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Trending Posts in Mechanical Keyboards
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HoffmanMyster
From Art to Artisan
Before launching any product, there are many designs, concepts, and ideas that pass between teams before arriving at a final design which makes its way to your computer screen and, eventually, desk. This is no more true than when considering possibly the most "art"-forward aspect of the mechanical keyboard hobby—artisan keycaps. It should be obvious that a lot of planning and artistry goes into crafting these literal pieces of art. We don't often get a chance to see behind the curtain, though. So, let's take a closer look at the upcoming Drop + Dwarf Factory Lord of the Rings Rohan Artisan Keycaps. Before any resin is spilled, Middle Earth (the entity that licenses the Lord of the Rings IP) needs to approve the concepts based on concept art provided by Dwarf Factory. We connect with DF to coordinate on the topic and subject matter—in this particular case, additional Rohan-themed designs—to be sure that the concepts match with overall direction, whether that be pairing up with a...
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Ikarianpc
My Kingdom for Smooth ABS SA Keycaps
Every time I build a new keyboard, I go hunting for keycaps. And every time I go hunting, it eventually devolves into a desperate search for SA (or equivalent) profile keycaps with a smooth finish. SA is the ultimate profile, IMHO, and they're relatively hard to come by. Signature Plastics, which is where a lot of SA sets come from like the T0mb3ry SA Carbon set (they might actually hold the trademark on the SA profile if I'm not mistaken), is reportedly going through some management/ownership struggles (last I heard, they're looking for new ownership), and along with apparently the rest of the industry, they seem to be neglecting this superior keycap profile in their own stocks. If you order direct from them, they have a couple themed sets in stock (maybe), but generally you can have any color you want, as long as it's black or white. Drop carries a fair number of MT3 profile sets, which are very similar to SA. But just like SP's SA-P profile, they're made with a different...
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HoffmanMyster
DCX vs DCD vs DCL - Drop’s Keycap Profiles Explained
We’ve covered the basics of keycap profiles before—spherical/cylindrical, sculpted/uniform, etc. One thing that has come up more and more over the years as we’ve expanded our portfolio of offerings here at Drop is the distinction between some of our similar profiles. Specifically, what is the actual difference between DCX, DCD, and DCL? Cylindrical Profiles To recap the previous article on the topic, one of the most basic ways to separate various keycap profiles is by shape (cylindrical, spherical, or flat). DCX, DCD, and DCL are all cylindrical profiles. The most famous cylindrical profile is Cherry profile, as defined by the original manufacturer of the keycaps—Cherry. GMK now owns those tools, and as such, only they can technically claim to produce “Cherry” profile keycaps. Similar keycap profiles are often called Cherry profile colloquially, but are in actuality slightly different. For the sake of not splitting hairs, all of the cylindrical profiles discussed here are...
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I've hinted at these special colorways during the ALT launch and I was really happy with how these samples turned out. I hope this drop can eventually serve as a template for other special sets - there are so many more possibilities out there.
Thank you again to the community for your support and also to Mito for his ever refreshing designs.
By the way - here are all the caps that would ship with the kit if you choose to purchase it.
@omgjlk yes the keycap set with this drop will be designed for the ALT to keep prices inline. Otherwise things can get pretty crazy and we think Laser deserves it's own full re-release at a later date.
If I gave anyone the wrong idea that there may be a full Laser drop any time in the near future, I apologize. Your best bet for Laser without paying aftermarket prices is to get this keyboard.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-mito-laser-alt-keyboard/talk/2082950
Plus the WASD looks LIT!
Do you have a PCB cost? how about an aluminum housing cost? Is there a source you could provide us regarding the aluminum supplier or your PCB supplier that lets us know they are not abusing human rights?
Yours truly, not another stupid sheep who doesn't give a s*** about where my parts come from.
