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Showing 1 of 73 conversations about:
BT5K
3
Jan 17, 2019
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I’m kind of tired of seeing IEMs on here. I just dont see the appeal of them compared to on ear or over ear headphones.
Jan 17, 2019
Xap1008
41
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5KI was the same, but once I tried an iem, it is now hard for me to go back to over ears. iems are more comfortable as they don’t add any weight to your head, block out outside noice and just overall more enjoyable when listening to music.
Jan 17, 2019
BT5K
3
Jan 17, 2019
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Xap1008I disagree. I have no issue with over ear headphones. I don't notice a feeling of extra weight on my head. Also unless im out and about I dont care about blocking outside noise. And there is no way you can convince me IEMs sound better than comparable over ear headphones. I only see very few reasons to wear IEMs. 1. Portability for some one who travels or is out and about or maybe in the gym, something like that. 2. Live musician who needs a monitor for live performance and over ear would be more cumbersome. 3. Someone who works in an office setting where they dont want to disrupt others. But even then they could just wear closed back over ear heaphones. I’m not saying they don't serve a purpose I am just saying this site is flooded with IEMs when I think in most cases over ears are superior.
Jan 17, 2019
Wookhead
126
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5KThe iem market is newer with more kinds of tech and far more amounts of innovation and competition. Meanwhile the 6xx essentially came out in 2003. You could've bought a great pair of headphones 15 years ago and they'd still be great. Can't say the same for even 5 years ago for iems. Not to mention the use cases of iems will result in them breaking or being lost far more often.
Jan 17, 2019
Xap1008
41
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5KGo and try some quality IEMs, they def sound comparable or better then over ear headphones of the same price range imo.
Jan 17, 2019
BT5K
3
Jan 17, 2019
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WookheadAgreed. I have the 6XXs and they are amazing. So you think the IEM market is somewhat of a trend?
Jan 17, 2019
Unsquish
36
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5KI wear IEMs every night as I fall asleep. I enjoy music at normal volume for a few minutes and then turn them down quite a bit when I get tired. I started doing this because my wife snores, and music on low blocks out the noise better than anything else I've tried. Once I realized this, I began enjoying the hobby of researching and trying different IEMs. So I still enjoy seeing each of the new types on offer and wondering if I'm going to get it at some point. I like headphones, too, but they're harder for me to use in bed - so at least for now, I'm one of the people who clicks on every IEM MassDrop offers to see if it's for me. I like @Wookhead's explanation as well - just more new advancements in IEMs the last couple of years. I suspect manufacturing advancements parts prices declining play a role in that. All that said, it doesn't feel like an either/or thing to me ... I hope you get to be tempted by more headphones soon!
Jan 17, 2019
BT5K
3
Jan 17, 2019
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Xap1008I have the Sennheiser 6XXs. Name me some IEMs under $300 you think can compete with those and I will try them out.
Jan 17, 2019
Xap1008
41
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5KGet this exact drop, Kanas pro. Only 150 and you will see what all these iem fuss is about.
Jan 17, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5KGood thing no one is forcing you to buy them. Many like them for compactness/portability, clarity of sound, comfort, low power requirements, external noise isolation for using on public transit. IEMs are fun to collect because they don't take up a lot of space and really good ones are being made for only several Hundred dollars. Go try your HD6xx on a train..lol. I have been using IEMs since 2000 and will continue to in certain environments . I will grab for my HD800s or LCD2 when given the right environment, but there any many situations that I can not even use those if I want to.
Jan 17, 2019
Schwibbles
99
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5K$300 - FLC 8S. There is an updated, 8n model but it's $370. The upgrade is worth the price IMO because it switches the cable connector to a more common, 0.78mm 2-pin layout. Still the 8S is one of my all-time favorite IEMs in terms of comfort and sound. I would place it in the same league as the HD650. The treble will be brighter than the HD650 though. Some people find it can be a little sibilant but I don't have an issue with it. It has filters that can help with that. The 8S will have better sub bass extension than the HD650. $300 - InEarz Zen 2. A smooth, warm sound similar to the HD650. Not entirely the same presentation though; the Zen2 is just a little bit brighter. I haven't seen the Zen 3 sell for $300 except for the drop on here a month or so ago. $100 - Massdrop EDC3. Similar tonality but the HD650 but may not be at quite the same level in terms of separation and detail. May sound ever-so-slightly veiled in comparison to the HD650. The HD650 is also a little warmer sounding in the lower midrange whereas the EDC3 has a flatter response. These Kanas Pro IEMs look decent based on measurements. They look to have quite a bit more bass than the HD650 though. Unfortunately, I've never heard them so I can't compare. FWIW, I would say the AKG N5005 is an IEM that easily competes with headphones in its price range. It is quite a bit more expensive. I got a pair in perfect condition, used, for $575 with the box and accessories. At that (used) price, I think its sound quality exceeds that of many full-sized headphones in that price range.
Jan 17, 2019
derbagger22
61
Jan 17, 2019
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Xap1008I prefer over ear headphones. However, I prefer IEMs if I'm out in public as I hate how my hair gets messed up. And if I'm sleeping upright on a plane, even the lightest headphones will make my head tilt or strain my neck. They each have their place. But a great sounding IEM may be my preferred over an equally great headphone. I find it fascinating how many technologies and packaging goes into IEMs...
Jan 17, 2019
BT5K
3
Jan 17, 2019
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jmahoneyWell you can also buy several very good over ear headphones for just a couple hundred dollars so thats really a moot point. And you can get closed back and even noise cancelling over ears as well. And yeah I obviously wouldnt wear my HD6XXs on a train. Like I said I realize there are good reasons/scenerios where IEMs would be a better option. But I do the majority of my music listening at home, so I use speakers and headphones without worry of external sounds ruining kynlistening experience. My point is as I feel like this sight is flooded with IEMs compared to regular headphones or other audio equipment I would be interested in purchasing.
Jan 17, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5K14 over ear and 15 IEM currently. Most these are due to the trend in 4 or 5 driver Chi-Fi IEMs which are making what used to be $1000 headphones for under $300. That doesn't make IEMs are bad. It means there is demand and everyone is trying to cash in. have you owned an IEM with more than 4 drivers? The sound is very impressive for the size.
Jan 17, 2019
BT5K
3
Jan 17, 2019
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jmahoneyI have not owned any IEMs with more than 4 drivers. Mainly because I dont have much use for IEMs at all. Im rarely in a situiation where they make more sense than over ear headphones. If I travelled more or used public transport or wore headphones at the gym I might feel the need to invest. That being said like I told someone else on here Im willing to try some out and see what all the fuss is about. Any recommendations?
