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YanboWu
8490
Collaborations
Jun 1, 2018
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HotRoderX
753
Jun 1, 2018
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YanboWuyou know it been nice to have been told ahead of time. I be canceling for sure now .. this has left a really bad taste in my mouth and I was always quick to defend massdrop but this is some seriously hosed BS. This isn't something we couldn't have been warned about ahead of time.
YanboWu
8490
Collaborations
Jun 1, 2018
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HotRoderXMy apologies for the lack of warning - you can actually cancel through your transactions.
I will do a better job warning everyone of these things in the future.
I will do a better job warning everyone of these things in the future.
sevenseacat
1938
Jun 1, 2018
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YanboWuNo, you need to change copy on your drop pages that clearly states that payment will only be taken when the drop ends. This was *really* poorly done.
HotRoderX
753
Jun 1, 2018
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YanboWuyea I did cancel and there zero reason this couldn't have been said at the start of the drop. That once it hit 500 units people be charged. Once it hit a certain date I mean this has left me with no confidence in massdrop in general. When I go to buy into the next keyset drop I am going to wait till the last min. Because someone might decided that it be smart move to go ahead and charge people early. Which if warned at the start is fine. Then I know hey if I don't want to be hit up early then I need to wait and if I am ok with it, I need to make sure the money is there to be taken early.
sevenseacat
1938
Jun 1, 2018
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HotRoderXAye, every major drop has a few people saying 'I won't have money until X date, I'll join after that' and we always reassure them that nothing will be paid until drop ends, and get in early to encourage more price drops. This basically screws all of that up, and could have seriously impacted a lot of people. This is not an insignificant sum of money here.
sevenseacat
1938
Jun 1, 2018
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YanboWuRefunds can take up to 30 days to go through. You've just taken people's money without getting their consent.
YanboWu
8490
Collaborations
Jun 1, 2018
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TrendI'm sorry to hear about that man - to the rest of you - I hear what you are saying and I'll be evaluating this process for all our future drops so this communication is clear on the onset and people can make informed decisions.
Tagnaras
66
Jun 1, 2018
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YanboWuWow....how could you all think this was going to be ok? I was going thru paying bills and look at my account to notice that I had been charged for something I shouldn't have until 17 days later. I see people on /rmk talk poorly of massdrop all the time and now I can understand some of the hate. This right here is big strike against Massdrop as far as I am concerned and will now make me hold off until the end of drops to go in if even at all.
ASpatha
76
Jun 1, 2018
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TagnarasHoly, I'll have to keep an eye on that. I figured it worked like kick starter that it charged everyone as soon as the drop ended. I'll have to check I just backed out of the EDC3 NuForce headphones. I'm concerned with NuForces's quality. 5 months in and they wouldn't stay in one piece. Currently working through a warranty on there EDC headphones if anyone is wondering.
shyBravado
94
Jun 1, 2018
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YanboWuYikes... with everything else that’s gone on in this discussion page, this drop has been a ride.
jscrub
Jun 1, 2018
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YanboWutypical massdrop "we are shitty but you can cancel your order if you are unhappy with us"
I also like that rather than taking a lower margin, massdrop would rather inconvenience their customers....
Last, what do you mean, "sorry for getting the message out late" - like this was a surprise decision you made in a couple hours? Who is running your organization?
I also like that rather than taking a lower margin, massdrop would rather inconvenience their customers....
Last, what do you mean, "sorry for getting the message out late" - like this was a surprise decision you made in a couple hours? Who is running your organization?
JJ88
165
Jun 1, 2018
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YanboWuSo let me see if I understand correctly...in order to make an extra buck, you took people's money more than 2 weeks early without any warning or advance notification?
Although @jscrub is sounding like a broken record. The one point he makes that does resonate with me now is the timing of this drop in relation to the ALT order. Now @YanboWu just seems to have completely confirmed that, stating that the first 500 Laser ALT keyboard orders were placed with the recently completed ALT drop.
This all leaves a very bad taste in my mouth and I have cancelled my order.