Not that you actually care to know more, but here's a few Youtube series you can use to get a good estimate of the answers for yourself: Top Clack has a series featuring Brandon from Input Club: "Castle Keyboard Design Stream". The Board Podcast has one on designing a little macro pad PCB: "KiCAD Tutorial - FHANv3". Gamer's Nexus talking about their experience manufacturing something for the first time (a simple mod mat): "Manufacturing Detailed: What GN Modmats Taught Us". EEVBlog, AvE, GreatScott!, etc have more information on electronics, materials, and building/manufacturing in general.
Regardless, you blew your chance at being any kind of "activist" with how you approached the conversation. Sorry.
But the board itself might be on a higher point, but Massdrop also put $50,000 into their QMK interface that will work with not just their keyboard, but benefit the entire community. More or less, I see the CTRL and ALT helping to fund that.
For anything, doing some google searches and get good ideas of manufacturing costs of products. You can pretty much estimate the build cost of an ALT keyboard yourself. You can look at typical sites and a 65% PCB that has RGB underglow is $50, this one has hot swap sockets which come out to $1.27 a piece. I'm sure they're getting bulk discounts on these, but even if they're $0.30 a piece and 67 keys on this keyboard, that's still $20 in hot swap sockets alone. Even at that getting them from Kailh direct requires 26000 minimum order quantity to purchase them but we're probably looking at 2000 CTRL + ALT keyboards so they need something like 150,000 of these things ordered. SMD RGB for each keycap on the same numbers are probably some $0.20 a piece and I know this because I just bought 50 SMG RGB to mod a keyboard of mine and have pricing information, so that's $13.40 for the RGBs. Then there's overhead to design, prototype, added assembly etc that you add to the cost. But you're at a PCB that is probably in the $90 range? Throw in a custom made case that needs to be machined out of aluminum for another $50 and you have the price they are charging us.
Bottom line, if you wanted to build this keyboard yourself, you'd be paying a pretty penny and way more than Massdrop is charging us. All in all, we get a good deal because the large quantity Massdrop has gives us a significant savings.
The community talks about positivity and growth but when the rubber meets the road a bunch of you cannot get over your bunched panties because I said some shit you don't like.
So look me up, get offended, but it doesn't take weight from the fact that we just got played.
This drop contains stock from the alt keyboard, this laser drop opened right after the ALT closed, however the LASER will only ship one month off from the ALT... this means the stock being received for build is going to the other, but massdrop is not offering you the savings from the additional laser items.
Rather than jumping on the hype train, I am asking "where is the benefit of massdrop if they do not offer customer service and any drop with actual volume is delivered late"
I understand if you are unable to get over my previous statements of hate, this is the internet, I am not looking for a miracle. Again, there is no harm to me asking the questions, try not to get so offended.
It took 3 hours for my last protest to get a response from massdrop... MiTo took a few days this time around and massdrop is silent. You need to stop trying to defend the corporation who is profiting from the group buy structure.
read it again slowly and figure out why you sound stupid.
Just in case you don't see it, it is stupid to expect a corporation to not make a profit in whatever structure they see fit if you don't like it then don't support the company it is as simple as that.
I don't know what triggered you to start attacking Mito, but it seems to have passed. We just want to grow this community positively so this doesn't turn into a Youtube comment section - don't be surprised when people call you out when you attack an esteemed contributor. By all means, raise issues. Just try to be respectful, and apologize when you make a mistake.
I am defending myself against the same 4 people who are sitting around sniffing farts. If you are hung up on any of the details of my rant, get over your shit, move on and live your life.
You are free. If you do not get the meaning of my post, then you shouldn't be responding. If you do get my meaning but are too confused by a couple of words... then why are you trying to argue. Take the points, move on, don't devote your life to convincing people of your opinion via text.
Again, who are the suppliers, what are the cost of the PCB and aluminum case. This information will only be helpful to the organization. Massdrop does not offer any product more unique than any other group buy (oh but we get the free keycap), but they profit more than any independent person running group buys to help the community.
They have incorporated the group buy model... If you have trouble with these terms, get your head out of your ass and stop trying to act like your farts don't stink.
The irony and stupidity of this statement physically hurts me.