Jan 17, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5KThe key is finding tips that fit your ear and make a good seal. Good IEMs may come with 10 different size/ material tips. I personally like a medium memory foam tips. As for best depends on budget. My high end Favorites are the Shure se846 and the campfire audio andromeda, but those are really expensive and probably not what you are looking for. Fiio FH5 or the BGVP DMG seem to be popular midrange IEMs. If you are not in an environment where you need isolation or compactness then you may not even need IEMs.
Jan 17, 2019
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5KJust FYI, driver count doesn't equate to IEM quality. Right now, we have a surge of great dynamic driver IEMs that have made me give my hybrids and multi BA sets a lot of time in a drawer. If you look at my profile, I have a healthy mix all all types of gear but as you stated, I travel and bike a lot so IEMs just make more sense when I'm not at home. The other big plus is they're much easier to drive to get you to a roughly equivalent SQ like your open back headphones. And while I can't say whther one is superior, they each Excel in their own niche. As ultimately if we really get down to it, headphones, and IEMs, are beneath proper 2ch loudspeaker setups for various reasons. Also, what's your budget? The amount of gear I've owned and/or sampled is pretty absurd so I'm sure I know something that could at least pique your interest down this rabbit hole.
Jan 17, 2019
AncientSword
19
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5KI sold all my over ears and went to all IEM's. I guess it is just what your personal preference is. Modern IEM's can sound amazing. You just need to make sure you know what sound signature you prefer and match the IEM to that tuning to be happy with it.
Jan 17, 2019
Frogmeat
562
Jan 17, 2019
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BT5KThe EDC3 are nice for the price. The BGVP DMG are great for $100
Jan 17, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 18, 2019
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BT5KI was thinking the same as you before I found some pretty decnet sounding earphones and found how great their portability + isolation was. Nevertheless I still believe not only headphones sound better but their price Vs performance is so much better than iem. A $200-300 headphone would sound a lot more coherent and definitely have a better soundstage than any iem. The hype in iem market is ridiculous, people paying hundreds and even thousands for small drivers in tiny shells which probably cost almost nothing (I do understand there is some cost for rnd). There's a lot of BS in this "hobby", shouldn't really be a hobby unless some people's "hobby" is to just spend money lol. Do your research and go demo some, get a good iem and a headphone then you're set, don't fall for the continuous marketing. Very few iem and even quite a few $1000+ earphones dont follow the harman curve. If you want to try a good iem try the Sony mh1c which cost 10-20$ and follows the harman curve very closely. No need for spending hundreds or even thousands on overly bright (aka "audiophile") iems. If you want isolation and portability then get Etymotic earphones, they have better isolation than ANC headphones but they do sound unnatural as they follow diffuse field curve and not Harman curve, additionally mids are overly boosted.
Jan 18, 2019
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jan 18, 2019
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ShowpanOdd you would say that as the Harman Curve is ever changing and they also have a Harman target for IEMs. I'm not sure how closely you follow this but it's been well documented for a while now. OE is over ear and IE is in ear: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response
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Not mention, the 6XX which the poster enjoys, is a mid-centric headphone that doesn't follow the curve and has a bit of roll off in the lower frequencies and it definitely is not known for its large soundstage. The 650 is an old headphone. This isn't really news for those of us that have sampled them over the years and their soft revisions Sennheiser has made to them (again, all well documented). Funny how you equate audiophile with bright where pretty much the benchmark for an audiophile is "neutral." Balance is what matters most as you ideally want a headphone that won't color the sound. And yet, none of that matters as we haven't factored in the amp or DAC yet which can color the sound or be fully transparent (which most want in the end). But, that's always a bigger discussion. You also may be the first person I've heard call Ety's sound unnatural. The ER3/4 are renowned for good reason and still a solid benchmark so many years later.
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Jan 18, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 18, 2019
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jaydunndidditMoondrop Blessing IEM is known for being Harman Neutral, but that may be a little light on bass for some people's taste. The person who said audiophile high end headphones are just bright must just be used to headphones with no high end. Good headphones will have clear high end without being bright which is what is hard to accomplish. HD800 for example were redone to remove a little high end bump when they made the HD800s. As far as cost, diminishing returns hit hard once you get over $300 on headphones.
Jan 18, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 18, 2019
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jaydunndidditI was just replying to the posters opnion that headphones sound better hence why I didn't mention his favourite headphone. The hd6xx series midrange is praised as one of the best and if you look at Harman curve you will see exactly why, it follows nearly identically. But bass is lacking the hump and in fact rolls of. Treble is also a little low in energy, although close to Harman. Although Harman doesn't show, I believe headphones need a small spike at around 9-10k to add that extra energy and sparkle. Thus why I understand why some people say the "sennheiser veil". I've listened to the hd600 myself and found them very boring (prior to looking at graphs), my frequency analysis pretty much backs it up. Having demoed a lot of headphones and then looking at their graphs, I think the Harman curve is very much accurate as the ones which follow them most sound best to me. Yes it has changed throughout the years but the fundamental peaks such as the one at 3 or 3.5k and the bass hump remains the same. the bass hump I believe can be subjective to how high it plateu but you just can't get rid of it entirely. The only differences that are notable throughout the years is the bass plateu height which I mentioned before, and the treble roll off. The most recent Harman iteration with treble roll off reduced I think is a good idea. Also regarding "audiophile" sound you say it is "neutral" when alot of audiophile praise the hd6xx series which has horrible bass response. The most objective way to describe Neutral is the Harman curve. Besides we listen to music for fun and enjoyment, there's nothing wrong with a bit of colouration and especially bass which is completely lacking on these so called neutral audiophile open backed headphones. Bass is in our blood, one of the first man made instruments was the drum, Africans our ancestors use the drums extensively. There's a reason why the bassy beats by Dr Dre have not closed down and lasted for over a decade, though their first headphones were pretty bad, their recent ones sound very good despite the bass hump which remains excessive. Regarding etymotic, go to rting.con and look at the raw frequency graph of er4xr, they also overlay the Harman iem curve for reference. You should check out other graphs of high end headphones also on rting, maybe even compare them to the beats solo 3 HD and beats Ep and you'll be surprised how well beats have evolved. The er3xr Mids are definitely over boosted and rise too steeply. I've listened to the er3xr (before looking at graphs) which is essentially the same and boosted mids was exactly what I heard. Also soundstage was absolutely non existent, I don't know if any iem has or can even have a worser soundstage. I just recommended it due to portability and isolation, plus micro details it brings out. I'm not saying they're not fun to listen to, although unnatural sounding i really like the amount of detail they put out. They also do a pretty good job technically i.e. relatively low distortion and excellent channel matching etc. Fyi I am in m early 20's so I should have no age related hearing loss (aka presbycusis, which is unavoidable and irreversible) and can hear 20hz-20khz. I also consider my hearing quite sensitive as I have always listened at low to very low volumes (2-3 notches on the phone). It's concerning that older people who understandably have more expendable money are shilling on about very expensive audio gear and perhaps wrongly influencing consumers when their ability to hear high frequency is greatly reduced, probably why there is so much high end "audiophile" product with boosted treble and rolled off bass.
