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T_Good
46
Jul 18, 2016
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This isn't all-tube. I haven't tried to find the schem for the loop(s), but there are no rectifier tubes for the power, so this is not all tube. Also, the gain in that Reverb.com demo doesn't sound right for an all-tube signal path. Go look up a 5E3 for a true all-tube design. I'd bet a dollar there's sand in those loops, tho.
That said, this looks like an interesting alternative to something similar from China or Korea.
Jul 18, 2016
PixelPusher21
139
Jul 19, 2016
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T_GoodIt is all tube but it's an amp made for hard hitting crunchy metal not saggy 70s Rock. Almost zero amps in this genre use rectifiers because of this sag that happens as they try to catch up under load to convert ac to dc. Fender twin reverbs have never used rectifiers because they would never be able to have the headroom at volume they have with a rectifier and no one is ever going to claim those are not tube amps.
Jul 19, 2016
NumberEight
16
Jul 19, 2016
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T_GoodYeah, agreeing with PixelPusher21 that plenty of amplifiers, especially high gain amplifiers use solid state rectification, both classic and modern. Tons of industry standard tube amps use solid state rectification. The 5150 line, Marshall Plexis and JCMs, Soldano Amps, The Bogner Uberschall and hell, the whole point of the Dual Rectifier is that you have multiple options available.
For that matter, what are you looking for in an effects loop? I use a 5150+ as my main stage amp, and while it has a tube loop, I don't like it any better than amps I've played with solid state or even digital effects loops. Personally, I'd rather maintain the integrity of my pre-amp signal.
Massdrop has said a lot of times that they do the best business in the entry-level Price point. I don't think you're going to be finding anything hand-wired or ultra-boutique here, unfortunately.
Jul 19, 2016
T_Good
46
Jul 19, 2016
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PixelPusher21I'm just shooting down marketing mumbo-jumbo. It's not all-tube. It is a tube amp; just like a JCM900, a Fireball, or any other amp using tubes in the preamp and power stages. I think you missed putting "tube" in front of the word "rectifier" in your response. All the amps you mention use rectifiers. Also, using a tube rectifier does not mean an amp has to have sag - they can be designed with adequate capacitance to supply the rest of the stages, but it was not cheap for Fender to do so in the 50s, and it makes little sense to do so today. I'm not sure what you think headroom has to do with rectification.
Jul 19, 2016
PixelPusher21
139
Jul 19, 2016
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T_GoodYou are right about the forgetting to put Tube in front of the word Rectification since rectifying is the process the circuit is doing, but I am right about the fender amp and why a tube rect would not work and the reasons for using the diodes instead. A the Fender TR would not be able to maintain the clean sound and clarity at volume and maintain the headroom with a tube rect. Part of the sound that people love from tube rectifiers is that the sound sags and compresses and then blooms once the tube rectifier catches up. That compression is by definition a loss of headroom. The whole reason for Dual Rectifiers in some amps was to negate the Sagging which also defeats the purpose of using a Tube rectifier in modern tube amps since the only reason for using a tube rectifier is to recreate that effect from vintage amps.
Jul 19, 2016
PixelPusher21
139
Jul 19, 2016
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NumberEightHey No.8 I actually really want the 5 watt Conqueror combo amp by these guys, Panama Guitars, its completely hand wired and the combo has both a 12 inch speaker and attenuator for about 400 dollars. That's an insane price for a true boutique amp. Oh and for T-Good, this one uses a Tube Rectifier because that is the sound they designed it for. If that one was on here I would have ordered it in a heart beat as I need a "pretty", nice sounding tube amp for my Epiphone Sheraton just so I can jam at home at reasonable sound levels.
Jul 19, 2016
T_Good
46
Jul 19, 2016
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PixelPusher21I think you are misled by more marketing info here. Given the correct design, four 6L6GCs could be been pushed to the same DC voltage and have the same current availability with a tube rectifier that silicon diodes achieved. Thus achieving the same headroom. Given the same transformer, beam tetrodes, capacitors, and load resistors, a tube rectifier would obviously not produce the same DC/current and be susceptible to sag. The reason they used silicon diodes in the Twin Reverb was to be able to reuse their off the shelf transformer that they already used in other models to achieve a louder amp on the cheap. A sagging, compressing amp can also be made using silicon diode rectification. Please go read Merlin Blencowe and Richard Kuehnel's books before repeating more marketing language.
Jul 19, 2016
T_Good
46
Jul 19, 2016
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PixelPusher21Yeah, that looks like a nice take on a Champ copy. I kind of wish they had a voicing switch for when it's turned up, though. A single ended 6V6 can be made to sound better than that when broken up. The tough part is getting good tones for both cleans and overdrive when there are so few components to voice the amp with only two signal chain tubes.
Jul 19, 2016
PixelPusher21
139
Jul 20, 2016
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T_GoodI did not read any marketing language, everything I said was accurate . As to the reason they used them to begin with, you may be right, I did not look up the history, but the end result was an amp that is prized for the exact reasons I mentioned and I do happen to know that the evolution of the twin reverb was always for a loud clean signal that did not break up until you turned it up very very loud. Perhaps I should have said "Clean" headroom to appease the semantic gods. And by the way, both of your name dropped amp designers talk in length about tube rectifier sag, the compression and the loss of headroom, and how that actually defines the great amps that used them and also the ones that use diodes instead. In fact I bet there are a lot of metal players that prefer a solid state over a tube amp for precisely this reason. Most of them get their tone through pedals that push amps with huge clean overhead volume that does not sag. And that amp does look pretty nice.. Hand wired means you can use your books to easily mod it :) Its a one trick pony for sure, but its the one trick I want to look pretty in my living room when I just want to have some fun on my guitar.
Jul 20, 2016
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