Click to view our Accessibility Statement or contact us with accessibility-related questions
Showing 1 of 400 conversations about:
Orac
202
May 23, 2017
bookmark_border
Nickk
190
May 23, 2017
bookmark_border
OracFor a 60% people have been getting away with icon mods + Cyrillic + spacebars. I do think it was a bit of an oversight to not just offer a separate Cyrillic base kit though, as that probably would have made more sense for most.
There's not much you can do now though. In the future you can influence how the set will be by expressing your ideas/concerns about the set at the interest check stage.
There's not much you can do now though. In the future you can influence how the set will be by expressing your ideas/concerns about the set at the interest check stage.
Orac
202
May 23, 2017
bookmark_border
NickkThanks. I found Yuri too late, but I have read through some of the old discussions and it does seem like a strange oversight, especially after comparing against some of the other keycap drops which look like they are (or were) easier to mix and match sub kits as needed.
I have TKL so there is no way to do it without the base unfortunately.
I have TKL so there is no way to do it without the base unfortunately.
T0mb3ry
2136
T0mb3ry
May 23, 2017
bookmark_border
OracIt is not an oversight. It was done intentional to guarantee the base kit is tipping. Base kit is the major goal everything else is optional. Keep in mind i can not foresee how the drop will go and thus the whole design is build around base kit. Base kit is that the majority want.
Now imagine i would offer one latin full set (250 moq) and one cyrillic full (250 moq) set. The drop goes bad and i got only 250 participants splitted between cyrillic and latin base set. In this case nobody will get anything. In current case the lating base kit has more chances to become reality.
TLDR: this is the way you handle unproven keysets/designs and Yuri was never done before. You cant properly predict how it will sell...
Also this is a GMK keyset and you should not compare it with sets done by Signature Plastics. The MOQ is different and is the main reason why the kits are build this way.
Now imagine i would offer one latin full set (250 moq) and one cyrillic full (250 moq) set. The drop goes bad and i got only 250 participants splitted between cyrillic and latin base set. In this case nobody will get anything. In current case the lating base kit has more chances to become reality.
TLDR: this is the way you handle unproven keysets/designs and Yuri was never done before. You cant properly predict how it will sell...
Also this is a GMK keyset and you should not compare it with sets done by Signature Plastics. The MOQ is different and is the main reason why the kits are build this way.
Orac
202
May 23, 2017
bookmark_border
T0mb3ryThank you for the explanation. Regardless of any other issues, Yuri is one of the nicest looking keycap sets I've seen, so well done on the theme and design :)
If it's too late to add new kit options this time around, do you foresee that Yuri might be run again at some point?
May I also ask another follow up question since you have the inside knowledge: why do you need 250 to meet MOQ for the base kit, but only 100 to met MOQ for the additional items? Do GMK insist the base kits have to be defined this way? It seems an arbitrary and inconsistent requirement, but perhaps there is some reason not obvious looking from the outside...
Would GMK accept a future drop being run with the possibility of base kits being built from:
Alphas option A Alphas option B Modifiers option X Modifiers option Y
So buyers might choose from: A+X, A+Y, B+X or B+Y as they prefer for the base kit, but the buyer's choice would be required to contain at least one set of alphas + one set of modifiers. Or would that still result in GMK requiring 250 MOQ for each option?
As I've written down A+X, A+Y, B+X or B+Y, I then also wonder if the novelties be included into such modifier kits? I'm not sure without doing some maths.
In any case, the main issue is the GMK way makes the choice all or nothing which is very frustrating.
If it's too late to add new kit options this time around, do you foresee that Yuri might be run again at some point?
May I also ask another follow up question since you have the inside knowledge: why do you need 250 to meet MOQ for the base kit, but only 100 to met MOQ for the additional items? Do GMK insist the base kits have to be defined this way? It seems an arbitrary and inconsistent requirement, but perhaps there is some reason not obvious looking from the outside...
Would GMK accept a future drop being run with the possibility of base kits being built from:
Alphas option A Alphas option B Modifiers option X Modifiers option Y
So buyers might choose from: A+X, A+Y, B+X or B+Y as they prefer for the base kit, but the buyer's choice would be required to contain at least one set of alphas + one set of modifiers. Or would that still result in GMK requiring 250 MOQ for each option?
As I've written down A+X, A+Y, B+X or B+Y, I then also wonder if the novelties be included into such modifier kits? I'm not sure without doing some maths.
In any case, the main issue is the GMK way makes the choice all or nothing which is very frustrating.
T0mb3ry
2136
T0mb3ry
May 24, 2017
bookmark_border
OracThanks for the kind words :)
Yuri can drop again but i am not responsible for the drop planning. In that regard i cant give exact prognose. And yes its too late to make any changes rightnow.
The MOQ is based on the fact, that the machines (which produces the keycaps) need to be prepared and that takes several hours. Same counts after the work is done. Also it must be worth (with other different factors) for the Company to do that. Thus the MOQ. The MOQ of 100 is something special that GMK is doing extra for community and usually the MOQ is 150. So kudos to GMK for lowering the MOQ for us!
The case with several base kits can only work with already proven and popular keysets. And yes everything is possible as long as peope pay and MOQ is reached ;)
And its not frustrating. GMK is a company and they need to make money like any other company. Their product their rules. Keep in mind they are giving already very good conditions for the community keysets.
Yuri can drop again but i am not responsible for the drop planning. In that regard i cant give exact prognose. And yes its too late to make any changes rightnow.
