Panzera Breuer 42 Automatic Watch Discussions | Drop

Sep 3, 2017

while i nice bauhaus look, the movement is indefensible in any watch over $175 in my opinion.
1. seconds hand is 'indirect' drive, meaning with strong movement of the wrist the seconds hand will stutter and stop up to 2 seconds, though usually a bit less. while this does not affect accuracy, it is not something you pay for in even a $200 watch. 2. no hacking. the movement will not hack. meaning you cannot stop the watch and set the time...you need to set the time while running. again, something you might pay $100 to $150 for.
there are other things that could be mentioned, like a German sounding watch designed as if it is European/German (it is a wonderful case if you do like Bauhaus design, beautifully done) with the cheapest Citizen Japanese movement they make put into to it. rugged movement for sure, but anyone buying this watch is doing so for aesthetic reasons and the aesthetics don't add up, for me anyway.
also the lower beats per minute, which is not a deal breaker, but again something to be aware of...you will not be getting a nice sweeping seconds hand (especially if you shake your wrist). while that does possibly save wear on the movement over time, anyone buying a Bauhaus watch is into aesthetics, possibly, and the choppy seconds is not in that vein.
only the numbered issues are reasons that i would not purchase this piece at anything over $175 at most. the other two issues are something people should be aware of. i hate posting comments that may deter people from buying a watch here, as i love to support massdrop, but anything $200 or above for this piece is, again in my opinion, not supported. if Panzera wanted to command that type of money they could very easily have used the Miyota 9015 series caliber which does offer hacking, does not have a stuttering seconds hand, and offers a higher beats per minute sweep that matches an ETA movement. this is not a knock on massdrop, but the manufacturer which appears a bit greedy for what they are offering. the 9015 series movement would have set them back at most another $50 per watch at manufacturer's price, but would show some respect for the customer which i do not see here. the undiscounted price on their website is over $500, which is simply a ridiculous price made to be discounted, but even the $350 here, which is the going price or less everywhere else, is not a good deal unless you simply have to have this. i have bought lower grade miyota movements in a few watches for which i loved the design, but the stuttering seconds hand always reminds me what a mistake that was and i just don't wear them.
sorry to be a downer, but aimed more at the manufacturer on this one. why build what is truly a beautiful watch, and stick a mediocre engine in it, and then try and command a higher price from people who may not be aware of the lower specs?

Sep 3, 2017

Discobill

Sep 3, 2017

johnnyjohnnySorry johhny but I got to agree with comment above. I also have a Flieger pilot from PANZERA with the 21600bpm movement and I don't get any stutter on the second hand. Also I believe the brand is from Australia not Europe

Sep 3, 2017

Sep 4, 2017

Discobillmy point wss that the name is indeed all that is European about the watch...and you make my point. as for the famous miyota calibre 8000 series second hand stutter...google it and you will understand the issue...it is a fact of the movement. if people still like and buy the watch that is great...i am just saying it is anything but a deal and people should know what they buy.

Sep 4, 2017

JTrubs

195

Sep 4, 2017

johnnyjohnnyExcellent posts, johnny, you wrote what was on my mind about this watch, in particular, and Panzera, in general. They do design some really great looking watches and Miyota/Citizen does make a good movement. I've been tempted to buy a Panzera on a few occasions and can even overlook the use of a mineral crystal as opposed to sapphire. But, at their price point and even discounted here, I can't abide the use of Miyota's entry-level workhorse, non-hacking movement. As the owner of a few watches with Miyota 802A/8125's in them, I can attest they keep pretty good time but they all exhibit the "stutter" which drives me nuts. I'm also personally done with non-hacking calibers.
BTW, Discobill, Panzera watches might be designed, and the company based, in Australia but like quite a number of boutique watches in this price range, I'd bet dollars to donuts that they are made in Hong Kong/China. Cheers!

