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HammerHand
203
Jan 3, 2016
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Why is a simple lock back flipper so expensive when the steel is only a CPM154? For this kind of money I'd expect Elmax steel and ball bearing with assist opening.
Jan 3, 2016
dtw898
158
Jan 3, 2016
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HammerHandBasically you are paying for the name and the good chance that the item will become a collector item which will be worth many times over in the future. However, I joined this one because of the name, the smooth flipper action, the attention to the details that can only come from a custom knife, the checkering design on the handle, and the blue anodization. I also like the fact that this mini-Exo is a bit shorter than the McGinnis Pro Line Valve model. The size fits perfectly for my need. I don't plan to lock it inside a glass display box to preserve future collector value, I'm going to take it with me as my EDC so that I can appreciate the beauty of this knife when I've the time to flavor it during the day.
Everyone at Massdrop has their own appreciation of beauty. It so happen this knife falls into my window of appreciation.
Cheers!
Jan 3, 2016
grax
44
Jan 11, 2016
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dtw898that is probably the best, and most convincing explanation i have ever gotten regarding these things.
Jan 11, 2016
dtw898
158
Jan 13, 2016
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graxThanks for the comment. :-)
Jan 13, 2016
yiri
237
Apr 4, 2016
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HammerHandSeriously. I'm currently EDCing a Lionsteel TRE, titanium framelock / caged IKBS bearings / M390 blade. Paid $230 for it & no postage fees. No point comparing aesthetics - there never is - but it's probably fair to say the TRE doesn't look shit, having won "Knife Of The Year" at Blade Show '15. And Lionsteel have superlative fit & finish; blue anodization is hardly exclusive to customs, see attached. The lockbar has a steel insert, which is bloody important if you like to flip your flippers, and I'm not sure whether one exists here. It is the first user-customizable knife (not a gimmick if you live anywhere without the "Mad Max" approach to weapons possession found across much of the US) and an award winner which however sold in relatively small numbers, so people are interested in it and ask about it.
None of which should be taken as an attempt to diminish the McGinnis knife. I can't say one way or the other that one knife is better than the other, as I haven't possessed one of these. But I can say that the usual "Buy customs because!" topics are pretty much locked down in this case. It's not fair to say "Oh, this knife would have to be twice as good to be worth it" because in every market there is a principle of diminishing returns. I'd say this knife would have to be 150% as good as the Lionsteel to be worth it. But the big problem: it'd have to be that good overall -- but if we can't compare anything else, we can compare materials, and the Lionsteel is objectively better. Steel differences are always small, but they're also well understood; M390 beats CPM154, all day everyday. Again, I haven't owned one of these. Haven't even held one. But the problem, for me, is that it would need to end up 150% of my TRE, on aesthetics, fit and finish, while starting from behind on materials. I can't think of a knife like that. The Rockstead SHUN is incredible, I love it, I'm saving up for one (slowly), but if it had CPM154? It'd lose a lot of the magic.
The "collector item" idea is silly. I don't know why people fall for it. If you want it to be "worth many times" or even "the same" as when you bought it, you must be intending to sell it; otherwise it's not "worth" anything. Sure, knives are easily bought and sold secondhand, yes, but how often do people buy discontinued models over MSRP? Close as hell to "never". And if you ever, ever, want to sell it for a profit you must never, never use it - for anything - knife nerds are suspicious and have microscopes ;) So you'll never ever get to use it, enjoy it, nothing. It goes in the safe and is left for years or decades, on the off chance that it's that one whose value actually did increase. You can't decide later "Oh, I'll keep it as a collector's item." By then, it's "damaged", ie., not damaged unless you have OCD, but that's the market.
Further reading re the value proposition of customs: http://www.everydaycommentary.com/2016/03/trolling-for-hate-only-so-much.html
Apr 4, 2016
dtw898
158
Apr 5, 2016
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yiriAt the end of the day, it all comes down to "what you like" about the flipper. As an EDC, it is essentially a "very personal" item to purchase. So from customers of all walk of life, there is a market for high quality production (as reasonable price) to high quality custom (as high price).
Since this is a personal EDC item, each individual standard of "valuation" of the knife is subjective. How do you define 150% better than the "TRE"? Only you can define the 150% better in your own term.
Despite the "tough detent" of this McGinnis flipper, I LOVE it 'cause every time I hold it in my hand, I know I'm holding a solid piece of tool. The size is perfect (thickness of the handle as well as length of the blade) and the look is gorgeous (the blue anodization and the checkering on the handle). You probably have the similar attachment to your TRE the way I've on my McGinnis.
All MassDrop is doing is to provide a platform for a broad range of customers to buy their "personal" EDC that they can be happy with. In summary, there is really no point in comparing one flipper to another since each has its own beauty. If we don't see the one we like in Massdrop, we wait for another one to pop-out that catch our attention which in turn work in reducing our wallet size...
Apr 5, 2016
yiri
237
Apr 6, 2016
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dtw898Frankly, it sounds like you just said "You'll end up experiencing choice-supportive bias more if you spend more money and have a harder time justifying it... ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias if you're unfamiliar.)
