Click to view our Accessibility Statement or contact us with accessibility-related questions
Showing 1 of 165 conversations about:
pmknkaek
57
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
Why is this so expensive? These keycaps cost more than my keyboard and my current keycaps combined.
Zambumon
3484
Zambumon
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
pmknkaekThis question from the FAQ answers it:
Q: $[insert price] for ABS? No way I’m paying for that. A: [...] These keycaps are not only thick, and have doubleshot legends (meaning that the legends will be sharp and will never fade) but have an excellent quality control, legend consistency and are fantastic for long typing sessions. These is what people are paying for when they get these keycaps and why many of us these are our preferred choice when building a board.
Q: $[insert price] for ABS? No way I’m paying for that. A: [...] These keycaps are not only thick, and have doubleshot legends (meaning that the legends will be sharp and will never fade) but have an excellent quality control, legend consistency and are fantastic for long typing sessions. These is what people are paying for when they get these keycaps and why many of us these are our preferred choice when building a board.
pmknkaek
57
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
ZambumonI understand they're double shot and everything, my current keycaps are the same way, but they cost me a little over $30 for a full set. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a $100 price difference for a different color + Japanese characters when I'd even be getting fewer keycaps.
dinosaur_meat
248
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
pmknkaekThis is just what GMK charges for keycaps. If you try them side-by-side with Tai Hao or other cheap doubleshots, you'll notice there's a huge difference in feel. They are also a one-off custom run, which will always increase the price. This is a niche enthusiast product and it's priced accordingly.
Vigrith
4081
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
pmknkaekThere's nothing to wrap your head around. Why would you buy a Ronde Cartier for 15 grand when you can get a nice looking Seiko for $300 when the latter may actually look nicer to some people? You're paying for quality, exclusivity, etc. This is like anything else, watches, cars, clothes, whatever else - you're paying premium for that extra 20, 10, 5, 2, 1% "better".
Is it worth it? If you can't justify it then don't buy it.
Is it worth it? If you can't justify it then don't buy it.
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
ZambumonThings like this on this sight are often way overpriced...especially when you tack on shipping. People try to make the case it's because they're special, but while they may be unique, I don't see the point of a $140 keycap set. It doesn't matter how the quality is, when you can get by or be happier with a cheaper set that looks like you want it to. These aren't even PBT, which most people here claim is better, and did you notice the estimated ship date ( Oct 29, 2018 PT )?
Vigrith
4081
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneWho cares? Do you see Zara and Primark putting Armani or Louis Vuitton out of business any time soon? Or Cartier and Rolex dying out because Swatch exists?
You do what makes you happy, which is exactly what you said. GMK and other expensive keyboard stuff make people happy, that's literally all that matters.
You do what makes you happy, which is exactly what you said. GMK and other expensive keyboard stuff make people happy, that's literally all that matters.
Zambumon
3484
Zambumon
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psiclone These aren't even PBT, which most people here claim is better
PBT is only better if certain requirements are reached, and in most cases, this doesn't happen. Most PBT keycaps are dyesub, which means that legends aren't as sharp as doubleshot ones, texture plays a huge deal with keycaps and it's not the first time that I've heard that somebody doesn't like PBT because it feels like sand paper to their fingertips. This is why BSP keycaps are for some people the only PBT up to their standards, and those sets cost more than GMK ones, and still no doubleshot. On top of that, many PBT manufacturers have issues with long keycaps, as PBT has a higher melting point and many shifts and spacebars wouldn't be up to GMK's standards.
Finally, this is a custom made set, it hasn't been made before, and it won't be mass produced. Think about it like a tailored made set. It's the same with XDA, MT3, and SP SA and DSA or any custom keyboard. Once the drop ends, Massdrop will place an order to GMK and they'll put these caps on their schedule, make them up to Massdrop's requirements, do the QC, and ship a bulk order to Massdrop, which then will ship them to every customer.