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Jan 18, 2019
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jan 18, 2019
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jmahoneyI'd agree about high end audiophile headphones. Many aren't as bright as people make them out to be. I tend to find cheap IEMs to be brighter, thin, and tinny sounding by comparison due to their lack of control and resolution in those areas. We also haven't talked about impedance and amps which also plays a huge role for more reactive IEMs (looking at you Andromeda) or headphones that have wild impedance swings (cue the 6XX and many other Senn's). Although I'd have to part ways with you on diminishing returns after $300. That's so subjective that without proper context just doesn't add up. I see no issue in driving or owning a 911, AMG, or Audi RS and yet many would balk at that and be perfectly fine with a Honda Civic and see only diminishing return. Neither party is wrong, just different priorities, wants, and needs from their respective products. I can't tell you how many brands I have literally purchased and bought through every item in their catalogue, listened to them, and returned what wasn't to my liking. And while some of the lower-end offerings punch above their weight, I have truly not met a low-end option match their TOTL brethren. But again, some care more about this than others which is what this hobby is all about anyway. Hell, I still own and use my Shure 215s as I just love them. They're my oldest IEM at 7 years for a good reason. Same with the Pinnacle PX/P1, iBasso IT01, Campfire Comet, etc. They are quite impressive for what your dollar can go for nowadays but even just stepping up to something mid-tier shows how far behind they are. Admittedly, there are some days where I find my mid-tier gear just as good as some TOTL gear and that's what gets me scratching my head.
Jan 18, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 18, 2019
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jaydunndidditI have Andromeda's and run them with the UE buffer https://pro.ultimateears.com/adjustable-ambient-filters-248.html seems to fix impedance issue at the cost of some headroom. My dream IEM would be the Andromeda mids and highs with the Shure se846 bass and earpiece. I meant that over $300 dollars you start to pay a lot to get what appears like small improvements to the common listener. I have HD800s, LCD2, Beyer T1, Focal Elex, HD650, se846, Andromeda, and many other including the se214(which are enjoyable, but lacking detail for my liking) MY first IEM was Shure e3c back in 2005, but they broke once trying to replace the tip(be sure to pull up, not sideways when removing tips from IEM. I agree that cost does not mean everything and like OP I love the HD650 sound. A good IEM for that sound is the Toneking BL1.
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Jan 18, 2019
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jan 18, 2019
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jmahoneyWe have a lot of the same gear so I think our tastes align. I was not a fan of the Andro or Andro S which I promptly returned. I found them to be way too mid-centric and a bit shouty. Also not a fan of the texture of bass from balanced armatures. They just sound odd compared to a good DD. The Shure 846 is my one exception but they have that ingenious low pass setup. They're honestly the only pure BA IEM I can listen to nowadays. Otherwise, it's single DD or a hybrid. I daily the Atlas or Lyra II and before that, the Vega. I have the Solaris now and really, really enjoy them and you can clearly see they are a love child of the Andro and Atlas. If you haven't sampled them, I think they'd be worth it and may fit that gap that you mentioned. They remind me a lot of my 2ch setup soundwise so I'm just happy to have something remotely similar on the go. Right now, I'm going down the path of planars before working over to electrostats. I'm am worried that I'm just too addicted to dynamic drivers to really fall in love with anything else. But, I guess we diverge on the 650. It is just too warm for my liking. I also wasn't a huge fan of the 800 and still prefer the 600 and 579. The 579 is such a weird beast as it is not technical or special in any way shape or form but it has such a relaxing sound that doesn't raise a single issue (much to its own demise for most). They're very unexciting but some days I need that break from hyper dynamic Focal's or bass heavy Fostex or kinda bright HiFiMan's. For the record, the Focal Elex and Clear are arguably my favorite over ear headphones, without question. If I ever had to reduce my collection, they would be the only ones to keep, without question. For my ears, tastes and music genres (very eclectic), they get everything done perfectly. The Elegia's are my current fave closed back as I have not heard anything quite like them on the go and they sound so much like a closed back Clear that it hurts (in a good way). Wish they had a bit more bass impact but that's me being picky (hence my love for that Fostex low-end ^_^).
Jan 18, 2019
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jan 18, 2019
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ShowpanI'd take anything on Rting's in regards to headphones with a heavy dose of salt after what they had to say about the M50x:
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Balanced and M50x do not belong in the same sentence let alone with critical listening in mind.
Jan 18, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 18, 2019
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jaydunndidditGood info. For Planars if you want to try an interesting openback IEM check out the audeze iSINE 10. I got some for $180 on sale. Also, the Toneking BL1 is a closed back planar IEM. I do not own closed back currently, but been eying some LCD-XC, but worried about weight.
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Jan 18, 2019
BT5K
3
Jan 18, 2019
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jaydunndidditI honestly couldn’t imagine spending more than $200. $100-150 would really be ideal.
Jan 18, 2019
BT5K
3
Jan 18, 2019
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AncientSwordI like a flat sound. I dont want anything enhanced. I want to hear everything as it was recorded. I have 2 pairs of headphones both Sennheiser. The HD6XX and then a pair of closed backs (dont know the model number). And a pair of M-audio studio monitors on my desk
Jan 18, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 18, 2019
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jaydunndidditOverall the m50x are very well balanced, they don't really have a big shortfall and deviation to Harman unlike quite a lot of other high end headphones. The only thing that probably bothers audiophiles is the bass hump which starts too high up hence causing some bloat and warmth or even muddiness to vocals. But once again your average bloke loves bass and would prefer a warm smooth sound , the m50x sales talks for itself, not to mention the numerous studios and musicians using it. The dip at 6k causes a perceived accentuation of the peak at 8.5k hence highs which may seem sizzly or overly boosted. Another shortfall is the overly boosted mids at 2k which can cause vocals to sound a bit overly forward, but I think this is a nice touch to compensate for the excessive mid bass hump or bass bleed. Another good all rounder is the Nad viso hp50 which I beleive aren't as popular due to higher price and the lack of treble energy or sparkle. Like the m50x It also has the mid bass bloat problem. Rting graph are pretty much on point, they are nearly identical to graphs of Tyll from Inner fidelity. Some of their opinions are questionable, I've bought the superlux hd668b by reading their raving reviews and many others on headfi saying they sound like the sennheiser hd600 when in fact they sounded terrible and shrill. I went back to examine the graph and found a dip at 4.5k and a peak at 5.5k which explains why it sounded so harsh. Theres also another ungainly peak at 8.6k. Rting on the other hand completely disregarded these peaks in their review. If you learn how to interpret the graphs yourself, accurate graphs can tell you everything about sound of headphones. Btw don't buy the audeze isine 10. They sound completely awful just by looking at the graph. That's literally why they usually come bundled with the "Cipher" cable which tries to correct the horrible frequency response so that it lines up exactly with the Harman curve. Basically they are selling you $350 junk and telling you to pay $100 more for this small digital signal processing box (which only works for Apple devices) so that it will sound good.