Although @jscrub is sounding like a broken record. The one point he makes that does resonate with me now is the timing of this drop in relation to the ALT order. Now @YanboWu just seems to have completely confirmed that, stating that the first 500 Laser ALT keyboard orders were placed with the recently completed ALT drop.
This all leaves a very bad taste in my mouth and I have cancelled my order.
Hikasaki
1282
Jun 1, 2018
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JJ88Welp, glad I purchased with paypal credit. Won’t have to pay that off any time soon.
Hikasaki
1282
Jun 1, 2018
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JJ88People got bills to pay! Not cool Massdrop. 500 Laser ALT were placed with the completed ALT...I’m positive that’s exactly what happened.
Hikasaki
1282
Jun 1, 2018
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ASpathaWould of been fine if everyone was informed that Massdrop would charge the first 500 people who joined once drop reaches 500 orders beforehand and get some nice incentive for doing so like serial numbers 500 and under. It was done all out of the blue. Now some people are facing bank charges because of overdraft and cancelling to pay bills instead. Because they didn’t expect to make payment until much later.
HotRoderX
753
Jun 1, 2018
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ASpathayea and to top things off they charged people and then came on the drop and told people they be charged hours after the fact.
Hikasaki
1282
Jun 1, 2018
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HotRoderXMassdrop hurt me financially and physically. My wife just beat me because I was charged earlier than expected. Instead of paying bills I bought an keyboard. Now I'm sleeping on the couch and have nothing for dinner. I suffered bruises and an empty wallet. I demand compensation! Seriously... ;)
dvorcol
5375
Keyboard Club Member
Jun 1, 2018
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YanboWuWas this already revised or not?
"After drop ends, payment will be collected..." This reads as if it is business as usual.
"...order will be submitted to the vendor up front..." What? This seems like the opposite of the beginning of the sentence. Which is it, pay now or pay at the end?
"...making all sales final." When are sales final? Up front, or at the end of the drop?
"Check the discussion page for updates on your order." A lot of people neither look at the discussion page nor read the fine print at the bottom of the overview. Make this procedure change impossible to miss. For example:
These are just my suggestions to minimize the negative impact of this sudden change.
"After drop ends, payment will be collected..." This reads as if it is business as usual.
"...order will be submitted to the vendor up front..." What? This seems like the opposite of the beginning of the sentence. Which is it, pay now or pay at the end?
"...making all sales final." When are sales final? Up front, or at the end of the drop?
"Check the discussion page for updates on your order." A lot of people neither look at the discussion page nor read the fine print at the bottom of the overview. Make this procedure change impossible to miss. For example:
These are just my suggestions to minimize the negative impact of this sudden change.
KM1337
1881
Jun 1, 2018
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HikasakiYeah! I want a Laser Alt in Dusk delivered to me as compensation for this grievous inconvenience and physical harm endured from the transaction! (Like, 50% joking)
Hikasaki
1282
Jun 1, 2018
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HerpDerpenberg
288
Jun 2, 2018
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YanboWuProbably better to charge now to possibly avoid higher tariff fees. Still a bummer of a situation, but should have notified those who opted in a bit earlier. The fact that people can cancel the transaction, get a refund, and sign back up later is a work around but could have been avoided. I'm surprised that there wasn't an early charge announced like there was for the vanilla ALT that was used to put an early deposit on the order. But was this similar to the vanilla ALT pre-charge or is this off the recent trade tariffs in the news and a separate matter?
That being said, people who have "bills to pay" and having funds locked up like this impacting your life expenses need to take a step back at the situation instead of blaming Massdrop. Yes, they should have notified those a lot earlier so they could cancel and avoid the charge. That they are wrong at. But also as a consumer, if having a couple hundred bucks tied up is a make or break life expense choice, wait until the drop is near the end. Nobody should be putting their hand up to buy without accounting (no pun intended) that they have the funds to back it up. Clicking "join drop" is a group buy is a commitment of your money.
