Drop + MiTo MT3 Godspeed R2 Keycap Set Discussions | Drop

Dec 3, 2018

Why are Ortho kit row profiles 1,2,3,4,5? That doesn't match the standard mods kit row profiles of 0,1,2,3,4,4 and it also doesn't match with the space bars kits which all say R4 row profile. If Ortho kit is actually supposed to be 1,2,3,4,5 then shouldn't the space bar kits be R5? Or at least the 2u spacebars kit should be R5?

Dec 3, 2018

Dec 3, 2018

jacobavenkraftThe Ortho/Ergo kits feature a R5 bottom row, because the community asked and because they felt more comfortable during my tests and simulations with the keycaps. It doesn't match the standard profiles because Ortho has a kit on its own, why it should match with a modifier kit for 60%/TKL etc? Another important thing, the Ortho kit doesn't match with the 2u spacebar kit because that kit is for Ortho users who go Alphas + Apollo/Ares Micons for their Plancks. It is possible to suit a Planck with Micons (maybe even the Preonic) if you use Apollo/Ares Micons instead of the Ortho kits. Example here http://mitormk.com/gmt3renders (scroll down to Micons section)!

Dec 3, 2018

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lifeonadklein

157

Dec 3, 2018

MiToIs there any way to get additional R5 caps? I have an Ergo board coming in with an admittedly unusual layout, I would need 4x1.25u R5 caps to properly fill it out. My plan is to just use 2 novelties kits with R4 1.25u caps but it's unfortunate to hear that will be less comfortable.

Dec 3, 2018

Dec 3, 2018

lifeonadkleinUnfortunately not, kits are locked in, why don't you try the usual 1u bottom row instead of going 1.25u? Of course don't want to tell you what to do, just saying that it will be a bit complicated to have good keycap compatibility (generally speaking) with such an unusual layout. It would be awesome if it was possible to cater to layouts, but there are so many variations... Sadly not doable...

Dec 3, 2018

lifeonadklein

157

Dec 3, 2018

MiToI totally understand, thanks for the quick response!

Dec 3, 2018

Dec 3, 2018

MiTo"...why it should match with a modifier kit for 60%/TKL etc.?" Why would they not match? What is special about Ortho usage scenarios that makes them need a different bottom row profile from 60%/TKL? If R5 is a more comfortable profile for the bottom row on Ortho then I would expect it to also be more comfortable for the bottom row of 60%/TKL. No? It seems like it should be analogous to SA profile where people mostly seem to go for 112343 for 60%/TKL and 12343 for Preonic/Planck. Additionally, having the row profiles match allows the most possibility to mix and match additional kits -- as it stands, Ortho users are more likely to not buy child kits which conflict with an R5 bottom row. Maybe not a huge concern depending on the current Ortho market size, but still a concern nonetheless because it seems to unnecessarily limit the possible buyers for child kits. Please understand that this isn't a criticism of your design decision or me asking you to change it at the last minute. I'm familiar enough with this discussion section to know that designers probably often feel like throwing their hands up because they can't please everyone and no matter what they do there is someone who is unhappy. I am also very aware that the IC is a better place for this kind of discussion (but was there an official IC for this keyset?). I'm just expressing my personal expectation and trying to ask where you were coming from in your design decision.

Dec 3, 2018

Dec 3, 2018

jacobavenkraft> "Why would they not match?" Because like I said previously, the Ortho modifiers has its own kit, designed specifically for the Ortho users, the customers aren't supposed to combine the basic mods such as Apollo Mods with Apollo Ortho. Why would anyone do that, as far as I know basically no Ortho keyboard has 1.25u modifiers for example. There's no reason for the Ortho kits to match other modifier kits, only the Novelties (if you count novelties as Modifiers) and there's a pair of R5 logos there, etc. > "I would expect it to also be more comfortable for the bottom row of 60%/TKL. No? " No, because the majority of the Ortho keyboards (unlike 60/TKLs) have a 0 degree inclination for the case, which causes, for some people, in theory, a slight lack of comfort when using R4 keycaps on the bottom row. Nearly all keyboards like 40% up to 104 are angled, so for those the R4 is better (in my opinion/community overall opinion). Ortho has a R5 bottom row because popular keyboards like the Planck and Preonic have cases sitting flat to the desk. In essence, other than Novelties, there's no reason for any Ortho customer to buy any other kit on top of Alphas/Ortho. The keycaps wouldn't even fit in their keyboards which mostly use 1us. > "Please understand that this isn't a criticism of your design decision or me asking you to change it at the last minute." I receive all sorts of messages and feedback and enjoy them all, it's chance for me to improve. I give ears to everyone, so don't worry I'm not irked or anything by your comments. > "But was there an official IC for this keyset?" Yes, I received close to 700 e-mails, hundreds (maybe thousands) of messages on Reddit/Instagram not to mention the discussion you see here which lasted for 5 weeks. https://www.massdrop.com/talk/10479/godspeed-mt-3-pbt I am confident you didn't participate in the IC at all because you weren't using these channels, my advice is for you to please go ahead and subscribe to my newsletter (I am anti-flood, don't worry, only sent like 5 mails in 4 years) so you won't miss the timelines! Also check my blog in which I progressively updated the project every week: http://mitormk.com

Dec 3, 2018

Dec 3, 2018

MiToI have bought TKL mods to use in combination with Ortho kits many times. The reasons for doing this are

Mod kits often come with proper legends for 1u Ctrl, Alt, Super, Hyper, etc. whereas Ortho kits are split nowadays on whether they use proper legends or meaningless "assembly-style" legends or blanks
Mod kits often come with both text and arrows direction keys whereas Ortho kits usually only come with one or the other. Additionally, Ortho kits often assume a single-row set of direction keys whereas I prefer a standard arrow cluster with the up-arrow one row above the down-arrow (this gives me an additional available layer key on my bottom row and preserves my d-pad muscle memory) -- I originally got this idea from a layout on Reddit and have since seen many other ortho pics with something similar.
Mod kits often come with mod-colored Tilde as an option and mod-colored Double-quote as an option where sometimes Ortho kits don't.

I know that not all of these reasons apply to a set like Godspeed, plus for Godspeed I'm not as interested in proper mod legends as I would prefer the novelty mission control style text legends or micons. I am sorry that I was not aware of the IC. I was aware of the Massdrop discussion you linked and of your project page, but the main picture of the keycap profile only shows 012344 so I missed the fact that Ortho used a different profile. To be clear, I actually do prefer the profile you chose for your Ortho kit and I agree that is it more comfortable. if I had been aware of the IC then the only suggestion I would have made is for a few more R5 novelties and R5 arrows in the arrows kit, because the only option for Ortho users to use arrows is for them to piece together something using the standard TKL mod kits and novelties.

Dec 3, 2018

Dec 3, 2018

jacobavenkraftThank you for the 1/2/3 explanations those are interesting especially if you take into consideration a project with regular legends such as Pulse SA for example right? Here the legends are abstract so you aren't inclined to "complete" your Ortho look with other kits, correct?

Dec 3, 2018

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Dec 4, 2018

MiToYou are correct, that is one of the things I really enjoy about this colorway -- the unique legends that fit with the theme. I just will kinda miss my arrows.

Dec 4, 2018