PBT is only better if certain requirements are reached, and in most cases, this doesn't happen. Most PBT keycaps are dyesub, which means that legends aren't as sharp as doubleshot ones, texture plays a huge deal with keycaps and it's not the first time that I've heard that somebody doesn't like PBT because it feels like sand paper to their fingertips. This is why BSP keycaps are for some people the only PBT up to their standards, and those sets cost more than GMK ones, and still no doubleshot. On top of that, many PBT manufacturers have issues with long keycaps, as PBT has a higher melting point and many shifts and spacebars wouldn't be up to GMK's standards.
Finally, this is a custom made set, it hasn't been made before, and it won't be mass produced. Think about it like a tailored made set. It's the same with XDA, MT3, and SP SA and DSA or any custom keyboard. Once the drop ends, Massdrop will place an order to GMK and they'll put these caps on their schedule, make them up to Massdrop's requirements, do the QC, and ship a bulk order to Massdrop, which then will ship them to every customer.
Photoelectric
98
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
ZambumonNot to mention, some of us don't like the feel of PBT and by far prefer good shiny Cherry/GMK ABS doubleshots in sound and feel.
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
ZambumonThere are quite a few competitors that do just fine making full PBT keycap sets cheaper. What appears to make this one stand out is the design, not the material.
Zambumon
3484
Zambumon
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneThe only competitor that makes PBT keycaps that stands against GMK is BSP. And BSP sets use GMK spacebars.
Vigrith
4081
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneWhy are you arguing? You deleted your reply to me right after posting it, you're clearly insecure about the point you're trying to make; your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, you're entitled to thinking GMK is overpriced and that there are "quite a few competitors that do just fine making full PBT keycap sets cheaper", not everyone is a keyboard snob that wants the extra x% out of their setup.
Some people can't tell or don't care for the difference between shitty headsets and good headphones, it's all about what's worth it to you. People don't need to justify their purchases to you and you don't need to sell your opinions to them. It's really simple.
Some people can't tell or don't care for the difference between shitty headsets and good headphones, it's all about what's worth it to you. People don't need to justify their purchases to you and you don't need to sell your opinions to them. It's really simple.
Vigrith
4081
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneI suppose when all else fails projecting is understandable.
Zambumon
3484
Zambumon
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneI'd say that people generally measure quality by legend consistency (compare this legends with JTK), keycap thickness, stems not being loose, minimal sprue marks, good colors, packaging, plastic quality (GMK has learned a lot since Triumph Adler), texture, not having scratches, not having keycaps bending (like many PBT ones)...
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
pwade3Can't help you with what you consider "quality" or "boring as hell." That's all on you.
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
ZambumonWould you consider the quality of a BMW to be better than a Honda or the other way around?
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
pwade3Then I suppose you'll keep waiting, since I'm not wearing the same rose-colored glasses.
Zambumon
3484
Zambumon
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneBMW and Honda have different targets. Both companies make cars, both cars fill the same purpose but one of them makes more expensive cars than the other one. Ask any car enthusiast what they think about BMW vs and Honda and they'll probably say something similar to the keycaps arguments.
Speaking of cars, Citroëns have an added value for many people in my hometown because there's a PSA factory close to where I live, the same happens for me and GMK. They have an instrinsect added value for many, included me.
Speaking of cars, Citroëns have an added value for many people in my hometown because there's a PSA factory close to where I live, the same happens for me and GMK. They have an instrinsect added value for many, included me.
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
ZambumonWell I've owned both BMWs and Hondas. I like the design of the BMW more, but the quality of the Honda is hands down much better. Considering the cost of ownership of the two, I would vote Honda each time. Thus, the point I made about these keycaps being overpriced...same principle. They serve the purpose of a keycap in it's utility, but the quality and design is speculative. Terms like "quality" and "overpriced" mean different things to different people. I say, these keycaps are overpriced, whereas someone else will get emotional over that. The colors here remind me of the Corsair VOID headset, the colors of which many people felt were too "gamery." I think the keycap design is interesting and the colors are fun, but $140 isn't going to cut it, especially without PBT, limited keyboard compatibility, and in some cases people have to buy more than one set to complete their setup.