That being said, people who have "bills to pay" and having funds locked up like this impacting your life expenses need to take a step back at the situation instead of blaming Massdrop. Yes, they should have notified those a lot earlier so they could cancel and avoid the charge. That they are wrong at. But also as a consumer, if having a couple hundred bucks tied up is a make or break life expense choice, wait until the drop is near the end. Nobody should be putting their hand up to buy without accounting (no pun intended) that they have the funds to back it up. Clicking "join drop" is a group buy is a commitment of your money.
rowie
1096
Keyboard Club Member
Jun 2, 2018
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HerpDerpenbergThe problem for a lot of people is that designers and fans encourages to “join early” in an attempt to reach MOQ faster as a way to get more people to hit that “join” button (creates hype). If every drop is like this situation then it might be better to just join the last three days. There are some people like me who join to help reach moq faster (but have money set aside for this drop). But I agree that money should be available at all times once you commit. For some, having the flexibility to join early without worrying about getting charged randomly was nice since you can plan out what you really want to do with finance or if you want to join a different drop elsewhere.
HotRoderX
753
Jun 2, 2018
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HerpDerpenbergThen massdrop need's to not advertise the following " After the drop ends, payment will be collected and the group’s order will be submitted to the vendor up front, making all sales final. Check the discussion page for updates on your order. " and need to advertise they can take the money at any point. They also need to stop pushing for people to join early for price break's. Then as far as not having the money in a given account. There lot of people that sue a special account for online transactions. They do this cause 40% of online data bases now have joker level security.
jscrub
Jun 2, 2018
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YanboWu "I'm sorry to hear about that man - to the rest of you - I hear what you are saying and I'll be evaluating this process for all our future drops so this communication is clear on the onset and people can make informed decisions." - @YanboWu
Basically, you acted like you are cool, "man," then said you hear what we are saying, no shit it is all over the forum, and you are going to evaluate the process? What fucking process? It was a process to click a few buttons and collect before drop end? How about the process of notifying people a few hours before you change your mind.
Is massdrop insolvent? Do you not have the money in your organization that you have to collect the funds for every drop before you submit your PO to the vendor? That doesn't make sense, how many extra are you planning to order for the add-ons that join after this date of collection?
How do tariffs work? Are they even applied to the date of purchase? Aren't they applied by the carrier during the process of delivery? How does submitting a purchase order early help by any means? If you were collecting early to submit an early PO to get early delivery, hypothetically before the tariffs went into place, how much money are you even going to save compared to the amount of stress you just created for the 500+ people in the drop?
Basically, you acted like you are cool, "man," then said you hear what we are saying, no shit it is all over the forum, and you are going to evaluate the process? What fucking process? It was a process to click a few buttons and collect before drop end? How about the process of notifying people a few hours before you change your mind.
Is massdrop insolvent? Do you not have the money in your organization that you have to collect the funds for every drop before you submit your PO to the vendor? That doesn't make sense, how many extra are you planning to order for the add-ons that join after this date of collection?
How do tariffs work? Are they even applied to the date of purchase? Aren't they applied by the carrier during the process of delivery? How does submitting a purchase order early help by any means? If you were collecting early to submit an early PO to get early delivery, hypothetically before the tariffs went into place, how much money are you even going to save compared to the amount of stress you just created for the 500+ people in the drop?
CoyoteMegalo
26
Jun 3, 2018
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YanboWuSo, with this operation you can ship earlier the first 500 units sold.
No more excuses. We must wait "Nov 16, 2018 PT", unthinkable...
Fatalruin
194
Jun 4, 2018
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rowieNo, you should have the money when the transaction is complete which is when the drop ends. In a typical store front, you pay for an item before you take it home because that is the agreement you make at the time of purchase. Some things like services are billed after delivery. On Massdrop you agree to pay when the drop ends. Why would you need the money beforehand? Do you need the money for an item at a store front a month prior to purchase? They dropped the ball, plain and simple, and on top of it, they broke the agreement we all made when we clicked the join button.
naverlands
144
Jun 5, 2018
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YanboWuI’m like im buying this and now what is happening? Is the drop going to be ok? I’m the go to actual store and pay a person kind of guy. Online shopping is hard enough. I can’t go through all those complcated steps. I will get confused.