Sep 4, 2017

Abob

Sep 4, 2017

JTrubsIf you read the other comments they seem to clearly confirm this brands makes the watches in sydney... but to be honest at this price I coukdnt care if it was made in India as long as the quality is good

Sep 4, 2017

Sep 4, 2017

JTrubsyes. yes. and yes JTrubs.
again i say however, i've bought my share of invicta autos, and some 8200 caliber miyotas...if you like it you must purchase it. i even have bought a seiko quartz movement powered giant invicta hydromax. we are watch people...we are not rational ;D

Sep 4, 2017

Abob

Sep 4, 2017

johnnyjohnnyI like this watch and to be honest as long as the accuracy is good I don't mind where the watch is made and seems from the other posts of people who actually have watches from this brand with same movement they don't have the stutter issue.. anyway thats my two cents worth.. all the best

Sep 4, 2017

Sep 4, 2017

johnnyjohnnyHi johhny I've been a watchmaker for 25 years and seen my fair share of watches with miyota 8 series movements. The reason for the stutter in my observations has been watch brands do not have a correctly weighted seconds hand. If the torque and balance is correctly weighted there is no stutter issue. Haven't seen a this watch but hope that helps

Sep 4, 2017

Sep 4, 2017

JTrubsI will take that bet jtrub... make sure you do your research before making bets or it could cost you a lot of donuts 😊

Sep 4, 2017

Sep 4, 2017

Dennisjewellerhi...i was so disturbed when i got some otherwise great looking watches with this movement, that i googled it and found many others who were upset...fact is, it is not anything more than an aesthetic issue since it will not affect timekeeping...the problem is the seconds hand is not attached thru direct drive to the movement, but has a secondary attachment, or secondary linkage, allowing it to stutter when you have a quick or medium strong movement. many great 40s-50s swiss movements had the same issue, and this miyota movement is as sturdy a sucker as the non-winding/non-hacking seiko 7S26 movements in classic SKX divers. somehow they don't bother me as much as seeing the second hand on my watch shivering everytime i reach too quickly for a beer ;D

Sep 4, 2017

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Sep 4, 2017

Dennisjewelleras dennisjeweller says, don't bet on it. problem with the stutter is explained below...a wealth of info on google on this issue. it's just a characteristic of the movement, which has secondary drive seconds hands.

Sep 4, 2017

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Sep 4, 2017

Abobas stated, this is not a brand issue. it is a characteristic of this particular caliber, which is really a durable and accurate movement...but does have this aesthetic issue because the seconds hand is attached to the movement thru a second drive. i keep mentioning that here so you are free to google it vs. me explaining it again. as i also stated, i've a lot of invictas (automatics tho) so i know what it is getting a watch some might revile but you like it, and if you like it, that's all that matters...it definitely is a smart looking watch.

Sep 4, 2017

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JTrubs

195

Sep 4, 2017

DennisjewellerLOL, fair enough. I'm more than happy to stand corrected on where Panzera watches are actually made.

Sep 4, 2017

PetrosD

3702

Sep 5, 2017

johnnyjohnnyNot to pile on or otherwise discourage those that want to purchase this watch, but not long ago MD dropped the Atlantic Seaport with a Sellita SW200 (correction: not ETA 2824-2 anymore) in it for the same price. The aesthetics are reasonably similar in simplicity, although the Atlantic is not Bauhaus style. I think the Seaport was a much better value, with a Swiss movement inside a Swiss assembled watch. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/atlantic-seaport-automatic-watch

Sep 5, 2017

Sep 5, 2017

PetrosDyes Petros...i am one of the biggest victims of getting things that i fall in love with that don't have the creds...i have a lot of great diver watches with seiko or miyota movements...somehow the 7s26 doesn't bother me all that much in a great seiko piece, but the stuttering seconds hand in the miyota base caliber is not tolerable to me. i hope this discussion, if nothing else, provides good feedback to companies such as panzera that their customers really do know what watch value is, even in a microbrand...i think they are afraid of that fact since on their website they do not even mention the calibre of this movement, they simply call it a miyota automatic 21 jewel movement, trying to convince people it's like any other fine movement. it is a classic rugged movement, but it is cheap and has issues that do not command this price.

Sep 5, 2017

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PetrosD

3702

Sep 5, 2017

PetrosDI should have mentioned that I joined the drop for the Atlantic Seaport. It's a nicely made watch and a great value for the price.

