Which headphones of Drop's currently available?
I have some rewards points to burn but there's no obviously good options on Drop right now for headphones Contenders Ultrasone - maybe? I don't own any Ultrasones, so curious. Looks like garbage travel headphone which could be useful also. Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro. - Maybe? I have the DT 880 Good price point, really uncomfortable headphones but could be interesting to try the upgraded version. E-MU - strong contender but $400 is a bad price point for what it is. Which of the above would you choose and why? Nothing else on Drop is relevant to my interests, because Already own 6xx 820 800 s Ether cx Garbage / Consumer grade Meze 99 - garbage bass canons, hard pass No gaming headphones obviously Sennheiser wireless - no to wireless/bluetooth Hifiman - I have 2 of drop hifimans and they make really bad cheap shit on Drop, hard pass on HE-R7DX Aeon - I own the closed, Drop refuses to address #padgate so no reason to buy open Beyerdynamic 177x - wireless, nope Too similar 8x / 560s...
Mar 28, 2024
As for the second question, no one can honestly tell you whether it will be a major step up, because even though it measures better than just about every other amp, 1) almost no independent parties have heard it (not that big an issue for dyed-in-the-wool objectivists), and 2) realistically, most amps from mediocre on up should be nearly identical in subjective performance to this one in blind tests, so that 3) it will depend a lot on how you feel about it (some of it unconsciously).
" If anything, D-S measures better for significantly less cost. I have not seen any "tests" that show what you say besides ordinary sighted listening impressions (and what objectivist even talks about amp/dac pairings anyway?). "
Interesting, as there are tests and measurements that would state otherwise: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/modi-mb-technical-measurements.817404/.
And here's with the Modi/Magni Stack: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/measurements-mid-fi-dac-amp-comb-units-grace-schiit-ifi-lh-jds-etc.427/.
And let's not forget the Bifrost MB: https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-bifrost-da-processor-measurements.
Again, more about DAC measurements with Schiit MB and other MB hybrids: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/measuring-dac-accuracy.4184/page-2.
Enough "objective measurements" for you?
Also, it would be great and provide measurements for the DS dacs in this price range that perform better. I would love to see them.
But, back to my original point that you seem to have ignored, what delta sigma DACs, in this price point, are going to be any of the Schiit MB offerings? Please, provide measurements so we can keep this 'objective'.
I'm also kind of weirded out AtomicBob's measurement of THD. The signal is at -60dBFS, noise floor is at -125dBFS, and there are clearly harmonic peaks at around -105dBFS. So where does the -91dB for THD come from? He is clearly much more knowledgeable about audio electronics than I am, but I guess the graph is saying something I'm not appreciating. Also, AtomicBob's Bifrost measurement of -70dBFS sine wave looks just like Amir's graph of the same, with the bizarre glitches at zero crossings. He places no significance on them (they aren't audible), but they still shouldn't be there.
Edit: oh hey, that crossover distortion is also there in John Atkinson's measurements of the Yggdrasil (not multibit, obviously, since it's a 24bit signal). I guess it's part of their house sound.
If you read through the DAC measurement thread I posted (it's only 4 or 5 pages and an educational read) they discuss these 'glitches' and even show similar behavior on some other DACs and how they act when fed a different wave or bits. I even found the 'warm up' time interesting as I normally dismiss that as BS unless it's a tube.
My only point was you made a big deal about this discussion not being 'objective' when you were the one being completely subjective. You made a grand statement, and despite my asking, have still yet been unable to provide the 'objective' proof about delta sigma DACs, in this price point, being superior.
And for what it's worth, I agree with you. I don't care about the measurements that have no impact on what I can perceptibly hear. You complaining about Schiit DACs having this problem is what's misleading. I have provided multiple sources (I can provide even more) that state for the dollar, they are hard to be beat and are a great value. If you're that concerned about USB noise, get a purifier. I'm not saying they're perfect but they surely don't have the problems you're saying they do (for the MB Schiit DACs).
Amir's rig is still working fine. It still measures non-Schiit dacs as doing what they're supposed to and Schiit dacs as being especially susceptible to line noise/jitter (he's now measured the modi 2, bimby, and yggy). He just posted measurements of the Topping D50 and Bryston BDA-2, both of which did very well. Comparative measurements look roughly inline with Archimago's for the dragonfly and idea.
But I'm getting off-track here. Let's look at John Atkinson's yggy measurements (I can't get to SBAF at the moment, and I trust Atkinson knows what he's doing). I know it's not MB, but let us just assume for the moment that the yggy measures at least as good as the mimby. Both THD and IMD are -90 to -100dBFS. Noise floor is -130 to -135dBFS. Jitter rejection is disappointing, though not bad by any means. The $250 Topping D50 nominally has THD -106dB across the audible band. In the past, they have backed this up with results from their audio analyzer, so I assume this will continue once it's actually released. In the meantime, Amir has measurements that support this claim. His measurements also show IMD is -99 to -104dB for input signals -10dBFS or louder. Nominal SNR is 122dB, though it looks a bit better in Amir's measurements (comparable to the yggy). Jitter rejection is excellent. Just based off of this, and assuming that the mimby only measures as good as the yggy, I would argue the D50 is probably the better value. The SMSL M8A is probably in the same ballpark for somewhat less coin (Amir has one on order from Massdrop, so I guess we'll see).