(Edited)
Jan 18, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 18, 2019
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ShowpanHave you even listened to the audeze isine 10 or are you just saying they suck off looking at a graph? I own them and use them with an lg v40 phone(no lightening cable) and they only need a little EQ, but I eq all my headphones to a degree. If you are interested in planars and IEMs then the iSINE are very interesting even if not perfect on a graph. Also, I got them $180 with lightening cable and analog cable.
Jan 18, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 18, 2019
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jmahoneyHere's a picture of the isine20 frequency response which I see is near identical to isine10, should even sound better due to higher price.  https://goo.gl/images/G1yxso Have a look at the bottom grey curve which is the raw response. Raw response should follow the Harman curve but evidently doesn't. Bass is completely flat which i understand may appeal to some who don't like much bass. But how is the odd peak at 1.5k and the multiple dips in the treble considered perfect? In fact it has a dip at 3k where it should be peaking. 3k peak is very important for vocal and instrumental presence. From my analysis I would say it sounds very laid-back and veiled with odd shoutyness from the 1.5k peak and some sharpness in highs due to an 11k peak. Overall it sounds anything but natural. Also if the frequency response was perfect explain the heavy digital processing needed from the "Cipher" cable to get it to look exactly like the Harman curve? Heres a picture of the curve when using the isine20 with the Cipher cable.  https://goo.gl/images/Lqu4zx Why would the engineers do that when it's "perfect"? 
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Jan 18, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 18, 2019
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ShowpanSO you haven't listened to them... Anyway, the bass is linear which makes it tight and extend all the way to 10Hz like most Planars. The bass is very good and I like bass it is just not a huge cheap bump at 200Hz. A little Eq up from 10Hz to 200Hz gives amazing bass There is a slight bump at 1 to 2k that I eq down I eq my HD800s does that mean they are not good. Also, the Harman curve sounds boring to some people. On top if that graphs are not of individuals ear so everyone hears the music different. If you try them and do not like them that is fine, but to say they are bad by looking at a graph is kind of foolish, since there is a lot more to music than in that graph. I am not saying the graph is pointless, but it is not the only data point needed to determine something is bad.
Jan 18, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 18, 2019
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jmahoneyYou may be the rare few people who like them but they do not sound natural at all. Perhaps you like the imaging, low distortion levels, or other technical aspects just how I like the micro detail coming from the unnatural sounding er3xr. Maybe you have some hearing problems or highly enjoy the linear bass, I'm not sure. But the isine will definitely not sound good to the majority population (which the Harman curve is based on, trials with a range of people) nor will it appeal to those who want a natural sound. I EQ can fix anything whats so bad about the Beats? Using EQ we could just reduce the bass and enhance treble? Have you heard of SONARWORKS? Why don't we just buy SONARWORKS and apply their EQ to all audio gear? Btw SONARWORKS adjust according to Harman curve.
Jan 18, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 18, 2019
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Showpanlol..you haven't even listened to them, but I have hearing issues now...anyway I think I am finished. Show me another Planar open backed IEM...there are not that many of them. The hobby has turned into looking into graphs and not actually using headphones. That graph is only looking at one aspect. Also, no EQ cannot fix any headphone or add 10Hz bass back into headphones, otherwise no one would use Planar headphones.
Jan 18, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 18, 2019
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jmahoneyI only asked you if you had hearing loss, never said you had hearing loss. No I cannot show you another planar open back iem, and it doesn't matter. If you like new and advanced technology that's fine, but sound wise I don't care how many drivers or what kind of driver, if it doesn't sound good, it just doesn't good. I wholeheartedly believe the very best sounding headphones and iems are usually the most expensive (although value is questionable) but there are some that are just bad like the isine10/20. Look at any high end 1000$+ headphone, they all have the fundamental 3-3.5k peak, it's there for a reason. Since you're done you should rethink your isine10 recommendation. If they sounded so good why did the iPhone cipher cable have heavy EQ, audeze could have just placed a simple dac and amp without EQ yet they didn't. That point hits the nail on the coffin. On the contrary if you had $450 to spare (includes Cipher iphone cable) AND only plan on using them with Apple products then buy it by all means, youll have one of the best sounding iem plus awesome planar characteristics though I'm not sure if the cable introduces more distortion etc which can negate the benefits of planar.
Jan 18, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 18, 2019
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ShowpanI already said they cost 180 now, not 450 with cipher cable. I already said I use them without the cipher cable, with an lgv40 phone and eq on the phone and they sound even better than with an iPhone and cipher cable which I have also listened to. My hearing is fine. The person said they are specifically interested in planar technology which actually has many benefits not visible in 1 graph. You are telling me they do not sound good, yet you have never listened to them. I own them and maintain my recommendation. If you are going to make all your assessment off graphs then learn to properly read them because you said based on the graph that the bass sounds bad or lacks and this is completely false. The bass maintaining a straight line from 200Hz all the way to 10Hz is a good thing. People use Planar technology specifically for their good tight subbass. You can not EQ back subbass if there is none like you suggested, but you can use EQ to remove a 2k Hz bump. I am done trying to convince you they sound good because you already made up your mind without listening to them, but I am not going to let you say I have hearing loss because I have listened to them and think they sound good.
(Edited)
Jan 18, 2019
Stunt
30
Jan 18, 2019
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BT5KBGVP DM6
Jan 18, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 18, 2019
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jmahoneyHmm I do see on camelcamel that they recently went on sale on Amazon for about $189 including Cipher which is a very good deal considering it usually costs $300-400usd. I apologise for the wrong pricing as I live in Australia where high end audio gear is pretty much always at RRP, $450usd is the current price for the iem plus cipher here in Australia. I do not disagree with how great the bass is as I have said the flat linear bass may appeal to some. Harman curve bass hump is known to be highly controversial and even I believe the bass hump can be very subjective. But mids and especially the 3khz peak you cannot get wrong. Once again I am not saying you have hearing loss just because you like the isine. Since you stated that you don't have any hearing loss then you probably like the iem due to some quirks such as it's nice linear bass you mentioned (or other planar characteristics), there's nothing wrong with that. BUT as a whole it's being greatly let down by unnatural treble. As a planar headphone owner I am highly aware of the great characteristics of planar such as linear impedance and exceptional imaging IF tuned correctly.