Zambumon
3484
Zambumon
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneStrongly disagree with the "limited keyboard compatibility":
Core: Pok3r, Anne Pro, Nemo, Tokyo60, M60-A, Tina, Duck Viper, Zeal60, X60, E6-V2, ALF X2, Whitefox, TADA68, Magicforce 68, M65-A, Leopold FC660M, Percent Canøe, Zephyr, Uniqey C70, Drevo 84, Duck Octagon, Zephyr, Masterkeys Pro S, K-Type, Massdrop ALT, Massdrop CTRL, Ducky One TKL, Percent Skøg, TX-CP, Leopold FC980M, Cherry G80-1813, Kira, RS96, or Duck Lightsaver.
Core: Pok3r, Anne Pro, Nemo, Tokyo60, M60-A, Tina, Duck Viper, Zeal60, X60, E6-V2, ALF X2, Whitefox, TADA68, Magicforce 68, M65-A, Leopold FC660M, Percent Canøe, Zephyr, Uniqey C70, Drevo 84, Duck Octagon, Zephyr, Masterkeys Pro S, K-Type, Massdrop ALT, Massdrop CTRL, Ducky One TKL, Percent Skøg, TX-CP, Leopold FC980M, Cherry G80-1813, Kira, RS96, or Duck Lightsaver.
BlueCrowned
5305
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneThe ship date is because these keycaps don't yet exist and need to be made. This is a pre-order, essentially.
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
Zambumon...and yet it states:
Q: Is this keyset fully compatible with the Corsair Strafe, Fnatic Gear Rush, or Razer keyboards? A: No. These keyboard have a non-standard bottom row with a 6.50U spacebar.
Q: Is this keyset fully compatible with the Mistel Barocco 60%, Filco Minila, or Filco Minila Air? Can you add a 3U and 4U spacebars to the spacebars kit? A: No, these keyboards use 3.00U, 3.25U, or 4.00U spacebars and that would require GMK to make new molds for just those three boards.
Just to name a few.
Q: Is this keyset fully compatible with the Mistel Barocco 60%, Filco Minila, or Filco Minila Air? Can you add a 3U and 4U spacebars to the spacebars kit? A: No, these keyboards use 3.00U, 3.25U, or 4.00U spacebars and that would require GMK to make new molds for just those three boards.
Just to name a few.
BlueCrowned
5305
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneIt's compatible with MOST boards. The ones listed there are unusual layouts, or in the case of Corsair, Razer etc they're boards than an enthusiast willing to drop money on quality caps would never touch with a ten foot pole in the first place.
kick53rv3
53
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
Zambumonplease stop feeding that troll, he has been trolling on the SA set a couple weeks ago as well complaining about the exact same thing. Some people are just too stubborn to understand what hobbyists are.
kick53rv3
53
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psiclonejust go buy your aliexpress and taihao, GMK and SA isn't for you. You enjoy your Honda while we enjoy our BMWs
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
BlueCrownedAnd yet it states a non-standard bottom row with a 6.50U spacebar. Standard is 6.25. Thus, I would say that's not entirely true.
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
kick53rv3No need to get emotional. All I said was it was overpriced.
rjsf
14
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
ZambumonMaybe not a perfect analogy but I would liken keycaps to paintings. GMK and SP keycaps are originals and the painstaking work done by artists behind them are often underestimated so I would liken them to original paintings done by actual painters. Whereas most of the cheaper keycap sets usually gain some ideas from the originals (e.g. Nautilus?), like the Mona Lisa you bought for $40 at Walmart. And I do understand the 1%-5% improvement in quality is not proportional to the additional engineering cost which is also often underestimated.
