was censored a while back where I said "to be honest mito creeps me the fuck out" - I was attacked, people went into my facebook. I reacted incorrectly and then said "well if you're going to censor me it makes me think mito is a pedo," which just isn't the right thing to say, it was an emotional reaction and I really was trying to speak out against the process in general. I deserved my lashings and in hindsight should have spent more time to communicate my thoughts; which are below.
When I said mito creeps me out what I meant was, we are selling hype and in the end the product isn't any more unique than any other organization can produce. I was turned off by this color scheme, but more than that, the reaction of the community to an absolute puke of a system. We are creating a market of scarcity and the people who generate the hype are profiting hand over fist.
Do we have any understanding of the suppliers? Who is doing the machining for the housing? Where are the PCBs being assembled? Are you using fair trade labor and are you supporting American or European labor? Are you jobbing this out to a cheap Chinese board house and a cheap Chinese aluminum supplier?
What we get are a few pictures and some cool attitudes, we get a personality; isn't that what is most important? The person behind the design! Rather, there are a lot of pieces to this puzzle and slapping some renders and pretty colors behind a build doesn't mean you deserve the rewards associated because you are taking advantage of the global supply chain. I imagine MiTo is from affluence, or at least he attempts to project that in his persona.
What is the return on investment on an artisan keeb with pretty colors? Currently there is no market value... I have seen rare builds go for 1k on mechmarket... these keyboards have maybe 30 dollars worth of hardware cost.
We don't see massdrop itemize the cost of their assemblies, nor do we see the consumers ever demand anything regarding a supplier report. Only on small artisan made knives will you get a documentation of the supplier, as the people purchasing blades care about where their steel comes from.
Again, if you have the attention span to read. This hype is fucking us, this color scheme is trash and they are producing these things using the cheapest suppliers possible while charging you the highest possible price. The model itself takes the principals of lean manufacturing and applies it to the consumer side. It is a stock management nerds heaven, an accountants wet dream.
I understand, at least you get a unique item... but anybody can assemble pretty keyboards. Where is the benefit to the customer? Where is the betterment of the community? Massdrop is supposed to bring transparency to the vendor and a unique low price, rather the customer gets a hype machine, while massdrop reaps all the benefits of removing any customer service costs or costs associated with carrying inventory.
Every sale massdrop runs on the site is literally an inventory turn, you see things that are common items on massdrop? Those are the items massdrop makes the greatest margin on, the rest of the unique items are the fluff that generate traffic to drive high margin items, like massdrop knives and massdrop headphones.
In the old days we would get unique product (before walmart killed creativity) and now we have massdrop, where we trade customer service and the right to purchase product at will for the chance to get a unique drop direct from the manufacturer.
After spending time on the site though, I do not see the cost savings. Somebody is scraping profit from this gig and I assume massdrop is not running this for free. Consequently, we get censored when we speak out, we get ignored when we ask for help, and when a good product is actually in demand, it is used against us to sell us more shit in between the hype.
If massdrop actually carried the stock that was in demand or ran regular on popular items with sale prices they would satisfy all their customers and the model would collapse. It is an amazing business model that is the ultimate manifestation of the capitalist spirit... but for fucks sake, when I say "mito creeps me out" don't get your panties in a bunch.
TL;DR Massdrop is making retail margins but not carrying any inventory or providing any customer service. Mito, they are selling your name for hype. This is probably going to get censored and the friendly turd from customer service will politely tell me to eat some dicks.
sevenseacat
1938
May 25, 2018
jscrubMate, if you don't want the keyboard, then don't buy it. Pretty simple.
Rice_Krispies
53
May 25, 2018
jscrubYou are of course, entitled to your opinion. A couple thoughts as I was reading your thesis:
Personally, I love GMK laser. I think the color scheme is great. If it's not for you, that's fine. Using words and phrases like 'puke', 'wet dream', 'trash', and 'creep' are a random appeal to emotion that don't really change my mind on that topic.
I agree that this board and keyset are really expensive. Is MiTo Making some money from sale of these keycaps? I sure as hell hope so. He took a long time to design this keyset. He tweaked it constantly according to community feedback on his IC site. It covers so many random layouts, and he did a terrific job.
In terms of: do we know who makes the components that go in this board? No. Maybe like 5 people on this chain might. The keyset is GMK. I think by know we know a modicum of what goes on there if you care enough to look into it.
Is massdrop making money from selling this keyboard? Definitely. That's capitalism. Your post seems more of a cry of anger against this. But massdrop and mechs are one small microcosm into the economic world order in which we reside. You could copy and paste your post into a forum for stupid clothing brands like Supreme, BAPE, whatever. I fail to see the difference between mechanical keyboard stuff and anything where prices rise due to perceived quality and perceived scarcity.
I don't know man, keebs are a silly hobby that I love. It's OK to be hyped about any number of things out there. Let it go, guy.
desutruction
245
May 25, 2018
jscrubYour ROI is getting a keyboard you want with the keycaps you want and the satisfaction that goes with it. Yup, strange how your investment could be the product you bought in the first place, huh?
>This color scheme is trash Your taste is trash. (We're sharing opinions here, right?)
>anybody can assemble pretty keyboards. You sure about that, bud?
>Where is the benefit to the customer? The benefit is, again, getting a nice keyboard with nice keycaps. On another level this also has a lot of other goodies - 2 usb-c connectors, aluminum frame, hotswap, per-key RGB and underglow, QMK support. That's a lot of benefits.
