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Penwino
0
Jun 22, 2016
I'm new to dual mono amplifier setups, but just out of curiosity how to you guys set them up, I don't own a pair of balanced headphones, can I use an adapter such as a 3.5mm Male To Dual XLR Female Cable to power, say a pair of SHP9500?
famish99
18
Jun 23, 2016
PenwinoThe short answer is no. The long answer is you could, but you could blow something up.
If you're not going to go through the trouble to recable your headphones to balanced operation (or buy a pair that are) then just buy one amp, but typically you want headphones to cost more than your gear, not the other way around.
Penwino
0
Jun 24, 2016
famish99Thanks dude, I did some research and got my head around it. I bought a pair of nighthawks and am looking into buying a balanced cable from audioquest, and a couple of these :)
famish99
18
Jun 24, 2016
PenwinoWhat DAC/source do you have?
Pzark41
4
Jun 24, 2016
famish99I'm also curious. I'd like to pick up a decent DAC that won't break the bank
famish99
18
Jun 24, 2016
Pzark41Well if you want balanced, there's that TEAC being dropped right now (less than a day left) that looks decent for the price.
With audio, people have different definitions of breaking the bank so you may want to specify what's yours lol.
(I personally run a NAD C510+Schitt Mjolnir 2 at home, but I'm interested in picking up a pair of these for my work setup).
Vigrith
4081
Jun 24, 2016
Pzark41As said the TEAC being dropped is quite decent, I personally use a Matrix Mini-i Pro and have a MHDT Labs Stockholm Balanced V2 on order. Depends on what you consider to break the bank, the Matrix has a regular version that goes for under $400, the MHDT goes for about the price of a Schiit Gungnir (also balanced), ergo a little under 1k.
Pzark41
4
Jun 24, 2016
VigrithI was thinking more along the lines of $150. And isn't the TEAC a DAC/AMP combo, wouldn't I be wasting $$ on the unused AMP portion since I would already own the NuForce HA-200 amp.
Vigrith
4081
Jun 24, 2016
Pzark41I think the absolute cheapest solution with balanced outs is the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, it's around $100. I've heard good things about it, it's such a small device that I'm not sure it is a truly balanced device but it will work and give you the benefits of the NuForce monoblock. Definitely worth reading about it at least, though if you're pondering a 400 (600+ outside massdrop) monoblock the 100 dollar DAC might bottleneck your chain a little bit but you can always upgrade later. :)
upintheclouds
37
Jun 25, 2016
Pzark41There are two TEAC products. The AI-101DA is a DAC/AMP with bluetooth, and doesn't have any line out (except a mono summed and unfiltered for a sub), just speaker or headphone, so it couldn't feed an external headphone amp. The UD-301 is a dual mono DAC with RCA and XLR outputs, it has no speaker outputs or analog inputs, it's just a DAC and optionally a preamp.
famish99
18
Jun 25, 2016
Pzark41Yeah at $150 you'll have the bottleneck at the DAC by far. Balanced DACs aren't cheap because you have to essentially double the circuitry. At that price range you may not even notice the difference between single ended and balanced operation to be brutally honest.
I have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 on my desktop but I use it more for the recording properties than music listening because the detail retrieval is pretty low, my JDS Labs C5D sounds better than it by a long shot.
famish99
18
Jun 25, 2016
VigrithI'd say another good sub $1k DAC is the Yulong D200
Pzark41
4
Jun 26, 2016
famish99You'll have to forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between balanced and unbalanced DAC's. I googled it and only found long complicated answers. Is there any way you could briefly explain it?
Uzuzu
1431
Jun 26, 2016
Pzark41balanced doesn't matter unless you are running 30 foot cables between your components or are recording in a studio. The signal out of an rca and balanced will sound exactly the same.
Vigrith
4081
Jun 26, 2016
UzuzuHow come there's so much market for balanced headphones cables and amplifiers then? Not talking about recording studios, I'm talking home usage - I'm not asking a rhetorical question or being snide, I'm genuinely curious, I am aware of the arguments that tend to be made by "audiophiles" in favour of balanced vs SE, I've read it all. I have several SS as well as tube setups, some fully balanced, some SE, - they undoubtedly all sound different, however my SS solutions do not offer both SE *and* BAL in the same so that I can compare 1:1. The money difference between going balanced as opposed to settling for SS was pretty much irrelevant to me so there was no reason to pass it up, plus I prefer XLR connectors over RCA/quarter inches due to sturdiness and secure connections regardless.