The only one thing I may fault my GMK sets for is the inherent tendency of the ABS material to lose texture over time, but again this is not due to the designer nor GMK - I understand they are using the best material and technology available. I have experienced this firsthand when I noticed the shine on my Carbon keycaps after using them heavily for almost two years. I've also bought quite a number of GMK keycap sets at mechmarket and a few of them had shine on some keys (that the seller failed to mention) so I had to return them back. Because of this experience, I have stopped using my GMK sets as daily drivers, but only use them occasionally, because I value them THAT much.
My daily driver now is the Danger Zone. It is a beautiful set. It is ABS, however it has no texture, so it will not develop shine because it already is shiny (lol). I wonder why this smooth texture is not as popular as it is. Is there any technical reason, or simply because people prefer a little bit of texture in their keycaps?
The only one thing I may fault my GMK sets for is the inherent tendency of the ABS material to lose texture over time, but again this is not due to the designer nor GMK - I understand they are using the best material and technology available. I have experienced this firsthand when I noticed the shine on my Carbon keycaps after using them heavily for almost two years. I've also bought quite a number of GMK keycap sets at mechmarket and a few of them had shine on some keys (that the seller failed to mention) so I had to return them back. Because of this experience, I have stopped using my GMK sets as daily drivers, but only use them occasionally, because I value them THAT much.
My daily driver now is the Danger Zone. It is a beautiful set. It is ABS, however it has no texture, so it will not develop shine because it already is shiny (lol). I wonder why this smooth texture is not as popular as it is. Is there any technical reason, or simply because people prefer a little bit of texture in their keycaps?
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
rjsfThe Danger Zone set is indeed pretty. I find PBT is definitely a rougher texture, which I prefer, but to each his or her own. I don't see keycaps as analogous to paintings, but I get your point. Can we see your board?
sil3ntscr3am
199
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
VigrithDon’t feed the troll.
This is the same guy commenting the same thing about key caps price at another drop.
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
sil3ntscr3amHmm....flaming someone for saying something is overpriced.
sil3ntscr3am
199
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psiclone If you cannot agree with the pricing, or just want to whine about a drop that:
a) you don’t want to part with your precious dough for a custom product
b) cannot justify the cost vs quality
c) ignorant of existing pricing for custom products
You can make an informed, adult decision to move on and don’t comment. Should you choose to comment and it’s not helpful, continue to justify your lame excuses, be darn well prepared to be called an “internet troll”.
OMG! I’m feeding it more...
You can make an informed, adult decision to move on and don’t comment. Should you choose to comment and it’s not helpful, continue to justify your lame excuses, be darn well prepared to be called an “internet troll”.
OMG! I’m feeding it more...
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
sil3ntscr3amSo making derogatory comments about someone for stating something is overpriced is your way of not "trolling." Interesting.
dvorcol
5375
Keyboard Club Member
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneThen don’t buy it. Move along... move along.
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
dvorcolI could...or I could open a dialog, which I did. Feel free to take your own advice.
sil3ntscr3am
199
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneAs I’ve mentioned to you before in Maxkey SA Choco.
These are not the key caps you’re looking for...move along.
These are not the key caps you’re looking for...move along.
sil3ntscr3am
199
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneAwww...must have hurt that strawberry feeling of yours...I’m sorry.
rjsf
14
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
psiclone
psiclone
405
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
rjsfNice kit! Oh I don't see this as any kind of argument. There are those that won't agree. I keep it dialog oriented, while some others will make it personal. No big deal.
Zambumon
3484
Zambumon
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
BlueCrownedAnd even some of those brands are stopping to use 6.50U spacebars. Fnatic has started to make keyboard with a standard bottom row, Coolermaster has used a standard bottom for ages, and most "gaming keyboard" owners prefer having an RGB board with shine-tru legends than doubleshot keycaps.
Still, Serika's compatibility is quite big, and the examples I provide that are not covered by this set are just for the sake of clarity and not very popular amongst enthusiasts.
Still, Serika's compatibility is quite big, and the examples I provide that are not covered by this set are just for the sake of clarity and not very popular amongst enthusiasts.