Jan 18, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 18, 2019
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ShowpanFair statement above, I think we are not going to fully agree, but we are on the same page. All the cipher cable does is allow you to have two preset DSP EQ setting stored on the cable so it follows the headphones. One EQ they describe is flat for "mastering" and the other as "For pleasure listening"(maybe Harmon curve not sure) Here is the EQ they recommend for what they default to for the iSINE 10 https://imgur.com/a/GKaeXRd and it is not as drastic as some make it out to be. I wish the cable was USB-c since I have no use for lightning connector, but I am doing fine with a normal cable and it is not a deal breaker for me. My only issue is not as much isolation as most IEM since it is open backed.
Jan 18, 2019
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jan 18, 2019
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ShowpanHave you actually listened to the m50x? I owned them. For a year or so actually before moving on. They are "fun" sounding but nothing I would call balanced. Graphs never tell the full story and only give us a glimpse into a headphones abilities. This is like judging a car based purely on dyno charts disregarding weight, drivetrain, etc. And even then, depending on the type of dyno used, that can cause even greater variation just like measuring rigs for headphones (Mustang dyno's are called the heart breaker and Dynojet the dream maker for a reason ). Since you've been mum on the matter, what gear do you currently own? I'm curious to know what your setup and stack is. If you're willing to share, that is. It just seems a lot of the gear you're talking about you have no real world experience with. And in this hobby, ownership and ear time counts for more than any graph could ascribe.
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Jan 18, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 19, 2019
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jaydunndidditYes I have listened to the m50x recently and way before I even knew anything about graphs. like I said from graphs there's mid bass bloat or bleed as hump start too high up in frequency range. When I listened before I knew graphs I felt bass was way to emphasised, I didn't even know what "bloat" was back then so that was the only opnion I could form. I still feel that way when I recently demoed them. What I said was considering the full frequency range they do a very good job beside that bass bloat which the mass population probably enjoy due to added warmth. What is unacceptable though is audio gear which cost hundreds or thousands and overall stray from Harman a lot more than m50x or some cheap consumer headphones. Regarding the car analogy there isn't that much to consider with headphones as car. Im not a car enthusiast at all but even with car I can probably tell how well a car performs by knowing center of mass, 0-60mph time, weight, the braking system (brake fluid chemistry, pad material, caliper design) etc., Theres a few more aspects to consider but I won't have time. But you see there's always some standard, reference, objectivism that can determine how you will feel SUBJECTIVELY about the car. Same for audio gear except there's not much to it, a car performs as a very complex system. With headphone you have only a few thing ago consider. Total harmonic distortion is negligible in this day and age. Pretty much all headphone not to specifically mention midfi to hifi has overall THD below 1% at 90db with perhaps 1 or 2 small spikes at certain frequencies due to resonance. Take note that this THD is at 90db you can only safely listen for 2-2.5hr (according to Westone and other sites) while other studies say 4hr. Also factor in noise from daily commute on bus, train or noisy streets etc. 90 is very loud, not sure how anyone can enjoy music at that level but maybe I'm just sensitive. Even at 90db, 1% THD is 0.9db of distortion, then consider that even the best headphones or iem have a 1-2db channel imbalance, not to mention the amount of noise around you (any open or semi open back would have zero isolation). The only other graphs to consider is impulse response, square waves, electrical impedance, and of course the frequency response graph. Square wave graphs essentially tell the sound characteristics just like frequency response graph. It can also tell quality of the sound e.g. loose bass or grainy treble etc. Electrical impedance graph can tell you what frequency can be lacking or amplified if you do not pair with the right impedance source. Some high end dynamic headphones such as hd6xx series have odd non linear impedance graphs, hence output impedance is very important as it can essentially act as an EQ. Planar is not picky with source as impedance is the same throughout the frequency range, so sound signature should stay the same regardless of source. I have demoed a whole bunch of headphones and everytime I have analysed the graphs after listening to them, it explained exactly why a certain headphone sounded good or too bassy or too bright etc. I can vouch that the best sounding or most pleasing sounding headphones followed the Harman curve very closely overall (from the lowest bass to the highs) and have a small spike at around 9-10khz. You also mention ownership time and listening hours, you realise that our brain can become accustomed to sound thus making even the worst sounding headphones become enjoyable overtime? Best way to know if you like a headphone or iem is to go out and briefly audition a bunch of them in one session, I am most certain the best sounding ones will overall follow Harman curve the most and you can pick them out within the first few seconds of listening. What do I currently own and use most? Source: Xiaomi 4x, Spotify (320kbps, 44khz or 48, 24bit) Headphones: Fostex t50rp (50ohm), Sony mdr-zx600 Iem: Xiaomi ANC 3.5mm version, Remax S1 pro, plextone x41m The iems are dirt cheap so do have quite a few faults which I am happy to explain with objective EVIDENCE from graphs. But overall they follow the Harman curve alright as they all have a bass hump, have the fundamental peaks at around 3khz, and roll off after the 3khz peak. Headphones also follow the Harman curve quite well overall. They also have some compromises which If you question me i can explain using graphs and a reference neutral curve (the Harman curve) why I chose them. Regarding source, if you can tell me you can hear a difference between 44khz and 90khz or Spotify 320kbps and some lossless file or 16 Vs 24 bit in a BLIND test, then i will build an altar for you. Regarding DAC, expensive external dac may have better clarity but dacs do not change the frequency response hence will not change sound signature I.e. it can't make headphones more bassy or brighter. The amp is adequate to drive my power hungry fostex to my listening level (6 or 7 volume notches out of 15 on my phone, 8 notches would be too loud for me). Technically speaking a good amp should not colour the sound in any way but I understand some do and people buy it as a kind of hardware EQ. Primarily its role is to provide enough power so that music can be heard at the users desired volume. But as I explained before, in some headphones with weird electrical impedance like the sennheisers may benefit from high impedance amps which would act as an EQ and boost the midbass. Last of all I am not the 'mum', feel free to call me that if that means putting some objectivism into this "hobby" which is infested with dubious marketing, hype, and people who spent so much money on overly expensive gear that their brains are wired to defend it even if it is junk or highly overpriced. Balanced cables, what are you really paying for?
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Jan 19, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 19, 2019
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jmahoneyFor me iem is for portable use and/or for isolation as it cannot rival headphones in sound or comfort although comfort could be subjective. So isolation is also one of the other gripes I have with the isine since iem are for on the go use and should provide good isolation. But if you're using it indoors or in quiet place then that's fine. Once again $189 is an absolute steal. At that price it would be on my wish list if it i wasn't for the awful Aussie dollar exchange rate or the cipher cable which only support Apple. Like you said they did release an EQ for it.