I'm going to ignore you now and hope you just fade away into nothingness for my sake and everyone else who is dying inside from watching you be clueless about everything.
And I am not trying to convince you of anything, you are trying to force me to shut up because you do not like my perspective. I am asking MiTo and massdrop to provide more insight regarding the supplies and suppliers for the drop and why the timing was such to separate the two drops while not providing the volume sales that would come from the two drops combined.
Again, just defending myself against the crack squad (you) who insists their opinion is what everybody should follow.
Any information from massdrop would be appreciated, as apparently @MiTo is unwilling to discuss the topic.
Also after calling Mito a pedo (why would you do that?) and still expect answers from him...really dude?
If you are willing to blindly pay, why not ask a little more of massdrop. If they justify the costs, no loss. I understand if you do not recognize the marketing ploy or do not want greater volume discounts for the total group buy. Please understand if I do want greater volume discounts for the total group buy.
@MiTo please contact me! I have questions about the drop that I cannot ask publicly because your fans are too aggressive!
Again, people should be asking massdrop about why ALT and Laser were split, when it could have been offered together with the same options and given a better price. We do not ask massdrop for information on the parts in the keyboard, and I think it would do everybody good to learn more about massdrop's supplier costs and work conditions for this keyboard.
If MiTo is going to put his name on what is a mass produced item made by a business (not an independent group buy) hopefully he is able to stand behind the price and is using suppliers with appropriate work conditions (not just relying on compliance with international law).
I apologize if you do not agree with my perspective and would appreciate if you stopped trying to create an argument. I have repeated these points ad nauseam, they have not changed since my apology and consequent rebuttal which explained my negative emotions.
I stopped replying to people who were arguing with me in circles, I am sure you will reply with some shit that will continue the circle jerk, but know you should get over your butthurt and stop antagonizing me if you want this discussion to go away.
I am still laughing at that, an internet comment based on pure hyperbole ruining an internet celebrity's life. Jesus you guys are touchy.
def·a·ma·tionˌdefəˈmāSH(ə)n/noun
If you are looking to get your case started here is a good resource I dug up in 2 seconds from google... http://kellywarnerlaw.com/us-defamation-laws/
I understand, it is hard to understand.
If Massdrop hasn't responded to your tantrum yet, what makes you think they will?
Totally dude... totally.
The community suffers from a SJW dynamic. There are a lot of shitty things going on here, but don't use the word pedo, we can point to that one clearly and all jump on the bandwagon, that is an easy target.
After I took my lashings I decided to rebut my comment, elaborating why I felt MiTo was a creep. Why did I feel the need to attack his character? Because fuck you, worse things have been said. Is today the day we draw the line on internet censorship? No, rather, the defenders of MiTo looked me up and personally attacked me, threatened my family, my job, my security, over what amounts to a harmless word. Again, if you cannot handle a hyperbolic statement made on a message board by a guy who was just censored, get teh fuck off teh internet.
@MiTo or @YanboWu I would like information on your supplier work conditions, as well as information on the PCB and aluminum housing cost. I am confused why the LASER drop was split from the ALT when they could have been offered together with the options for LASER in the checkout menu. I think that Massdrop split this purchase to sell more keyboards at a higher margin and disguised the move to keep the price of the keyboard higher than if the drop was a combined 1500 units.
Again @MiTo if you are putting your name on a sales program sponsored by a business (who is profiting greatly from a community driven group buy model) hopefully you can stand behind the labor conditions of the factory producing your components. Hopefully you are not selling out the name MiTo just so massdrop can sell more keyboards.
We all would benefit from the information I request and if you read my argument you would understand my position against massdrop. Stopping in and inserting yourself only restarts the discussion. Thank you for your input though, if you want to reply talking more shit please take the time to summarize my position first. Summarize my position, then present your argument.
I understand you think this is a shit show and that massdrop is just a business who should be free to do what they want, including profit. My position is that massdrop used clever marketing and drop timing to sell an additional 500 keyboards without having to offer any additional volume savings for the group purchase.