Buckbrick
521
May 3, 2018
bookmark_border
pmknkaekHere’s my take on this and where I’ve been so far as I’m fairly new to the mech kyeyboard scene. I currently own one kyeyboard - my main driver - and 3 sets of keycaps: the original caps that came with the keyboard (thin OEM ABS doubleshot), cheap Cherry profile PBT laser etched and a set of Godspeed SA.
I think most new in the scene never plan on getting extra sets of keycaps until later, especially after they think that mech keyboards are something special or when they see a great looking set of keycaps. Then they see a whole gamut of keycaps and their price tags. One similar thing that comes to mind are DSLR cameras: good lenses cost more than the camera body. And of course you have cheap lenses too. Same focal lengths, different qualities.
So long story short, my fav set hands down are the SA keycaps. After having a feel of the smooth ABS and the awesome SA profile, I’m not looking back. Everything about SP’s SA keycaps are outstanding, the feel, the quality, the sound. Yes, they more costly than most except GMK, they are worth every cent. I most definitely wouldnt make this statement if I had never took the plunge. So I guess you have to go see it for yourself.
I think most new in the scene never plan on getting extra sets of keycaps until later, especially after they think that mech keyboards are something special or when they see a great looking set of keycaps. Then they see a whole gamut of keycaps and their price tags. One similar thing that comes to mind are DSLR cameras: good lenses cost more than the camera body. And of course you have cheap lenses too. Same focal lengths, different qualities.
So long story short, my fav set hands down are the SA keycaps. After having a feel of the smooth ABS and the awesome SA profile, I’m not looking back. Everything about SP’s SA keycaps are outstanding, the feel, the quality, the sound. Yes, they more costly than most except GMK, they are worth every cent. I most definitely wouldnt make this statement if I had never took the plunge. So I guess you have to go see it for yourself.
pmknkaek
57
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
BuckbrickI can maybe understand for rarer keycap profiles. That said, it's obnoxious that manufacturers don't give a little more variety in keycap profiles and materials in the first place. There's always an initial cost for a new mold, but people make new things out of plastic everyday. Once you have a new mold, the difference in the material cost in negligable. If you make your molds right, you should be able to use more than just one kind of plastic. It boggles the mind how behind the times keycap manufacturing seems to be sometimes. Specialization is one thing, but what keycap manufacturers do is something else entirely.
Also, I seem to have accidentally started a rather venomous comment thread. Oops.
Also, I seem to have accidentally started a rather venomous comment thread. Oops.
BlueCrowned
5305
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
pmknkaekI think that keyboard enthusiasts get tired of people from outside the community invading our drops just to throw a fit about the prices, when what we do with our money ultimately does not affect them whatsoever. You see it more on keycaps than any other drop on MD.
pmknkaek
57
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
BlueCrownedI'm tired of people on massdrop gatekeeping their communities and attacking people who want to speak up about getting ripped off. You see it more on keycaps than any other drop on MD.
I'm just here to voice some concerns. I think these drops are designed to take advantage of people who just want decent quality keycaps. Feel free to continue defending this, but I've said all I needed to say.
I'm just here to voice some concerns. I think these drops are designed to take advantage of people who just want decent quality keycaps. Feel free to continue defending this, but I've said all I needed to say.
Buckbrick
521
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
pmknkaekGranted. Thats where the Chinese have an upper hand through mass production. Of course there’s the operation costs involved. GMK caps are made in Germany where the costs are way higher. So that has impact on the final price.
Personally I know the limit I would be willing to shell out on a single set of keycaps. Getting your dream keycaps that tick all the boxes is a long long journey.
Personally I know the limit I would be willing to shell out on a single set of keycaps. Getting your dream keycaps that tick all the boxes is a long long journey.
Buckbrick
521
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
BlueCrownedI feel the same way about custom IEMs though, but not as vehemently. Lol.
Zambumon
3484
Zambumon
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
Buckbrick> GMK caps are made in Germany where the costs are way higher.
