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Zero2Cool
40
Jul 2, 2017
i'm missing the °^ (R1) in the Norde Kit. Its possible to add this key?
EDIT: for full ISO-DE the Norde Kits also needed the Q@ and E€
Orac
202
Jul 2, 2017
Zero2CoolOne of goals for the set was low price, and the Norde kit is supposed to be only the most important keys for those languages. Pretty sure you won't get any others, see the IC on geekhack for more discussion about it.
Zero2Cool
40
Jul 2, 2017
OracThe last GMK sets has a international addon with ALL keys. Q@ and E€ isn't so important, but the °^ should be in this NorDE addon.
Zero2CoolBut this set costs $37 instead of $57 and last time these kits are far from hitting MOQ. This is a new approach to the problem which offers an affordable solution while keeping a good compatibility.
Orac
202
Jul 2, 2017
Zero2CoolI can't make the case for or against any of those specific keys, but the Yuri NordeUK set was $58 and is only being made because GMK and Massdrop have been gracious enough to cover it. Nautilus Norde is only $38 and perhaps has a better chance to attract more buyers to and maybe reach a price break.
I've been arguing this frequently: with over 500 million people in Europe, something is wrong that the ISO and language kits do not sell. The price, imho, is the primary culprit, and unwillingness of people to buy dozens of extremely expensive keys that they don't need (the worst case being UK buyers expected to subsidize a 40-50 key set when they only need 3-4.)
Zambumon's kit selections may not be 'perfect' but every single product of any kind is a series of major and minor compromises. Zambumon chose a different approach to Tomb3ry and you can argue hypothetically which is better, but they're just different compromises.
If the Nautilus Norde kit sells proportionally more than Yuri NordeUK when compared against their respective base kits I will see that as something to be optimistic about for future sets. We all want more interest and sales in Europe so that the cost can eventually come down, then maybe we can start seeing more extensive language coverage.
Zero2Cool
40
Jul 2, 2017
ZambumonBut i would buy a base set + $57 addon if all keys are in. So i can't buy. And why should a norde kit with missing keys for $37 reach the MOQ? The price isn't the important fact. The international buyers need this keys.
Without the °^ the german layout is not supported and this is wrong: "The Norde kit provides Danish, Finnish, German, Norwegian, and Swedish characters for foreign layouts."
And don't forget, the GMK caps will be produced in Germany.
GMK accepted the lower MOQ by the international kits, because the main set was sold several hundred times. The main set has approximately 160 keys and will start by $120. The Norde kit has 26 Keys and should cost $37. I think you see the big differences in price/key. The last GMK international kits has 42 keys and a lower price/key.
OracThere's nothing wrong with EU, it's just that the interest for custom sets in Europe is much lower. Although it might not be the most accurate stats and I'm not accounting people with VPNs, this chart I made a couple months ago shows how many sessions per country were done to the project site. Most of those countries on that list use ANSI (Including the Netherlands). France uses AZERTY, UK and Ireland both use the UK-ISO, which is included on the base kit. Japan uses JIS, but as you can guess by their HHKB, many enthusiasts prefer the ANSI layout.
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climbalima
269
Jul 2, 2017
Zero2CoolThe stats have shown many times that a full norde kit doesnt reach moq. This time will be no different, so zambumon decided a different approach.
Zero2Cool
40
Jul 2, 2017
Zambumonapproximately 15% for EU
Orac
202
Jul 2, 2017
Zero2Cool"But i would..."
You've touched on the other part of my arguments - these premium keysets are hugely expensive. For you sure, you would rather pay the extra $20-$30 to get all the keys you need. That's great, 100% valid! Others will say similarly: "sure I will pay $200 for this it looks great, oh but it doesn't support my language, no thanks."
Remember that for most people they just don't have that level of disposable income, the kit does need to be nearly perfect for them to invest $200, but if we make nearly perfect kits for all languages the price will be $500 or more, and all the people who were willing to spend $200 are forced to give up anyway.
The status quo is not working for European buyers. My belief is both things need to happen i.e. price has to be less and the language support has to be more comprehensive. However GMK's systems do not easily support extremely short production runs - each size and legend is its' own mold, so it gets really expensive per key. GMK cannot invest in new machinery either to easily and flexibly make short runs, then just hope that the potential European market spontaneously notices.
You have to do the marketing and educate buyers that new things are available. Marketing is expensive too and can be worthless if you get it wrong, so it's another big risk to add. No investor is going to do that for us, so the community collectively needs to drive the progress. That means small steps, trying new approaches, and accepting compromises.
It is frustrating for all of us outside of ANSI/US English, but with each major new keyset we can push for and hope to get a little more support.
Orac
202
Jul 2, 2017
Zambumon"nothing wrong with EU..."
The data is fine I'm sure, however I disagree your conclusions. There are multiple factors affecting this and the ISO/language kit sales are utterly pitiful anyway vs the numbers you might expect from the regional proportions.
I think the question you should ask first is why aren't more website hits coming from outside USA. Partly it's the marketing issue I touched on in reply to Zero2Cool. The main marketing for mechs is really via Reddit and Geekhack and those are unsurprisingly dominated by American users. Of the ISO/non-English users that do find the mech communities, some will be turned away immediately because of the always mentioned price barrier. Others will be turned away by the occasionally very overtly hostile ANSI master-race gatekeepers. A few more may leave because of the more subtle , borderline racist: "no your language isn't supported, you should just learn to use US international."
Mostly though I think it is the price - the mech community constantly sends a message: if you're outside the popular ANSI region, you're going to have to be willing to spend a lot more for a lot less.
However, the situation is considerably better than it was a few years ago. Signature PLastics, GMK, Massdrop and the mech community is making progress toward wider support for all layouts and languages. So I don't write the above observations with a sense of doom and gloom. Do you really believe that humans in Europe are different than those in North America? I'm pretty sure we all like tactile things, and we all like pretty things. So, maybe Europeans aren't quite as wealthy as Americans, but there are more people to sell to overall. The interest should be at least equal, even if there isn't quite as much disposable income per individual.
We should be optimistic and keep trying to make reach as many users as possible. Once that happens prices will tumble and we'll get even more creative and inventive solutions because the market as a whole is large enough and diverse enough to support it.
Zero2Cool
40
Jul 3, 2017
OracSo its really unpossible to get the °^ (R1) ?
climbalima
269
Jul 3, 2017
Zero2CoolThese kits have been known for a while and have been discussed on geekhack for quite awhile. They wont be changed.
Zero2Cool
40
Jul 3, 2017
climbalimathe GMK Plum international addon was changed... so its not impossible ;)
climbalimaThere are no plans on changing any of the kits middrop.
macken
315
Jul 4, 2017
ZambumonPerhaps you could reconsider this? The fin/swe layout is also missing 1 key. This is the only reason I won't be joining this drop. And I really wanted this set.
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