MiTo
13955
MiTo
Jun 6, 2018
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naverlandsThe drop is indeed going to be ok, once the drop concludes the project will start manufacturing. Then it will be delivered per the estimated date on the main page.
jscrub
Jun 6, 2018
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MiToSo is th is drop at 100k in sales? Why weren't quantity breaks extended to both the Alt and the laser keyboard? Why were they split into two separate drops?
Did you split the drop just to sell more hype? I do not understand why massdrop would prioritize profit over their customer.
Why was this drop split from the Alt if massdrop collected funds early to submit the buy for the two separate projects together?
Did you split the drop just to sell more hype? I do not understand why massdrop would prioritize profit over their customer.
Why was this drop split from the Alt if massdrop collected funds early to submit the buy for the two separate projects together?
kindjie
118
Jun 8, 2018
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jscrubI think the breaks on this drop are for the keycaps only. The original and the Laser are pretty much the same price after subtracting switches and caps. Number of sales is public information on the Overview page (just over 600 total at the time of this writing). More detail in the discussion if you scroll through.
They did split the drop for hype, yes. Many of us (especially those of us who missed out on Laser) are super excited to have a chance to grab these keys, and I really hope they keep doing collabs like this. Not everyone wants to get a whole keyboard themed around a single colourway, which is why you had the chance to get the original Alt.
@YanboWu made a mistake by not making it clear when funds would be collected and I trust that it won't happen in the future. It sucks for those who were relying on it being at the end of the drop.
They did split the drop for hype, yes. Many of us (especially those of us who missed out on Laser) are super excited to have a chance to grab these keys, and I really hope they keep doing collabs like this. Not everyone wants to get a whole keyboard themed around a single colourway, which is why you had the chance to get the original Alt.
@YanboWu made a mistake by not making it clear when funds would be collected and I trust that it won't happen in the future. It sucks for those who were relying on it being at the end of the drop.
jscrub
Jun 8, 2018
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kindjieOr they combine the drops and options in the menu and we save more money... but hey your logic makes sense if you don't want to think too hard about it.
kindjie
118
Jun 8, 2018
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jscrubWhat difference would it make if they put it all on one page rather than separate pages besides having less room for marketing them? Also, wouldn't it just be even more confusing if the breaks and pricing for Laser were combined with the original?
jscrub
Jun 8, 2018
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kindjieI would think there is a benefit to purchasing 1500 units over 750 of each, but apparently not.
kindjie
118
Jun 8, 2018
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jscrubMy understanding is that the price breaks are only for the keycaps, so it wouldn't impact the original's pricing. If you're asking for price breaks on the keyboard itself to be introduced, then I think you're dreaming. Alt is already competitively priced - just look at similar keyboards produced at similar scale. It's also SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than smaller groupbuys.
HerpDerpenberg
288
Jun 9, 2018
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kindjieYep, can't really think of any other keyboard with QMK programming, RGB backlight, RGB underlight, USB-C with USB-C hub built in, machined aluminum case, removable magnetic feet that also allow a negative angle, AND hot swap sockets for this price.
jscrub
Jun 9, 2018
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HerpDerpenbergThese are common components, aluminum, and acrylic. On top of everything they collected the drop funds early to get a beat on the tariffs... Which doesn't make god damn sense when you realize tariffs are not applied to the date of the purchase order but by the shipping company during transfer.
HerpDerpenberg
288
Jun 9, 2018
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jscrubThat's fine if you think that, go find me a keyboard with these features you can buy for less than $140. You won't, it doesn't exist except through Massdrop and their CTRL and ALT keyboard.
HerpDerpenberg
288
Jun 9, 2018
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jscrubMy point exactly. You may think the price on this keyboard is bat shit insane, but it's very reasonable and more affordable than any other option. So, until you can show me that "yet" keyboard, this is the best bang for the buck for all those features.
jscrub
Jun 9, 2018
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kindjieI think that massdrop should offer more, right now they are an online retail outlet with poor customer service and sub-par delivery performance. For instance, I just received the wrong keycap colorway, packaged and sent by massdrop, and now I have to wait for customer service to be terrible.
No doubt @MiTo worked hard, if you had the same opportunity he has in his hands, you would work hard too. The community has enabled his success, we give him our money, he owes more to us than to sell out and use cheap marketing to maximize profit on what amounts to dollars worth of plastic and aluminum and pressurized sand.
