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Showing 1 of 264 conversations about:
MoonStan
220
Sep 28, 2018
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planb10113
352
Sep 28, 2018
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MoonStanPlease share any response you get. I'm with you on claiming this as false advertising. I think a call to the Better Business Bureau may be in order.
massdrop01
783
Sep 28, 2018
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MoonStanYou should post this on the Ochs drop as "saw that coming" post inb4 all the studio lightning and other BS get thrown there too
JonasHeineman
5987
Sep 29, 2018
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MoonStanHey Stan,
I get that you're upset but I am afraid I will have to disappoint you again here - there is no deception or grand conspiracy at work here. I can understand trying to make a connection, but you're making an incorrect assumption about unrelated prototypes of a different design, made by a different manufacturer. That being said, we are taking the CTF situation into account as we reassess our QC process to avoid this in the future.
I think I see what you're pointing to with the Orca thumbstuds, and I will ask our creative team to take a look. It is the case that all of the photos on every drop page (and pretty much every website) get some level of retouching. I am posting below two unedited snapshots that I just took with my iPhone showing both of the Orca prototypes that you're referring to.
Orca prototypes in direct sunlight (above) and indirect/office light (below):
I hope that helps to address your concerns. We're not always perfect, but we're also not out to swindle anyone. If we did something to make you or anyone feel that way, then I take responsibility for addressing it head on and learning from our mistakes. Thanks for voicing your concerns, we'll keep trying ever harder.
I get that you're upset but I am afraid I will have to disappoint you again here - there is no deception or grand conspiracy at work here. I can understand trying to make a connection, but you're making an incorrect assumption about unrelated prototypes of a different design, made by a different manufacturer. That being said, we are taking the CTF situation into account as we reassess our QC process to avoid this in the future.
I think I see what you're pointing to with the Orca thumbstuds, and I will ask our creative team to take a look. It is the case that all of the photos on every drop page (and pretty much every website) get some level of retouching. I am posting below two unedited snapshots that I just took with my iPhone showing both of the Orca prototypes that you're referring to.
Orca prototypes in direct sunlight (above) and indirect/office light (below):
I hope that helps to address your concerns. We're not always perfect, but we're also not out to swindle anyone. If we did something to make you or anyone feel that way, then I take responsibility for addressing it head on and learning from our mistakes. Thanks for voicing your concerns, we'll keep trying ever harder.
MoonStan
220
Sep 29, 2018
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JonasHeinemanGood lord. At last, a reply that's not damage control/corporate bs !
Thank you.
By the way => I do not taste your usage of the word "conspiracy" very much as to, not so subtly, imply that I'm a nut ! (we all know that in the current officially sanctioned collective consciousness : "conspiracy theorist" = nutjob, right?)
Of course, these are different designs, different everything... but why shouldn't I be worried when I notice on the Orca drop, the same quirks that we've all discussed for the CTF here? I don't think that this is "conspiracy thinking " to suspect some intentional deception when you see the same pattern repeating itself, especially on "different product with different designs, different manufacturer etc".
Ok then, I'll edit my posts to point out towards your reply .
ALWAYS come clear before anything else.
Thanks for your time
By the way => I do not taste your usage of the word "conspiracy" very much as to, not so subtly, imply that I'm a nut ! (we all know that in the current officially sanctioned collective consciousness : "conspiracy theorist" = nutjob, right?)
Of course, these are different designs, different everything... but why shouldn't I be worried when I notice on the Orca drop, the same quirks that we've all discussed for the CTF here? I don't think that this is "conspiracy thinking " to suspect some intentional deception when you see the same pattern repeating itself, especially on "different product with different designs, different manufacturer etc".
Ok then, I'll edit my posts to point out towards your reply .
ALWAYS come clear before anything else.