Sorry, but that's absolutely not true.
The costs aren't that much higher, considering the number of keycaps included on a base kit. If we go price per keycap, a GMK set is cheaper than XDA. Serika base kit @ 1000 units is $120, a very successful set such as XDA Godspeed covering the same layouts would be Alphas $46, modifiers $30, Tsangan $28, Calculus $16, ISO kit $8. That's right, around the same pricing, granted that splitting kits adds some extra costs, so some would say it's not a fair comparisson.
An enjoyPBT equivalent of these set would cost around $110, it's slightly cheaper but those aren't doubleshots. An SA Maxkeys set would be more expensive, MT3 would be slightly around the same pricepoint and the only contender left is JTK, which is indeed cheaper than GMK, but with a trade off: thinner keycaps, legend inconsistencies and less options for keycap sizes and legends.
Sorry, but that's absolutely not true.
The costs aren't that much higher, considering the number of keycaps included on a base kit. If we go price per keycap, a GMK set is cheaper than XDA. Serika base kit @ 1000 units is $120, a very successful set such as XDA Godspeed covering the same layouts would be Alphas $46, modifiers $30, Tsangan $28, Calculus $16, ISO kit $8. That's right, around the same pricing, granted that splitting kits adds some extra costs, so some would say it's not a fair comparisson.
An enjoyPBT equivalent of these set would cost around $110, it's slightly cheaper but those aren't doubleshots. An SA Maxkeys set would be more expensive, MT3 would be slightly around the same pricepoint and the only contender left is JTK, which is indeed cheaper than GMK, but with a trade off: thinner keycaps, legend inconsistencies and less options for keycap sizes and legends.
pmknkaek
57
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
BuckbrickI know what you mean, it's hard enough to find the perfect switch. It's just frustrating finding SA and XDA keycaps that are at a sane price. It's not like the process is different or the materials cost is somehow much higher. The way custom keycaps are run in such small batches is really counterintuitive unless you're deliberately driving up costs. With how many individual small runs there are for any given set, there's no way it isn't intentional to boost margins.
dvorcol
5375
Keyboard Club Member
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
pmknkaek > If you make your molds right, you should be able to use more than just one kind of plastic.
Not exactly. One mold will only work for plastics with the same shrink rate (and maybe not even then). For certain, different shrink rates = different molds needed for quality parts.
Not exactly. One mold will only work for plastics with the same shrink rate (and maybe not even then). For certain, different shrink rates = different molds needed for quality parts.
Zambumon
3484
Zambumon
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
dvorcolUsing different materials for the same molds isn't possible, there's more stuff than just the shrink rates, PBT could cause degradation issues with molds designed for ABS. It's way more complicated that "just change the plastic and temperatures".
dvorcol
5375
Keyboard Club Member
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
ZambumonVery true. I over-simplified to make the point that ABS & PBT keycaps cannot be made on the same tooling.
Buckbrick
521
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
ZambumonIf you compare custom keycaps to custom keycaps, yes I agree. But our friend’s query is, outside of the fact its a custom product, it’s intrinsically the same product - a keycap made of ABS or PBT. Of course I know this is oversimplifying of things. There are many factors at play that contributes to the price of any product.
pmknkaek
57
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
dvorcolTIL, good to know. This goes for all related comments as well. It still makes me wonder if someone out there has found a way to make using the same mold possible as long as certain tolerances are allowed. I'll have to read more on this topic.
pmknkaek
57
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
BuckbrickThank you, that's basically my point. Regardless of the material, it seems strange that manufacturers that have been around for a least a decade if not longer may only offer a single keycap profile. Perhaps there are certain legal things in the way of one manufacturer producing a certain profile, but then why never invest in a competing and similar alternative? I would not consider the Taihao profile to be in entirely direct competition with say the XDA profile for example. The keyboard parts business has all sorts of weird little things like this that don't seem to make much sense and that you don't see as much most anywhere else from what I've seen.