Jan 19, 2019
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jan 19, 2019
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ShowpanFirst off, I said you were being mum on the subject. By definition, I was saying you were being quiet or silent about your gear. I did use it as an adjective, after all. You are the furthest away from being objective as you're not being impartial and unbiased. By definition of the word, you're being the opposite and only throwing out your subjective opinion with a huge dose of arrogance and obstinance. And no, there is no amount of specs you could read or otherwise that could tell you the performance of a car on paper vs the real world. That is literally impossible. Measurement rigs do not mimic our anatomy 1:1, especially given how we all differ in this regard let alone if one wears glasses, has an odd shaped head, long hair, pad bounce, poor or too much damping, etc. The fact that you state a t50rp is being properly powered by your cellphone says a lot about what you think you know. That family of headphone is infamous for many reasons and one of them is being current hungry planars (much like all planars). You also seem to forget the importance of CSD, spectral, and step response plots are also important measures, amongst a few others. Which again, only help tell a different part of the story. But, I'm sure you already knew that as well too. They are to be used as measures to give additional context and nothing more. Again, all of which you seem to have little or no experience with yet seem to have all the answers  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Jan 19, 2019
antdroid
371
Jan 19, 2019
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ShowpanHarman Target curve are a somewhat subjective testing methodology to generalize headphones listening quality. It's still up to each user to decide if you like it or not but listening to it. I don't like the Harman curve. Its close but I prefer tighter bass response. The T50rp is a nice starter planar but it pales in comparison to the ones offered by hifiman and audeze. You need a lot of power to drive the t50rp too. It's more power hungry than my hifiman he560 and audeze sine.
Jan 19, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 20, 2019
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antdroidI agree Harman does have some set backs, it's not perfect but it is what ever evolving science and technology has come up with so far. Well I think it's much better to have some neutral reference like the Harman curve than have these review mayhems of "I hear this, he hears that, his ears must be f@#ked, blah blah". Harman is based on diffuse field curve and allows a sample of people to subjectively tweak an EQ till they find the sound most pleasing. Evidently there are many things that we could scrutinise such as how accurate the diffuse field curve is and also the statistics regarding the sample of people. I believe diffuse field measurements are pretty accurate especially the fundamental 3k-3.5k peak. The most popular vocal/midrange headphones and iems all have a beautiful curve from 1khz to 3khz. Hd6xx series, dt880, akg 701, he400, Etymotic earphones, just to name a few. I haven't read the full thesis on Harman curve but whether or not sample statistics were published it would intrigue me to know the sample size, statistical significance (hypothesis test) of the Harman curve (does it represent the general population?), demographics of the sample, standard deviations (what is the SD for bass, midrange, highs?) etc. Sorry if I'm wrong but from memory I think bass was still highly subjective, perhaps due to age related hearing loss (which greatly affects hearing high frequencies) of the older samples who "preferred on average less bass and more treble than younger listeners" according to Harman curve founder Sean Olive. That's why I previously raised my concerns on older reviewers who i understand may have more money to expend, hence they could be recommending expensive products that do not sound pleasing to the majority. But hey, maybe the majority of people on review sites/forums are 30+?? Reviewers should start stating not only their source (we know amps can colour the sound), but also their age, perhaps some report from an audiologist if they have one. Presbycusis (age related hearing loss) is inevitable and irreversible. Some day I will also resign to what I would now call bright sounding, no bass audio gear haha. Hopefully by then technology has advanced far enough that AI will be customising sound for each individual and we will no longer have the debate on what sounds "best". I'm not an electronic engineer so I lack knowledge on electronics and amps. But apart from external amps benefitting from lower distortion, why can't I use my phone when I can listen to my T50rp at above my comfort level with just 8 volume notches out of 15? I usually listen at 6-7 notches. The T50rp i own is the 50ohm version.
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Jan 20, 2019
antdroid
371
Jan 20, 2019
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ShowpanI honestly can't really explain it from a EE/Physics point of view. I am a Materials Engineer, maybe I should. But I cant claim I know it well enough to be believable. It's subjective, but from listening I find bass and dynamics improve with more power. And we're talking good clean power. Many cheaper amps and phone amps can raise power, but can it do it cleanly without distortion? Cheaper amps, or should I saw, poorly implemented amps, will distort with more gain. Headroom becomes an issue then. Planar drivers typically require quite a bit more power to drive than other dynamics. The T50RP may be 50 Ohm resistance, but IIRC the Sensitivtiy is in the 80s and low 90s (depending on which frequency), which is pretty low. Anyway, I personally prefer lower bass response than the Harman curve. I prefer something closer to the Diffuse Field curves that were previously used. The newer ones have increased bass, and lowered treble. I do agree that age can change things as well. Some of it is hearing loss, and some of it is just changes in style of music you listen to or other factors. I probably wanted BASSSSSSSSSS when I was younger thnking that was cool, but as I grew up and refined my music choices, I tend to like a very linear response (diffuse field linear). The Hifiman HE560 is pretty much my sound signature of choice. I listen to the Focal Elex more though and it's a tad brighter, but it has similar sound signature in general, but amazing dynamics and controlled bass. Anyway, I want to get this Kanas Pro model. I think I need it. It looks too pretty and yes, the signature looks nice. PS> I started doing my own reviews recently on my site, antdroid.net, and I mix measurements, compensated and raw, with my own listening thoughts, and comparisons. I think this is the way to go personally, as it gives objective and subjectivity to the review. Not everything can be explained by a simple FR curve.
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Jan 20, 2019
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jan 20, 2019
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ShowpanIn short as I stated above, the t50rp and pretty much every other planar (there are a few exceptions) crave and want gobs of current. More than your cell phone can provide. It simply lacks the power and additional headroom to push those drivers as intended. The combination of LOW Impedance (53 ohms) and a LOW sensitivity (89 dB/mW) requires a ton of current to drive to it's maximum potential. The ~50 ohm rating tells you that you need current to make them sound their best. Just because something gets loud does not mean it's being driven properly and those t50rp drivers have a max power rating of something stupid like 3W. HiFiMans are propbably the most power hungry planars I can think of but the Fostex planars are up there as well. The MrSpeakers are another prime example as they look easy to drive on paper and yet crave much more power than you would think. You have to factor in the dynamic range of music at it's peak. Even more so if you listen to classical as that range can be as much as +/-30 dB. So, while you would never listen at that volume for an extended amount of time, you're factoring for bursts and transients . Otherwise, the drivers are not going to have enough power to render them correctly. This is the same issue with the 6XX and their perceived "veil" as they crave a ton of voltage when you factor in the potential dynamic range of your music and their big voltage swings. The higher impedance Beyer's and some AKG's exhibit this as well.
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Jan 20, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 20, 2019
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antdroidThanks for educating me on the amp, I might go out and demo some amps soon. I'm am all for reviewers listening but they should have some reference to frequency curve or some other graph to back up what they hear, so what you are doing is great. Im pretty sure I've came across some of your reviews before. But I am not going to believe any reviewer who says a headphone or iem sounds natural and pleasing when let's say there is a dip at 3-3.5khz. They may really really like the imaging or bass or whatever quirks. That is fine, but the overall tonal balance cannot be right.