Thanks for your time
JonasHeineman
5987
Sep 29, 2018
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MoonStanThanks for the reply. Certainly didn't mean to imply that you're a nut - I don't think it's totally unreasonable to be suspicious if you see inconsistencies, and I'm happy to be as transparent as possible about the whole process to alleviate concerns like this. It is true that a few knives have had issues, some affecting the whole batch and some just with isolated units - but I hope the larger pattern people see is that generally, Massdrop is delivering product that are as good as or better than advertised. Almost all the knife drops with more than a handful of reviews have 4- or 5-star average ratings from members. That doesn't mean they are all perfect, or that anyone's concerns are invalid. I take the accusations of lying or deception to heart, because I'm personally invested in this community and every product we make. Like I said - if anyone thinks we're trying to pull a fast one, then I look very hard at what we did and said to give that impression. Even if we were behaving honestly, any impression to the contrary makes it harder to build this community. When members put up hard-earned cash and wait sometimes six months for them to ship, I don't take that lightly. You are the only reason that collabs like this are possible, and we rely on your trust that we're doing business in good faith. Trust is hard to re-earn, but I appreciate your honest dialog and giving us an opportunity to prove that we're worth putting your faith in.
its_clean
90
Sep 29, 2018
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JonasHeinemanJonas, this is the most honest response I've seen from you yet, and that is worth more than a little appreciation. The disappointment and anger directed either explicitly or implicitly towards you, even if justified, is a lot for any person to bear and I can empathize with how difficult things may be for you right now. As frustrated as I may be with the knife I received, and with whatever responsibility you had for the result, I can sense your passion for our hobby and our community and you have my respect for that.
If you could answer one more question to set my mind at ease: did there ever exist, at any point, an actual satin-brushed bronze-anodized pivot screw as shown in the original photos? Just looking for a yes or no.
I take Bob at his word when he confirmed in his Instagram video that the dark stonewash was his original intention. I've also seen the prototype with the satin-brushed silver-toned pivot screw from your Instagram. I presume that screw was still in the white and not yet finished. It's been strongly suggested that the photos of the brushed bronze pivot screw were nothing more than that same unfinished silver screw Photoshopped to look bronze, and perhaps an actual screw in that color with that finish was never made and never existed. Is this true? Again, just a yes or no is enough.
If you could answer one more question to set my mind at ease: did there ever exist, at any point, an actual satin-brushed bronze-anodized pivot screw as shown in the original photos? Just looking for a yes or no.
I take Bob at his word when he confirmed in his Instagram video that the dark stonewash was his original intention. I've also seen the prototype with the satin-brushed silver-toned pivot screw from your Instagram. I presume that screw was still in the white and not yet finished. It's been strongly suggested that the photos of the brushed bronze pivot screw were nothing more than that same unfinished silver screw Photoshopped to look bronze, and perhaps an actual screw in that color with that finish was never made and never existed. Is this true? Again, just a yes or no is enough.
harveyfnj
83
Sep 29, 2018
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JonasHeinemanReally? Take a good look at your seriously botched Apogee/massdrop collaboration.
awk
1600
Sep 29, 2018
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JonasHeinemanNot just specific to this drop, but I appreciate the phone pics. They can be more useful than the high-quality, uniformly-lit, context-free product photos that Massdrop is fond of using. The professional product photos look nice but there's no size reference and they almost always make things look lighter than reality (or at least typical indoor lighting).
harveyfnj
83
Oct 13, 2018
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JonasHeinemanReally? Take a good look comments and reviews from Apogee/MASSDROP. Great, after several months of dissembling and obfuscation you finally got a metallurgical test for the blade. Puzzling, that you did NOT release a Rockwell test for blade hardness. If you knew how to be honest you would have less difficulty keeping your stories straight.
MoonStan
220
Oct 13, 2018
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harveyfnjHm? Interesting. Can you elaborate or link to said issues?
harveyfnj
83
Oct 13, 2018
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MoonStanGo to the first Apogee - massdrop collaboration (chef's knife), read discission threads and reviews.
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=> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-terzuola-compact-tactical-folder/talk/2215698?utm_source=linkshare&referer=ZDBPRQ
Guys, look at this , from the Eric Ochs Orca Drop and now understand that this is what happened to our CTFs as well:
Oooh super shiny
Ah yes, less shiny, very nice tho
Huh what? Thumbstud is gray?
Oh and now it's gold/bronze again!
Hu oh, looks like someone failed to properly photoshop the thumbstud as there is a bit of gray metal still visible up there(bigger view here : https://i.imgur.com/1DXk1qW.jpg)
Bronze.?
Nah, bare metal! and notice both of these knives are designed "LOO1", same for the other "W001"
Are Mr. Terzuola and Mr. Ochs aware of this? Did they give their approval to misrepresent their designs like this and potentially tarnish their names by associating with disloyal business techniques?
Massdrop CEO: steve.elhage@massdrop.com