So are you talking in absolute terms and are 100% certain and positive that there is zero difference between a balanced DAC - balanced amp - balanced headphone cable compared to a single ended version of the same devices? Do you also believe power chords, USB/RCA/XLR and headphone cables (litz, OCC, copper, hybrid, pure silver) do not impact sound at all? Everyone going balanced in their home and buying after-market cables are wasting money?
I'm not trying to discredit you or anything like that, it's just an interesting topic to me!
famish99
18
Jun 26, 2016
UzuzuWell you'd need a balanced source if you were wanting to run a pair of these amps in dual mono mode though.
famish99
18
Jun 26, 2016
UzuzuAlso depends on how much noise rejection you need/desire. Going differential does usually afford you a much lower noise floor
Penwino
0
Jun 26, 2016
famish99Looking at buying the Fostex HP-A4BL (the A4 with balanced output)
famish99
18
Jun 27, 2016
PenwinoWhen I looked it up, it only seems to have a balanced headphone output not necessarily an balanced line out, but it may be the cheaper option than going for a pair of these HA-200+DAC.
I'm looking at getting either the Yulong D200 or Emotiva DC-1 to go along with the HA-200 pair.
famish99
18
Jun 27, 2016
VigrithWell I think the fact that we use the term balanced for device interconnect and headphone termination does cause a bit of confusion.
For device interconnect going balanced is useful for noise rejection because it typically affords you around 6dB more SNR. For most non recording applications I'd agree it's not *needed* but I do it anyways because it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside and a decent XLR cable costs less than "audiophile" single ended cables (I'm not a huge believer in exotic cables. If you want to know why, I will be all to willing to give that rant).
However for headphone cabling it's less about noise rejection than other factors (a small amount of noise applied against a very large signal is going to get washed out, or if you leave your cell phone on top of the cable, you're going to hear it regardless since that's one hell of a noise source) but more about maximizing amplifier potential. It's not the end all solution since you're paying for twice the circuitry that could have been dedicated to making a better single ended amp. But some headphones, like orthos, tend to like the power and extra slew rate that going for a balanced connection can afford.
Uzuzu
1431
Jun 27, 2016
Vigrithsounds the same. Only a faulty cable will sound bad. At the very least I know all copper and hybrid cables are going to sound the same. Cables shouldn't be what matters, but rather the dac/amp and cans. Only a defective or impure cable will sound different and in a bad way.
famish99
18
Jun 27, 2016
UzuzuWell remember, again with a balanced headphone connection, assuming you have a fully balanced amp, you're getting a different amp topology altogether between balanced vs single-ended, leading to a different sound (not necessarily better, but YMMV, as with this entire hobby).
But yes in terms of cable material, I agree with your statements 100%. I've had the misfortune of accidentally destroying a oscilloscope probe that costs more than a brand new Camry, and lo and behold, it's just copper on the inside, so material isn't really all that important especially when the termination/connection is where most of the capacitance comes to play.
TheHun
102
Jun 28, 2016
VigrithYeah there are a lot people out there who have more money than sense, so naturally there is a market for them. Yes power cables and fancy silver and all those funny sounding named interconnects and even headphone cables are waste of money and pity those fools who falls for those claims. Balanced amps are a good way to push more power to certain power hungry HP's of course one could do with powerful SE designs as well. but like in this case 2 unit quadruples the power of a single unit running it in SE mode. I bought two of these at the last drop and very happy with th it. Even a single unit at $199 for SE operation is a bargain IMO comparing what's out there.
Villy
68
Jun 29, 2016
TheHunHun, dude, look up the word 'ignorance' in the dictionary
famish99
18
Jun 29, 2016
TheHunI agree about the more money than sense, but that's unfortunately a lot of this hobby though since there's so much perception that comes into play.
As an electrical engineer who's worked in both telecom and power industries, I also agree that there are very few cables in the world worth paying over $100 for (assuming short lengths anyway). As long as it's mechanically sound, wired and terminated properly, the cable will do its job.
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