Massdrop is an enthusiast site, not a grocery. Your obsession with this creeps me up, honestly. Also, have you considered that maybe it's your attitude that gets you "censored"?
jscrub
May 25, 2018
desutructionso you dont care this aluminum costs 10 dollars and they are using poor chinese suppliers for PCBs and Cases?
jscrub
May 25, 2018
sevenseacatyeah, I wouldn't expect people to think too hard about it. Thanks for the read.
jscrub
May 25, 2018
Rice_KrispiesThis isn't just capitalism, it is a new model and it is prohibitive to the consumer while appearing to be unique.
This was me letting go, I vocalized my frustration. Issue is people don't care there is no information on the supplier, as long as they get their parts. They are not a silly hobby, just as everything else, consumerism is how we are defined, and I like it just as much as the next guy.
I just do not see the common good and MiTo is now being used as a marketing tool to sell more shit through the massdrop model. The groupbuy model existed before it was incorporated, and I still support independent ventures.
I have done a 180 on massdrop though, they aren't here to save you money or help communities grow. Massdrop is here to profit off the status quo, and you'd be hard pressed to find an example where they have revolutionized the market offering through the model.
If anything you save $10 wait a few extra months and massdrop is making the same margins as usual.
I am sorry I put shit in there about my taste and what this color scheme looks like. I should have stuck to the business concepts as not to offend anyone.
Rice_Krispies
53
May 25, 2018
jscrubThanks for the reply. I think I understand more of where you are coming from now.
I see two main points in what you are saying.
1) Mindless consumerism. I worry about that as well. There's a deep hole in some peoples' lives that some people fill up with being things. It doesn't work. I try not to do this with keyboards , but I am definitely guilty of buying switches I try once and never use, of having two keyboards and buying another, only to sell it later.
2) Massdrop stifling a growing mechanical keyboard community. Not sure about this. I am relatively new to all this, but if anything I see way more people interested in exploring switches, keycaps, and boards. Not so much soldering and full custom stuff, but that's how it goes.
All right, have a great day.
jscrub
May 25, 2018
Rice_KrispiesThank you for summarizing my perspective rather than picking apart my points, and you are correct, that is a concise summary. It got blown out of proportion but the topic isn't something designed for the message board and I started my protest with ambiguous hate lambasted at MiTo.
In regard to stifling growth, I think his designs are cool, but the MiTo purple keyboard caused me to reflect on the dynamic that massdrop is producing. Creative artisan work is awesome but if massdrop is going to claim to bring value to the experience they should at least bring transparency to the process.
Rather, when you scroll through the available drops, most items are 0-20 purchasers and there is no advantage to the drop over using the conventional internet for the purchase. I think most items are in place to drive traffic and there are some heavy hitting items, custom keycaps and keyboards, headphones, and knives that are a high margin items and there is no reason, other than scarcity, for the cost to be prohibitively expensive.
Maybe I am ahead of the trend and keyboards and keycaps just are not popular enough for an economic model, but it seems the market is fit for a revolution as every person in the workplace uses keebs and even with VR devices keyboards are not going away for another ten years.
Custom colored plastic and unique keyboard layouts are a perfect fit for the consumer. They can be accessorized (artisans, cables, deskmats) and people often get multiple keyboards for one computer. The crowdfunding programs raise $400k+ for designs just like the MiTo Laser. People do not realize the return on investment for tapping the keyboard wave and getting a winning ticket.
So again, I am sorry for the hate and was wrong to attack MiTo, I just cannot see why his name is on this keyboard other than to sell more ALT variant keyboards. If they are selling more ALT variant keyboards, where is our cost savings for the batch buy. These are the same PCB and the same housing, anodized purple.
If we are going to go that far, why not look at the suppliers themselves. Why not ensure that if we are paying for high margin product that the company facilitating the purchase is using vendors that don't destroy their environment or pay their workers $2.00 a day.
sevenseacat
1938
May 26, 2018
jscrubI have no time for people who insult other people's preferences as "trash" while proclaiming their own preferences as fact.
I don't give a shit about the rest of your argument. Massdrop is a company selling products to make money. They sell some products that you cannot buy as-is anywhere else (such as the ALT), and others that you could only buy much more expensively (keysets).
Keyboards are made to be used, not to be bought as an "investment". There is no return on investment. You pay money, you get a nice keyboard, that's all there is to it. If you no longer want the keyboard, then you can sell it, but that's not an "investment".
If you don't think it's worth the money (which is indeed probably a lot more than the sum of its parts), then don't buy it. A lot of us do, because we do not have the knowledge or time to assemble all of the different parts that work together, assemble the boards, etc. So we're happy to pay that premium.
And as to why MiTo's name is on it, from the very first post in this discussion page -
> welcome to the project Mito and I have been cooking ever since Laser launched!
That's six months they've been working on the idea and refining it to the point of having a saleable product. Is he not entitled to some reward for that?
If you buy a brand-name TV or other consumer product, do you demand to see some kind of breakdown of their costs and components to know why it's so expensive? Why are keyboards any different?
jscrub
May 26, 2018
sevenseacatI am sorry I put personal preference and short words in with my actual argument, as it allows people to ignore my point and attack me from the fan boy perspective.
I have been asking for information on their suppliers and haven't gotten a word. That is all I'm lookin for, sorry to use angry words, again I was wrong.
PRODUCTS YOU MAY LIKE
Trending Posts in Mechanical Keyboards