HotRoderX
753
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneHonestly this just sounds like the dribble of someone upset they can't afford something. I am not trying to be rude only call a spade a spade. I might get mad I can't afford a Rolex but it don't make them any less valuable nor would I call out Rolex saying they suck cause I don't want to spend the money... swear this new generation! I want it I can't have it so let me complain and say how horrible it is.. Cause that's what been taught to do. Instead of sucking it up and dealing with life.
HotRoderX
753
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
pmknkaekit comes down to manufacturing cost and buyers. Honestly we are a small subset of buyers. 99% of GMK's buyers are big name OEM's who most likely order in the Millions for things like POS Terminal's. Scanners. Etc for companies. Most of them don't give a care about the keycap's going on there product as long as. 1 there durable. 2 they work. 3 they are marginally comfortable to use. Boil's down to why reinvent the wheel. The other thing I have heard creating a full set of new molds can cost upward's of 100k's of dollars. Which why would you invest that kinda money into something you might not get a return on.
psiclone
405
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
HotRoderXThe funny thing is I'm not emotional about it at all. I said it was overpriced, which it is. Simple. The vendor can do with that what they like. My comment about how MD handles things like this is also true and verified over and over by many people showing links to the same products for less or about the same or, in some cases, a little more expensive and that you can still get them faster. I wasn't stating anything that hasn't already been proven true in those cases. As far as how expensive these keycaps are, the vendor can try to justify the cost or not.
dinosaur_meat
248
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
psicloneI'm just trying to understand your argument here. They are most certainly not comparable to the cheap Tai-Hao keycaps you find on Amazon. So the best I can understand is that you think the manufacturer is making huge profit on these and consumers are being gouged.
In that case... fine. I don't know enough about plastic manufacturing to comment intelligently on that. But somehow I suspect that you don't either.
As far as I understand, high-quality plastic manufacturing is just expensive. Nobody complains that Lego sets north of $100 are overpriced because you can buy an "equivalent" Mega Blocks set for $30.
In that case... fine. I don't know enough about plastic manufacturing to comment intelligently on that. But somehow I suspect that you don't either.
As far as I understand, high-quality plastic manufacturing is just expensive. Nobody complains that Lego sets north of $100 are overpriced because you can buy an "equivalent" Mega Blocks set for $30.
kick53rv3
53
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
Zambumon> The costs aren't that much higher, considering the number of keycaps included on a base kit. If we go price per keycap, a GMK set is cheaper than XDA. Serika base kit @ 1000 units is $120, a very successful set such as XDA Godspeed covering the same layouts would be Alphas $46, modifiers $30, Tsangan $28, Calculus $16, ISO kit $8. That's right, around the same pricing, granted that splitting kits adds some extra costs, so some would say it's not a fair comparisson.
I would say not being able to split up the kit is my biggest hurdle of jumping in on GMK sets, as an ortho and 60% user, I do not need the Tsangan/calculus/iso etc. And I would confidently say over half of the mech keycap buying userbase are TKL or less.
I get that it is easier to have anything in 1 kit (or is it for profit reasons? I cannot say) but an alpha base + mods + etc (numpad/iso/etc) would be more attractive to the price conscious. Getting base+40 for an ortho board is $200 after taxes and shipping, comparing to the recent SA pulse drop where base+ortho kit comes out to less than $100 after taxes and shipping.
In the end the only people that comes out even in these GMK drops are the ones using full size boards that can use majority of the base set. But the only winners here are GMK that sold keys to customers that would not bought those kits if the kit was split.
I am sure GMK has done their research and know that they'll make more money this way because people love their stuff and will buy it at all costs, but we shouldn't argue their pricing scheme is for the customers.
I would say not being able to split up the kit is my biggest hurdle of jumping in on GMK sets, as an ortho and 60% user, I do not need the Tsangan/calculus/iso etc. And I would confidently say over half of the mech keycap buying userbase are TKL or less.