No doubt, machining aluminum costs money, setup isn't cheap. The PCBs are costly too, especially with hotswappable pogos, however, at the quantities and the cheap Chinese labor, I think there would be greater savings over time, as massdrop has made the commitment to manufacture this board as a reoccurring item.
Anodizing is dirt cheap. Sending a few extra cases out to have them turned purple and pairing them with a keycap set should not mean they do not share common items with the original ALT. If you are going to commit to making this a reoccurring drop, buy and hold stock, pass the savings to the consumer.
No doubt @MiTo worked hard, if you had the same opportunity he has in his hands, you would work hard too. The community has enabled his success, we give him our money, he owes more to us than to sell out and use cheap marketing to maximize profit on what amounts to dollars worth of plastic and aluminum and pressurized sand.
No doubt, machining aluminum costs money, setup isn't cheap. The PCBs are costly too, especially with hotswappable pogos, however, at the quantities and the cheap Chinese labor, I think there would be greater savings over time, as massdrop has made the commitment to manufacture this board as a reoccurring item.
Anodizing is dirt cheap. Sending a few extra cases out to have them turned purple and pairing them with a keycap set should not mean they do not share common items with the original ALT. If you are going to commit to making this a reoccurring drop, buy and hold stock, pass the savings to the consumer.
kindjie
118
Jun 9, 2018
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jscrubFirst off, Massdrop and @MiTo don't owe you a goddamn thing besides the product you paid fair market value for. @MiTo has already put in WAY more than needed, and he certainly isn't required to listen to an entitled little shit like you throwing personal insults at him. If you can't afford the keyboard, don't buy it. If you can find better value elsewhere, go there instead. If you think you can do better, do it yourself.
Second, if you have a specific issue with Massdrop support, then take it up with support. This isn't the venue. Once the drop has shipped and if you have an issue with your order, you're welcome to discuss it here. My personal experience with Massdrop support has met expectations, and certainly exceeded what I've gotten from sites like Kickstarter, Indiegogo, or independent group buys.
Every post since you insulted @MiTo has been about something else trying to justify your own asshole behaviour. Stop being a brat.
Second, if you have a specific issue with Massdrop support, then take it up with support. This isn't the venue. Once the drop has shipped and if you have an issue with your order, you're welcome to discuss it here. My personal experience with Massdrop support has met expectations, and certainly exceeded what I've gotten from sites like Kickstarter, Indiegogo, or independent group buys.
Every post since you insulted @MiTo has been about something else trying to justify your own asshole behaviour. Stop being a brat.
jscrub
Jun 9, 2018
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kindjieMito is paid for doing what is a dream job... hard work? hardly.
Second, I took up my issue with massdrop support. And you get better delivery than kickstarter because they are promising vaporware, massdrop is an actual company who is delivering real product. If massdrop took your money and did not deliver the product it would be theft.
[moderated]
Second, I took up my issue with massdrop support. And you get better delivery than kickstarter because they are promising vaporware, massdrop is an actual company who is delivering real product. If massdrop took your money and did not deliver the product it would be theft.
[moderated]
kindjie
118
Jun 9, 2018
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jscrubYou took it up with Massdrop support? Great. Anything else you'd like to cry about in a completely unrelated thread, or do you feel like you're done justifying your shitty behaviour to yourself?
jscrub
Jun 9, 2018
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kindjieyou are the one who engaged me bud... is there anything I can help you with?
jscrub
Jun 9, 2018
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[moderated]
kindjie
118
Jun 10, 2018
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jscrubSounds like you're done then. Glad I could help. Take care.
BigEdMustapha
221
Jun 10, 2018
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jscrubGet a life, dude. It's kinda sad this is how you spend your time.
4mechanicalCode2
0
Jun 11, 2018
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YanboWuI had ordered barebones but wanted to alter the order to include caps. Possible?
dvorcol
5375
Keyboard Club Member
Jun 11, 2018
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4mechanicalCode2Before the drop ends, for sure you can cancel your current order and place a new one with all the details the way you now want them. If you paid with PayPal and Massdrop already collected your money there might be some delay for your refund. There may be other ways to change your order, but this one is the safest I know of.