The MOQ is based on the fact, that the machines (which produces the keycaps) need to be prepared and that takes several hours. Same counts after the work is done. Also it must be worth (with other different factors) for the Company to do that. Thus the MOQ. The MOQ of 100 is something special that GMK is doing extra for community and usually the MOQ is 150. So kudos to GMK for lowering the MOQ for us!
The case with several base kits can only work with already proven and popular keysets. And yes everything is possible as long as peope pay and MOQ is reached ;)
And its not frustrating. GMK is a company and they need to make money like any other company. Their product their rules. Keep in mind they are giving already very good conditions for the community keysets.
Orac
202
May 24, 2017
bookmark_border
T0mb3ryre this being frustrating: it's the price to the customer that matters, the cost to manufacture is irrelevant to the purchase decision.
A few people within the mech keyboard community will understand the MOQ cost problem and buy anyway. Others (like me) can understand the MOQ problem and still feel the price is not good value or is simply unaffordable. Outside of the mech community, nobody cares about or is interested in obstacles to production. The only thing that matters:
"Is this thing worth $/€/£ for my time or usage?"
With the best will in the world: overwhelmingly people are looking at these keycaps and pretty much always recoiling at the price because they're "'merely' small pieces of plastic." A custom set can look spectacular but the apparent value is terrible vs say a complete new keyboard or good graphics card. It's like designer dresses and bags that are many hundreds or thousands of dollars: most people won't buy them, even if they can afford it. The (lack of) language kits amplify this problem to levels of outright hostility. I am certain that >90% of people will look at the few keys they would actually need from the Int kit, then look at the price and tell you to "go forth and multiply."
Unless something substantial changes, the custom keycap kits will continue to face the same problem of scratching around just trying to make enough sales to meet the MOQ. I think we can all accept that GMK will never be able to lower their machine costs, that can only ever go up with inflation. Therefore the only way to lower the price is to sell more. A lot more.
To sell more you must first lower the price and barrier to entry, and make sure your potential buyers know that you've done so. Pretty much impossible inside this bubble that is a couple of internet forums and the Massdrop platform, it's niche within a niche within a niche within a niche. As a designer there is only so much you can achieve to make the kits desirable, the rest is up to Massdrop to find wider marketing, advertising and partnership opportunities.
A few people within the mech keyboard community will understand the MOQ cost problem and buy anyway. Others (like me) can understand the MOQ problem and still feel the price is not good value or is simply unaffordable. Outside of the mech community, nobody cares about or is interested in obstacles to production. The only thing that matters:
"Is this thing worth $/€/£ for my time or usage?"
With the best will in the world: overwhelmingly people are looking at these keycaps and pretty much always recoiling at the price because they're "'merely' small pieces of plastic." A custom set can look spectacular but the apparent value is terrible vs say a complete new keyboard or good graphics card. It's like designer dresses and bags that are many hundreds or thousands of dollars: most people won't buy them, even if they can afford it. The (lack of) language kits amplify this problem to levels of outright hostility. I am certain that >90% of people will look at the few keys they would actually need from the Int kit, then look at the price and tell you to "go forth and multiply."
Unless something substantial changes, the custom keycap kits will continue to face the same problem of scratching around just trying to make enough sales to meet the MOQ. I think we can all accept that GMK will never be able to lower their machine costs, that can only ever go up with inflation. Therefore the only way to lower the price is to sell more. A lot more.
To sell more you must first lower the price and barrier to entry, and make sure your potential buyers know that you've done so. Pretty much impossible inside this bubble that is a couple of internet forums and the Massdrop platform, it's niche within a niche within a niche within a niche. As a designer there is only so much you can achieve to make the kits desirable, the rest is up to Massdrop to find wider marketing, advertising and partnership opportunities.
OracleKev
245
May 26, 2017
bookmark_border
T0mb3ryTOmb3ry, there are a lot of "asks" for cheap pricing and mass production.
Just to balance things out, my ask is ignore them.
I buy designer GMK key caps because it is one of a kind. If it's mass produced and everyone can get it, I'm not interested. I also buy this stuff because I know there are barriers to producing these cheaper at this scale. In another words, I'm not going to sync in $$$ if I believe that the price will fall next year. I will just wait. I'm pretty sure the price will not go down next year since there is big gap between here and mass production scale.
I buy designer GMK key caps because it is one of a kind. If it's mass produced and everyone can get it, I'm not interested. I also buy this stuff because I know there are barriers to producing these cheaper at this scale. In another words, I'm not going to sync in $$$ if I believe that the price will fall next year. I will just wait. I'm pretty sure the price will not go down next year since there is big gap between here and mass production scale.
Related Products
Drop Refurbished
Like-new products you can trustDrop Rewards
Get $5 for every 500 points you earn! Learn more
Drop Keyboard Club
Become a member and expand your keycap collectionCollaborate With Us
For Brands & DesignersFollow Drop
Maybe someone from Massdrop or T0mb3ry can answer: even if it would end up slightly more expensive than the vanilla base kit, why is there no complete kit with the Cyrillic and Icons as an alternative to the base? I thought I read somewhere that there was a concern that Cyrillic wouldn't reach the minimum order quantity? yet the structure of the drop places it out of reach for many of us.
Being forced to buy the base kit + Cyrillic and Icons as add ons pushes the overall price too high (way too high once tax is added) and settling for the base kit alone feels like a very expensive second best. I don't know if the aim was to persuade buyers to spend more, but I'm more likely to buy nothing at all because of this.
Thanks.