Sep 5, 2017

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DrJenkins

Sep 5, 2017

johnnyjohnnyMost watch companies not just micro bands dont mention the caliber of there movements even though many are using generic ETA 2824, or Miyota or Seiko.... they will say something like its a "X45 adjusted" but if you do the research you can generally find out what it is, so not sure its fair to say panzera is trying to "convince people its some other fine movement" when it is widely done in the industry. I was looking at the MontBlanc Heritage collection recently with movement calibre M 24.09.... which if you research is an ETA 2824

Sep 5, 2017

RobertJ

Sep 5, 2017

AbobHaHa... I dont mind a watch coming from Australia, but probably not India... too funny

Sep 5, 2017

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Sep 5, 2017

DrJenkinsi understand your point about a company like montblanc or others trying to increase the cache of an eta movement because they want to charge triple what a watch is worth...like what panzera is doing here...but many companies such as seiko...steinhart...etc are straightforward about what really is going in there and do state what that is. which is a good point...a flag that something is a bit amiss if you cannot even get a straight answer as to what is in your watch.

Sep 5, 2017

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Givemecoffee

Sep 6, 2017

johnnyjohnnyHey johnnyjohnny whilst I agree with many of your points but I gotta agree with robert I dont see panzera is trying to hide anything mate. If anything MD should have put it in there listing here

Sep 6, 2017

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Sep 6, 2017

Givemecoffeeif you look on their website, and on websites that sell this watch, they do not state the calibre of the movement. so that would be what i'm talking about. not knowing the calibre, you wouldn't know that this is the non-hacking miyota which has a stuttering seconds hand. other than that, which other microbrands do when they use this lower grade movement, i don't think there is anything they are hiding. if you check you'll see that any microbrand that uses the higher calibre miyota, a 9000 series, will always state that to be the caliber...they are proud of that and its superiourity. if they use the 8000 series, they often do not reference the caliber.

Sep 6, 2017

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Sep 6, 2017

johnnyjohnnyGuys the movement model is clearly stated in the MD description.. so am I missing something here?

Sep 6, 2017

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Sep 6, 2017

johnnyjohnnyHere is what I see in the MD spec: Movement: Miyota 21-jewel automatic, 820A calibre Not sure what else you need to know what movement is in the watch?

Sep 6, 2017

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Sep 6, 2017

johnnyjohnnySteinhart sell direct from factory to consumer only as far as I am aware, which is great but you need to realise that most brands sell through traditional retail channels and this the retailer and probably a wholesaler wants/needs a margin to supply the customer. That channel which i agree is not the best in terms of price for a customer is the way that watch brands get volume in sales and get brand presence ... so unless you want see no more retail watch shops that's the way it is im afraid.

Sep 6, 2017

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Sep 6, 2017

Dennisjewellerwhat you are missing dennis is that massdrop to their credit is the ONLY place panzera has been made to reveal the calibre...so no....they are not forthcoming. steinhart sells thru other outlets which also display their movement calendar...and for less than the retail price of this panzera you can get a 200 meter eta steinhart.

Sep 6, 2017

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Sep 7, 2017

johnnyjohnnyJohhny johhny can u please tell me where outside of Steinhart website you can purchase their watches. I am very curious.

Sep 7, 2017

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Sep 7, 2017

DennisjewellerJohnny johhny for your info I called Panzera in Sydney this morning passing on your comments about them trying to hide there movement caliber. The responded by saying they have no intention of hiding anything and will have the website updated accordingly.., so how do you feel now?

Sep 7, 2017

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Sep 7, 2017

Dennisjewelleri'd say you helped the watch consumer out by bringing that to their attention...good going. as for where to buy steinhart, you can easily do as i did and google it...i'll let you do your own legwork but off the top of my head gnomon and chrono24...or something close were websites selling steinhart.

Sep 7, 2017

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Sep 7, 2017

johnnyjohnnyThanks johhny will check it out. Pretty sure chrono24 will actually be Steinhart->customer

Sep 7, 2017

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