My position is that massdrop lacks any customer service and fails to deliver on time for a majority of their popular drops. It is like walmart renting out their shelves to the manufacturer, removing walmart's overhead associated with stocking their own warehouses for distribution. Just as walmart reinvented warhouse shopping, massdrop has created a new business model enabled by internet connectivity, we should take action now to demand more rather than reinforcing the current status quo.
Here we have a company who is acting as the intermediary to the manufacturer but they do not carry stock or have any meaningful customer service to support their wares. Consequently, we are supposed to see savings, however if you browse through a majority of the drops you will notice minimal savings for long delivery times. The model seems to be create drops the organization understands will not be successful, but drives traffic to the site to sell high margin re-occurring drops.
Consequently we have a website driven by media creation and we have an opportunity to get lost in the media in our scramble to get our hands on the coolest new thing on the site. Why was the LASER presented after the ALT variant? Because if you bought a LASER why would you want an ALT... If you bought an ALT and didn't cancel in time you may buy a LASER too.
Again, I understand your position, let massdrop do massdrop. But please understand my position, massdrop could do more for their customers, right now they are bottom of the barrel because most of people on this site do not know the group buy model is about communities, not profiteering.
FFS, just look at how massdrop sorts the categories of things we purchase... by community. They are playing off the dynamic but lining their pockets like any other company would.
> My position is that massdrop used clever marketing and drop timing to sell an additional 500 keyboards without having to offer any additional volume savings for the group purchase.
Geez, a business that profits isn't allowed to market anymore? Wow, who would have known! If you wanted savings, you should have bought in the original Laser GB. End of story. The barebones model is $130, so you're getting the body of a better pok3r. Seems ok to me.
> My position is that massdrop lacks any customer service and fails to deliver on time for a majority of their popular drops.
This is unrelated crap you're talking. You originally wanted to know the materials cost and were talking about cost related stuff only. Now you're bringing in an entirely different argument? Fine, let's talk about delays. You are right for some of them. Massdrop has fucked up plenty of times. Hell, there's that website that records their mess ups. But what about the SA Godspeed GB? That responsibility goes to SP. Laser was delayed because of a colour issue, not because Massdrop couldn't handle it. SA Carbon has legend issues, but Massdrop isn't the manufacturer. Other GBs went smoothly. Most of the smaller ones that come and go went by smoothly. It's like reviews on a website; the negative ones stand out more.
> Why was the LASER presented after the ALT variant? Because if you bought a LASER why would you want an ALT... If you bought an ALT and didn't cancel in time you may buy a LASER too.
Sorry, I don't get what you're saying. The GB for Laser was last November. We're lucky this board is being run with Laser; GMK is a large manufacturer. Imagine going to them and saying 'Yeah hi I want 500 sets of these small 60 keycaps made.' They'll laugh at its tiny magnitude, but they're making it. I feel like this is a project that couldn't have happened if weren't for Massdrop's good relationship with GMK (look up the Mint Dolch story if you want to know). Before you say something, I'm not praising either business. I'm not fond of GMK's pricings, nor do I see Massdrop as an altruistic middle man.
TLDR: You're switching back and forth between different arguments. You're implying that Massdrop (a for profit business) should lower prices for the community. I don't know what to say man. I hope one day you'll look back at this event and see how dumb of an idea it was to argue with internet strangers (very heatedly, I may add) for a few days over the price of a very niche, limited product. I'm not going to respond anymore, so see ya. I also hope anyone else reading this stops this conversation, because half of this comment page is cancer and I can't stand the tone.
I ask you to summarize my points because anybody can take a quote and pick it to pieces. I am applying my meaning to your words, of course there will be conflict.
I want you to summarize my position so I at least understand where you are misguided on my perspective. I summarized your position for this reason.
If you want to continue this thread until the end of time I will do just as you did to me, take some quotes and write nonsense until one person gets bored with the interaction. Rather, I will stick to my original statement and apologize for not reading your last comment. I saw that you started quoting me like every other master of the internet who has butted into this conversation and decided to just skim your points and hit the TLDR.