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Jan 20, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 20, 2019
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jaydunndidditIsn't power a function of current AND voltage? At the beginning you say my fostex need lots of current, then at the end when you talk about hd6xx you say they need lots of voltage? Power = voltage multiplied by current. You can get more power by either increasing voltage OR current. By ohm's law I=V/R. Impedance is essentially resistance, by dropping resistance (lower impedance) you get an increase in current, on the other hand you can also increase voltage to increase current if resistance is constant. As we know the expensive hd6xx series have weird electrical impedance graph (massive hump in the bass which explains the rolled off bass with no hump), funny that many cheaper dynamic headphones have close to flat impedance. Basically you will have to shell out more money on a powerful (high max wattage) amp with high output impedance to get that bass back. But I think I read somewhere that low output impedance was best for a good impulse response so it's a bit of a double edge sword with a high impedance amp. Etymotics also has this problem with the Er series where impedance rises in the highs, which explains why some people say it lacks sparkle, this is also reflected in frequency graph. Maybe thats why tube amps are so popular and some say they sound more pleasing as they act as a sort of EQ since they generally have higher output impedence (especially transformerless tube amps). About dynamic range, you say there's not enough power and also that this is why sennheiser sound veiled. Yes of course if you turn anything up high enough the lack of amplitude at certain frequencies (i.e. dips or roll offs in the frequency curve) will become more audible. That was why there were so many articles and concern about kids hearing loss when iPods first came out. You have these earbuds with extremely rolled off bass, young people love bass, hence they will blast their music so loud that the rolled off bass becomes audible. Also isn't it funny that the top of the line headphones are open or semi open back? With virtually no isolation you already lost 30db of dynamics as a silent room is already 30db. This is another reason why people might need a more powerful amp to blast these headphones louder. Hello hearing loss.
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Jan 20, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 20, 2019
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ShowpanYou are wayyy too obsessed with frequency response graphs lol...there is more to a headphone than frequency response. First impedance can not be changed and is based on headphones. There is also output impedance which is based on your amp which you want to be as low as possible, but ignore that for now. Anyways, Fostex have low value of 89.28 dB/mW SPL so then need more current to get louder, but their ohm is 53.64 Ohm so they don't need as much voltage. HD650 is 300ohm so it needs more voltage. Also, impedance is not linear across all frequency so if you do not have enough voltage then only part of the frequency will be messed up. I am leaving out tons so read https://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html


Jan 20, 2019
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jan 20, 2019
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Showpan@jmahoney I was about to link to the exact same article, ha ha. @Showpan , there are many variations of TOTL headphones, many of which are closed back. As I sated many comments above, the Fostex TH900 mk2, MrSpeakers Ether C Flow 1.1, Focal Elegia, Sennheiser HD 820, Beyerdynamic T5p, ZMF Eikon, AKG 872, Sony Z1R, Audio Technica ATH-L5000, Stax 4070 (vintage but still very cool), Audeze LCD-XC, Denon AH-D9200, etc. These are all TOTL closed back headphones and are of great quality in build and sound. Again, it seems as if you are doing more reading than experiencing and I highly encourage you to just get out there and listen to as much gear as you can. You're making a ton of assumptions that quite frankly, just isn't true and doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm not going to touch on the other points you're mentioning as the article jmahoney linked to covers it all and more. You're not understanding what range is when I'm talking about music recordings and the effect it will have on transients due to average volume as they can be as high as 20-30 dB depending on how the music was recorded. And I'm not going to even go into amp and DAC measurements as that's too big of a conversation to start, but there's so much more to this than just FR graphs. We could talk ad nauseum about cleaning up the AC/DC power vs battery power to said devices, or the quality of the interconnects in your system and the role all that plays, IMD, amp linearity, damping factor, etc. before getting into the actual specs and measurements of said devices. No amount of reading is going to give you the insight you're looking for but real world experience will. A more powerful amp is about more than just getting something loud, but control and headroom to prevent clipping and distortion. Having extra headroom allows the amp to not work as hard and be sure it has the power for transient bursts and power/impedance swings from whatever is being played.
Jan 20, 2019
Fluxor1
7
Jan 20, 2019
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BT5Kiem does not mess up your hair and effect the after you wake up in the morning look.
Jan 20, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 20, 2019
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jaydunndidditWhich is your favorite closed back between TH900mk2, Ether C Flow, Focal Elegia, and Audeze LCD-XC? I have been meaning to get a pair of TH900mk2 and LCD-XC, but been more interested in IEMs and Open Backs. I also just got a RME adi-2 DAC which I was planning to pair with the THX AAA 789, but to be honest the Amp on the RME adi-2 is amazingly good , particularly the 3.5mm IEM outlet which is the only thing that has made the andromeda silent for me without the buffer. The only thing missing from the RME adi-2 is the balanced outputs, but the unbalanced are so good I don't know if I need them.
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Jan 20, 2019
Showpan
19
Jan 21, 2019
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jmahoneyOn AnandTech website it says an iPhone 6 can drive a 150ohm load to 92db with THD of 0.0032% (inaudible) and power output of 6.6mw. Iphone 6 should be very similar to my iPod touch 5 and Xiaomi 4x phone. My Xiaomi 4x also has DIRAC sound which does some amazing DSP, it sounds wayyy better than my iPod touch 5 and computer. The difference is drastic when I turn DIRAC sound off on the Xiaomi 4x. Headphonestys online power calculator also states I can use an iPhone 6 when listening to my Fostex at 100db, volume that I probably never listen at even with classical music (yes I listen to classic, I'm a trained classical pianist). Any short burst of sound at 100db (jack hammer equivalent) would be uncomfortable, even if the track is mixed soft let's say 90db bursts at max, that is still equivalent to an quiet petrol lawn mower. Nevertheless I will do independent calculations and further research for my phone and iPod touch 5 to verify if they do in fact meet the t50rp power requirements. Your analysis of an amp is also correct, you just briefly rehashed what I said in my previous comment. Except the part you say my fostex don't need as much voltage. Maybe you mean when compared to other higher impedance headphones, which definitely need more voltage to overcome the high resistance (impedance). But like I explained with formula, by increasing voltage you will increase current, Ohm's law, it's a relationship. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's literally what an amp does, increases voltage which will in turn raise the current. Regarding graphs I am just trying to tell you that graphs can indeed say alot about audio gear, especially frequency response graph. Everything I have said with my graph analysis of an audio gear has been backed up by my listening experience with them (apart from your isine) or backed up by the general consensus of other reviewers. On the other hand the only reasoning you provided me was 'ive listened to them, they are good because I said so'. What evidence do you have that your ears are any better or worse or that you are unbiased? I thought you were done with me, perhaps you're still replying due to our disagreement on how the isine10 sounds. Well here's a review of the Audeze LCDi4, the top of the line planar earphones from audeze which SHOULD definitely sound better. He even gives you an audio sample using his recording rig if you're not interested on his subjective opinions. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mGVNhei-JYU Reviewer also talks about the isine10 and may convince you that graphs really do matter. Keep in mind this video was only released a few hours ago so the many comments i made on the isine were formulated before watching this. Please watch the video, if it is to long, skip to the audio demo parts or skim through his opinions, this guy is pretty straight forward, he will tell you if it's bad straight away in first few minutes. Or simply watch it to warn me that I shouldn't be watching such horrible reviewer if he is indeed bad. On ending notes, I see you mentioned about wanting balanced output, that pretty much rest my case on how dubious marketing is.