Hey guys commenting, can we not be assholes please? While I don't intend to buy this knife, the creator will see what you're saying, and he's a talented young man who doesn't deserve the insults. Good on him for being brave enough to give it a go and put himself out there; yes there are things not perfect with this knife, but he'll get them. Part of the reason I don't wanna be critical is that I've tried working on knives a bunch; it's bloody hard.
Honestly, knives are projects to me. I'm carrying this one, using it; I also carry out little modifications to it; tweak this, file that, loctite the other thing... and I've been reprofiling and messing around with the blade profile since Day 1. Trying to turn it into a perfect convexed edge mirror polish. Like, yes, a Rockstead. It's tempting to buy a belt grinder... or stop using it as my EDC, since it took me 6 hours to repair a small chip from accidentally cutting into a piece of thin steel. But that'd be cheating. Once I successfully fool someone into thinking it's a Rockstead, I'll be done, and I'll buy a Rockstead. Or maybe the journey will have made me not fucking want one.
So yeah, we've all got our own little reasons for doing the things we do. Nothing against the things you do; just sayin'.
Apr 6, 2016
dtw898
158
Apr 6, 2016
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yiriWow! You're turning something simple into an unwarranted psychology 101 case study. I encourage you to find a knife shop that carry the McGinnis and feel the knife in your hand. I did not regret nor do I need to justify my purchase of the McGinnis. It is a fine piece of folder I'll carry everyday for practical use.
Regarding other people comments- good or bad, beauty is in the eyes of the beholders. And I'm sure the creator understands that as well. That is why there are different models to satisfy various customers' tastes.
And you're corrected about how difficult it is to design and handcraft a top-notch folder. But once created, the quality is unmistakable once you hold it in your hand.
Cheers!
Apr 6, 2016
yiri
237
Apr 6, 2016
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dtw898Thanks for the info re how nice nice things are. I've actually had one or two nice things in the past, as it happens, and so I am quite aware that "nice things" are nice; for your information, they are almost infinitely easier to create when you have a massive, high tech, expensive as hell production facility - like the one at Taichung, or Lionsteel's, etc. Take an iPhone. The technical complexity is something we take for granted, but it would be otherwise essentially unimaginable; it is assembled in minutes by children. I mean, not children, uh, definitely not children. But they don't need to have degrees, right? At the same time though, a person working with hand tools could not produce an iPhone if he lived ten thousand years and never did anything else.
That's why I take the approach I do to knives. I get a technically superb, fundamentally great production knife; good steel, good shapes, good numbers. Probably it'll already have great fit and finish, thanks to competence. But that's okay, it's good; still, I'll find something nice to do to it. I'll change it, and then it'll be mine. Do you see the psychology there? If I've just bought it - hell, I could sell it online tomorrow. But my Fallkniven G1, or my Spyderco Civilian... it looks like the other ones, but there are differences, and it's better, and the better one is mine.
That's pleasant, I feel. I enjoy the fact that my one is better because I have made it better. It's enjoyable to have things which surprise others by being better than one would expect. If I had a custom knife maker make a knife for me, anything I did would kinda be... fucking it up. Not that it'd be worse (unlimited time per knife is not something any maker has) but just that it'd be *wrong*. Does that make sense? I'll happily draw eyebrows and exaggerated expressions on the pictures in the newspaper, but not on the pictures in the Louvre.
It would not be an expression of me, then, it would be an expression of someone else. YMMV; after all, I'm the sort of person to cut the labels off things.
Apr 6, 2016
yiri
237
Apr 6, 2016
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dtw898Also, I'm sorry that you feel defensive. Psychology, being the study of the human mind, presents one with dozens of potential "case studies" every day; being as we are human minds, surrounded by other human minds. Was it the use of technical terminology that has upset you? Using technically correct terms helps me to communicate meaning clearly; especially when discussing maladaptive things, because the colloqial jargon for maladaptive psychological symptoms often ends up having pejorative implications attached, and that's not intended.
So yeah, I gave the so-called "psychology 101 case study" under a third of a comment; and, as I say, that's just a perception that you've formed because I tried to avoid insulting you. So it goes, I guess. Still - if I were doing what you have claimed I am doing, I could happily give your most recent comment 500 words or so; among those words would be "antiprocessing", "cognitive dissonance", "effort justification" and "true believer syndrome". While your first comment was unexceptional, I always do enjoy seeing someone express their objection to being called an "X" by suddenly turning into the Platonic Ideal of X's.
But I'm not a troll, and even though I type fast I'm busy, so have a nice evening.
Apr 6, 2016
dtw898
158
Apr 6, 2016
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yiriNo apology needed. As long as we are human, there will always be a psychological "label" for any human responses which included yours as well. I dare say that the only one who can respond without triggering a psychological label is probably Buddha himself; but then someone will surely find a label to slap on him as well.
Keep it simple, enjoy the folders we chose and bought and continue to share our thought regardless.
Cheers!
Apr 6, 2016
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