@MiTo or @YanboWu I would like information on your supplier work conditions, as well as information on the PCB and aluminum housing cost. I am confused why the LASER drop was split from the ALT when they could have been offered together with the options for LASER in the checkout menu. I think that Massdrop split this purchase to sell more keyboards at a higher margin and disguised the move to keep the price of the keyboard higher than if the drop was a combined 1500 units.
Again @MiTo if you are putting your name on a sales program sponsored by a business (who is profiting greatly from a community driven group buy model) hopefully you can stand behind the labor conditions of the factory producing your components. Hopefully you are not selling out the name MiTo just so massdrop can sell more keyboards.
If you get confused during this phase of our discussion, you are pro and I am con. So my point was rebutting the point you introduced a few comments back.
This shit is getting trippy.
Every time you comment on this thread you refresh my effort to the top of the list.
I feel I am not being unreasonable and I appreciate your commitment to keeping my conversation thread fresh.
Edit: for some redundancy type-o's.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-mito-laser-alt-keyboard/talk/2095184?utm_source=linkshare&referer=HNM3Z2
Also, have you thought about cancelling the order (which you apparently just did) and joining in the last day again? At least this way you wouldn't be charged right off the bat and still would obtain the product. I understand how PayPal/CC work so I'm not entirely sure this would make much difference at this point since apparently a transaction already got registered, right? Again I apologize for this and you can rest assured I'll be requesting better communication so such an unpleasant situation can be avoided in the future.
What a god damn joke... why take peoples money early then give advice on the forum as to how to reverse the issue. Seems kind of counter intuitive, what if everybody signed up for the drop on the last day?
I also wanted to say that I'm not happy with this situation and is the first time I've had a major issue with Massdrop and will make me rethink joining future drops.
Also, I don't neeeeeed to post anything.
@YanboWu why would you call in the funds for the orders early when we can cancel our order, get a refund, and sign up for the drop a few days before it closes? You are taking advantage of people to avoid lower margins. If global politics change you should take reduced margin and still honor your commitment to your customer.
Is massdrop insolvent? Do you not have the money in your organization that you have to collect the funds for every drop before you submit your PO to the vendor? That doesn't make sense, how many extra units are you planning to order to account for the add-ons that join after this date of collection? Do you have the money to order extra units?
How do tariffs work? Are they even applied to the date of purchase? Aren't they applied by the carrier during the process of delivery? How does submitting a purchase order early help by any means? If you were collecting early to submit an early PO to get early delivery, hypothetically before the tariffs went into place, how much money are you even going to save compared to the amount of stress you just created for the 500+ people in the drop
@MiTo or @YanboWu I would like information on your supplier work conditions, as well as information on the PCB and aluminum housing cost. I am confused why the LASER drop was split from the ALT when they could have been offered together with the options for LASER in the checkout menu. I think that Massdrop split this purchase to sell more keyboards at a higher margin and disguised the move to keep the price of the keyboard higher than if the drop was a combined 1500 units.
Again @MiTo if you are putting your name on a sales program sponsored by a business (who is profiting greatly from a community driven group buy model) hopefully you can stand behind the labor conditions of the factory producing your components. Hopefully you are not selling out the name MiTo just so massdrop can sell more keyboards.
Shits fucky right now. Thanks for the threat.
Might want to reconsider your life choices and accept that the internet isn't your personal sandbox. It's the worlds :)
Who said the internet has changed? Are you just upset that you've been beaten?
I think you call yourself a snowflake, or something.
You can't just do whatever you want and not face the peoples court and the intention of this forum and drop isn't for people to continuously troll because they have nothing better to do.
Go to 4chan, or reddit.
You're not going to buy the product, we get it.
Speak with your wallet like a true capitalist- or does that contradict your theory of independence and free thinking? lmao.
But real talk, if I'm 16 (I wish) then that puts you far below the legal age limit of signing up for this website.
:D
🕶 👉👉