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Jan 21, 2019
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jan 21, 2019
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jmahoneyEasy, the Elegia. They're relatively flat, but I actually don't own (or have heard) any other closed back with their sort of FR, resolution, and dynamics. They're pretty unique in that regard and have that same loudspeaker sound and awesome clarity. Compared to so many other sets, I am always finding a new sound, or chord, or singer pop out in music I have been listening to for years. And what I find remarkable is their imaging as stuff just pops in and out all round you. For a closed back headphone, they do a good job of splitting the difference while offering good isolation. Throw in their accessories and stellar build quality (leather and metal) and you have a headphone that's actually worth its sticker price. They really sound similar to a closed back version of the Clear. And much like the Clear, they aren't genre specific and just sound good with everything which I can't say about their competition. If you're in need of dat bass, the TH900 has it in spades. Quite literally, the only headphone that sounds like my 15" woofers (they can go as low as 4 hz!!) and give you a wonderful head/face massage with their sub-bass prowess and impact. The mids are a bit recessed and the treble can come in hot on some tracks but it's not often enough to bother my enjoyment of them. They also look absolutely stunning in real life but they don't isolate well whatsoever due to their venting. I also wish the headband was of better quality but they are quite comfortable. And the included accessories are lackluster for the price point. Also don't like the hinges, but I'm being nitpicky. The Ether's I had a very short time with and was quite unimpressed. They remind me a lot of the Aeon Flow Closed, albeit more airy. I ultimately returned the AFC as they just have a graininess about them that I do not enjoy. Build quality is top notch however and they feel and look good. Just a shame as I wish they had a sound more pleasing to my ears. Same sort of story with the LCD-XC; had a very short amount of time with them as well. However, they don't sound bad at all. Quite neutral to be honest. However their weight is a constant reminder and they are a closed back meant for home. And while they are quite airy and have a nice presentation, there is some funkiness going on in the midrange I can't quite put into words. It's just, odd (to these ears). Not bad, just different. They also have excellent build quality and accessories so I don't want that fact to go unwarranted. They're also coming down a bit in price so if the midrange doesn't bother you, I prefer them over the MrSpeakers if you were looking for a TOTL closed back planar. Still, I enjoy the Elegia the most as to me, they do the actual job of a closed back and cover build quality, isolation, and true portability as they can be powered by a hamster on a wheel and sound amazing. Also, they have one of the nicest semi-hard cases I have ever owned. It's super swanky and much more spacious than you would think (holds my adapters, 2 cables, and spare pads). Also, kudos on the RME. I have been eyeing that for a while now to pair with the THX as well. I have the SMSL SU8 currently and honestly, I don't think the RME would be a large enough difference sonically to warrant picking it up too (despite it being a great unit). I am interested in some of its features but find it hard to get an amp/dac as I just prefer separate units.
Jan 21, 2019
jmahoney
38
Jan 21, 2019
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jaydunndidditThanks for the detailed reviews! Looks like I will be adding both the Elegia and TH900 to the wish list. How close will the th-x00 get you to the TH900? I think you confirm my concern with the LCD-XC that they are a bit too heavy, but they look so good and I bet they sound nice. I think I will pass on those. The RME is worth its price and I was hesitant, but no regrets there, but I bet the SMSL/THX stack gets you to the same place minus a few perks like the parametric EQ. I EQ all my headphones and feel it is foolish people trash EQ, like I said I EQ my HD800s and they can EQ almost anyway you like without complaining. I am interested to see the Topping D70. Thanks again for your time. The reviews were helpful.
Jan 21, 2019
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jan 21, 2019
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jmahoneyHappy to help. I have the TRX00 Ebonies and they are flatter/softer V-shaped next to the TH900. Less energetic, bass not of the same quality, but the mids are more prominent. If I had to put it simply, they remind me of a more laid-back TH900 (just for comparison's sake) sans the technicalities and superior low-end. Not bad at all, just different. I also hate the stock TRX00 pads with a fiery passion. I have some sheepskin TH900 pads on them so my opinion may be a bit different to others. For me, it lifted my enjoyment of them as I just couldn't wear them for long in stock form. I don't have big ears by any means but the TH600 style pads are not my cup of tea and have the ear opening for a child's ears. Also, the Ebony wood looks gorgeous. Just really, really good and changes color depending on how the light hits them. Some days, they look almost completely black with little grain showing and other days you can see their wonderful grain and they have a nice deep chocolate color to them. Yeah, the RME is solid and has PEQ if I remember correctly. The display, remote, and other options are top-notch as well. For me, I'm truly putting the dollars aside for the iFi Pro iCAN and iFi Pro iDSD. The latter is a dac/amp but has so many damn features built-in that I want that for once, I am willing to take the L on separate components. And the iCAN was love at first listen. I borrowed my buddies for a couple of months and just got lost in al the configurations that it had for each individual IEM and headphone I threw it at. It was effortless and having both tube and SS stages was just wonderful. For me, that's my end game but there are a few headphones I want before I go down that path (as the THX/SU8 stack is quite good for the moment). Pretty much looking to pick up the TH909 or a TH900 mk2 Blue Sapphire, Klipsch Heritage HP-3, Focal Clear--again (regretfully sold), ZMF Eikon, and a Denon of some sort (because nostalgia and collecting). After that, I already have plans to sell off a ton of gear that I have outgrown and think this will be my listening stable for a good while. Maybe pick up an electrostat down the line but I know that's a whole nother ball game...
Jan 21, 2019
antdroid
371
Jan 22, 2019
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jmahoneyI second the vote for the Elegia. I love it. It's just a great sounding closed back that does not sound like a closed back. It's very DF neutral and shares many similarities to the Focal lineup. The RME is my next big purchase. I have the Monolith THX-AAA dac/amp which is like almost there with some of its features, but the RME has that beautiful display. :)
Jan 22, 2019
AudioFreek
4
Jan 24, 2019
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BT5KI agree with the fact that over the ear headphones with an amp sound wayyy better than any iems..However, I have purchased a few iems from massdrop...I enjoy the DD types the best. Balanced armatures contain too much treble and lack good quality punchy bass. Iems that fit and have bass are incredible!!!
Jan 24, 2019
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