HerpDerpenberg
288
Jun 11, 2018
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dvorcol@4mechanicalCode2 thought you could modify your orders? You'd just go into transactions, click modify order. But as @dvorcol mentioned, if you had been charged, you will have a delay on a refund.
However, if you did PayPal as a payment prior, you NEED to cancel your order. I went through this with one of the keycap-recap sales a while ago. The odd way it works with PayPal is that it sort of "reserves" that price to charge and if at the end of the drop the charge value differs from what you initiated, it will flag it as invalid payment. So for PayPal orders, you need to cancel and re-submit your order to make sure you don't get a payment error at the end.
However, if you did PayPal as a payment prior, you NEED to cancel your order. I went through this with one of the keycap-recap sales a while ago. The odd way it works with PayPal is that it sort of "reserves" that price to charge and if at the end of the drop the charge value differs from what you initiated, it will flag it as invalid payment. So for PayPal orders, you need to cancel and re-submit your order to make sure you don't get a payment error at the end.
dvorcol
5375
Keyboard Club Member
Jun 11, 2018
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HerpDerpenbergIn the past, you were not charged until the drop ended and it was no longer possible to change your order. So revising before Massdrop processed your order made sense. For this drop, since you were charged when you placed your order, I worry about the complications of revisions. Would you be charged in full again (too much)? Or would you find out too late that your revision wasn’t processed? Can anyone say for sure?
HerpDerpenberg
288
Jun 11, 2018
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dvorcolAs long as you cancel and then resubmit your order before the drop ends, you should be fine. If there's a way to go in and revise an existing credit card order, you'll probably be fine and just get charged the difference in the end. Considering I don't know how this is going to work since I've never been on a group buy that charged mid way through (I know the base ALT did an early charge) and you change/edit/cancel your order after you have been charged. Probably the only 100% sure way is to cancel your order and put in a new one. Either way, the refund won't be instant so your order change would look something like this...
Cancel existing order for $X Resubmit new order for $X+$Y for revision Charged $X+$Y if they are still doing instant charges Refund for $X from first order cancel If the charge isn't instant, then you get charged for $X+$Y once the drop ends
Overall, you only get charged once but you're juggling in there an extra charge and refund.
But honestly, your best bet is to just try to talk to Massdrop customer service and they can walk you through your options. That's what I did with the PayPal questions I had on the keycap recap and they told me all the options I had to adjust my order.
Cancel existing order for $X Resubmit new order for $X+$Y for revision Charged $X+$Y if they are still doing instant charges Refund for $X from first order cancel If the charge isn't instant, then you get charged for $X+$Y once the drop ends
Overall, you only get charged once but you're juggling in there an extra charge and refund.
But honestly, your best bet is to just try to talk to Massdrop customer service and they can walk you through your options. That's what I did with the PayPal questions I had on the keycap recap and they told me all the options I had to adjust my order.
dvorcol
5375
Keyboard Club Member
Jun 11, 2018
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HerpDerpenbergI agree, canceling your current order and placing a new one is the safest option.
OldCat
2500
Jun 17, 2018
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YanboWuHey Yanbo, just checking that if I bought 2 Laser Alt, there will be 2 separate $10 coupons issued not just one, right? Thank you.
MiTo
13955
MiTo
Jun 18, 2018
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OldCatYes, I believe there will be two coupons. Did you order them at different times (i.e. ordered two orders)?
If yes then I'm absolutely sure you'll receive two coupons.
If yes then I'm absolutely sure you'll receive two coupons.
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Happy to see we've hit the 500 units of the Laser keycaps. I'm super excited to get these in everyone's hands.
With the recent trade tariffs on various trade goods in the news we are making an attempt to get ahead of the unexpected by purchasing additional units with our just completed ALT order.
In order to do this, we did have to charge everyone that's joined so far. Of course, if you want to cancel, that is available in your transactions and you'll be refunded for your purchase.
My apologies for the confusion and getting this message out late tonight.