I get that it is easier to have anything in 1 kit (or is it for profit reasons? I cannot say) but an alpha base + mods + etc (numpad/iso/etc) would be more attractive to the price conscious. Getting base+40 for an ortho board is $200 after taxes and shipping, comparing to the recent SA pulse drop where base+ortho kit comes out to less than $100 after taxes and shipping.
In the end the only people that comes out even in these GMK drops are the ones using full size boards that can use majority of the base set. But the only winners here are GMK that sold keys to customers that would not bought those kits if the kit was split.
I am sure GMK has done their research and know that they'll make more money this way because people love their stuff and will buy it at all costs, but we shouldn't argue their pricing scheme is for the customers.
BlueCrowned
5305
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
kick53rv3But you COULD sell the extra keys for twice their MSRP
kick53rv3
53
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
BlueCrownedI could TRY to sell the extra keys for twice their MSRP, but I am sure it is a lot harder to find buyers for all the "non-standard" mods without alphas/standard mods attached.
do people actually buy a separate set of function row/numpad that doesn't match their main board? why not just buy the core set to cover all if they need it for the numpad?
do people actually buy a separate set of function row/numpad that doesn't match their main board? why not just buy the core set to cover all if they need it for the numpad?
BlueCrowned
5305
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
kick53rv3I managed to sell an incomplete Pulse set within hours
kick53rv3
53
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
BlueCrownedkeep in mind for an SA set it is very likely the buyer didn't buy the particular set you are selling so they would buy your set to finish the board. While for GMK buyers are pretty much guaranteed to have the keys you are selling from the base set if they are trying to finish the board. So the only potential customers are the ones that just want a part of the board to be in this set.
Anyways my point isn't if it could be sold in mechmarket, the point is not splitting the kit is not a pro-consumer move and we as consumers should not consider it a benefit to us.
Anyways my point isn't if it could be sold in mechmarket, the point is not splitting the kit is not a pro-consumer move and we as consumers should not consider it a benefit to us.
BlueCrowned
5305
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
kick53rv3it was alphas and mods but it was missing the right shift and up arrow.
personally I consider it a pro-consumer move because of the number of keys for a low price and the ability to fill any future boards I may have even if I go with a different layout than usual
personally I consider it a pro-consumer move because of the number of keys for a low price and the ability to fill any future boards I may have even if I go with a different layout than usual
kick53rv3
53
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
BlueCrownedBut some of us also knows what we like, example I know I like ortho and I don't use numpad so I would never go back to full size.
I wouldn't call $120 + $60 for 40s a low price, again refer back to the SA pulse drop, alpha+mods/orthos would be less than $100, it would be cheap for people that gets all the keys for a full size keyboard, but not for anyone else. I much rather to get what I want without having to pay for all the extra keys. I am sure the extra keys are cheaper than getting a numpad kit on a per key basis. But if you don't use them how could that extra cost be a pro for you?
I wouldn't call $120 + $60 for 40s a low price, again refer back to the SA pulse drop, alpha+mods/orthos would be less than $100, it would be cheap for people that gets all the keys for a full size keyboard, but not for anyone else. I much rather to get what I want without having to pay for all the extra keys. I am sure the extra keys are cheaper than getting a numpad kit on a per key basis. But if you don't use them how could that extra cost be a pro for you?
BlueCrowned
5305
May 4, 2018
bookmark_border
kick53rv3that's fair. I use a standard TKL right now so I can use most of the base kit sans numpad.
evangs
1492
May 10, 2018
bookmark_border
HotRoderXfor new double shot molds it's quite a bit higher than that
BlueCrowned
5305
May 10, 2018
bookmark_border
pmknkaekNobody is gatekeeping, but nobody is getting ripped off either, so.
Related Products
Drop Refurbished
Like-new products you can trustDrop Rewards
Get $5 for every 500 points you earn! Learn more
Drop Keyboard Club
Become a member and expand your keycap collectionCollaborate With Us
For Brands & DesignersFollow Drop