As for picking up a purifier, I don't see the point. $50-$100 on a <$250 dac kind of kills the deal, no? Especially when it's so easy to find dacs that don't need them.
We get it, you have Topping gear and are their fanboy. Personally, I prefer iFi over most others especially their Pro line, but don't want to spend that much just for a $350 amp. But you don't see me acting like some frothing idiot because I have a random agenda against some other company.
And if you think JA is poorly measuring devices then you're definitely drinking the Kool-Aid. Even the engineer from Schiit spoke up about some of the issues and changes with the Yggy and discussed why thigns were the way they were and why it was implemented as such. I don't understand how it doesn't get more transparent than that.
Seems to me, you need to read more instead of bashing without any objective evidence.
When the Schiit Yggdrasil was measured it didn't measure well, but some results were omitted vs what was posted for other products. Now that Amir measures the same product, the omitted results happened to be results which really measured poorly.
Its not hard to add 1+1 or 2+2, if you cannot draw the conclusion here then you are lost.
I'm no Topping fanboy, I believe in objective measurements and so far this is just one of the companies making affordable products that are built on an analyzer to perform to their claims.
Schiit products on the other hand are built using obviously nothing at all (and if they are built using an analyzer then they are introducing bugs on purpose to create audible "upgrades" for each of their tiers of devices).
So again, what results were omitted? Where is the proof of this? As stated and discussed above, John Atkinson as well as several others have measurements that are available.
Again, John Atkinson took measurements and they are far from the claim of 'Schiit products measure badly': http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/borked-measurements-multibit-schiit-dacs.5786/page-3.
So I ask of you, where is your objective proof for the your claims of Schiit being so bad and ALL of the topping devices you listed? And I'm sure you can find other measurements for Topping gear outside of AudioScienceReview as I sure as hell can't and would love to see them myself. That's why I didn't recommend anything by iFi since I couldn't find all the measurements for their dedicated DACs and didn't want to recommend their dac/amp combos.
Everything you've said thus far is pure conjecture.
Linking me nonsense posted by professional liars and scam artists... Doesn't back up their claims as they are directly profiting from deceiving you.
And yet again, I linked to Bob discussing said measurements. So again it seems you're just regurgitating what you read on SAR instead of yourself being objective.
And to call John Atkinson a liar and a scammer is quite the feat. You really do just sound like a hater.
Edit: And I forgot to note, the Yggy measurements for Amirm, Bob, and John Atkinson are all relative close and match. So objectively, if you have a problem with Bob, it's personal and has nothing to do with the actual data.
Funny how nobody questioned his measurements until Amir came along and now everyone wants to know Amir's setup and tries to fault his process, never questioning the ghetto way in which AtomicBob has done measurements from the past years? Audio is so subjective that its pathetic, people will defend garbage and discard quality.
I never called John Atkinson a liar and a scammer, I mean Mike Moffat and Jason from Schiit. They have both profited immensely off of their now-exposed scam and anything that they "discuss" is purely an attempt to save their sinking ship of "schiit".
As far as posting the measurements I received with my Topping products... it requires me to find the boxes, scan the papers in the boxes and upload them. I will do it but a CBA to find all the boxes to show the measurements today. Attached is a scan of a row of measurements, provided with the DX7... The dates are from the unit being tested when it passes QC.
I know you seem to have Bob but thing is his measurements for various things have matched others such as Atkinson and Amirm so to call his in particular misleading would be to call all of them misleading which isn't the case. You may not like his commentary, review, or plain ignorance of certain information but his measurements have mirrored others and manufacturers. Again, I don't know the guy or care either way, just being objective and sharing measurements from various sources.
I'm admittedly an iFi fanboy and I couldn't care less what their measurements are. Their gear sounds good, is portable, and scales well with my current IEMs and headphones. The only thing that matters at the end of the day.
Because it can't even beat the D30... seriously. The CMA400i is from another company with BS specs as they claim specs higher than what the chips they build with are capable of LOL
I would be willing to bet you cannot ABX test your yggy's "Detail and musicality"
When I said "sounds like garbage" i wasn't referring specifically to the Yggy because I haven't listened to one, I was referring to the Fulla2 and Modi Multibit because those are the two models I have owned and listened to in confidence. I personally thought both sounded horrible and lacked detail before I even had the experience I have today or before any measurements were out.... The Fulla2 sounded worse than my laptops headphone jack lol
"Listening at a meetup I find is the worst way to really test gear if you aren't experienced in knowing which songs and platform you will test on. "
Nope, I did all my listening tests using my Samsung Galaxy S3 (Lineage OS 14.1) and Spotify Premium. I listened to my fav songs, so I know what I was listening to. Its not like I was going to a Sennheiser Orpheus audition session where they only allow you to listen to their selected tracks, and only for 15 min.