Click to view our Accessibility Statement or contact us with accessibility-related questions
Showing 1 of 20 conversations about:
RayF
22213
Jul 19, 2018
bookmark_border
Consider this a coupon for $60--OFF on this drop: See here--unless you've got a major thing for demonstrators, let me hip you to a couple of pen-facts. First, as I'm sure I've mentioned elsewhere on this site, demonstrators are actually a bit of a rip-off. That's because a big chunk of what one would normally pay for in a good pen is wrapped up in the materials the barrel and cap are made of--be that precious resin or enameled metals, or a hundred other materials that are even more expensive. Beyond those material costs, there's the labor involved in turning that raw stuff into something desirable (that usually involves a lot of lathe and polishing work). However, with a clear plastic pen (yup, it's just plastic) the material is much less expensive and so is the labor involved. Add to that, the fact that most clear demonstrators appear on the market only after their original, opaque cousins have been available for ages--meaning all the tool and die costs have long been recouped--and you get a pen that costs significantly less dinero to produce. So, you might ask, with cheaper materials, and cheeper manufacturing costs, why do demonstrators often sell for premium prices? That question can be answered with one word: "Porsches!" Yes it's true--there are greedy little people in this world who want to take all your hard earned money so they can buy nice cars--or homes--or vacations or (fill in the blank). I have noting against those things--I just don't want to buy them for folks I've never met. But what if you really, really want to see a plunger fill mechanism sucking up all the pretty colors of really, really expensive ink you already shelled out for (before I could stop you on each of those drops too)? Well you're in luck! You can get all of those features in an arguably nicer pen for around thirty-bucks, depending on where you find them. Of course, I'm speaking of a TWSBI, a pen that for the most part, only comes in demonstrator versions. They fill via a plunger, and their steel nibs are actually quite decent to write with. I travel with a TWISB Echo, (and I travel to and through some rather rough and tumble places) and that pen (one of their least expensive models) preforms just as well as my better pens--which never leave the house. But if I ever did lose my traveling TWISB (through carelessness or misadventure), I wouldn't be out a C-Note--would I? So, there you have it--do a search for: "TWSBI Echo" and spend the other hundred this pen was going to cost you on an expensive bottle of wine or whisky--or anything else that gets your creative writing juices flowing. Alternatively, you can mail the money you just saved to me--I like Porsches as much as the next guy--or not, the choice is yours, but definitely don't spend too much money on a clear, plastic pen.

search
PS: This is a TWSBI ^
(Edited)
Jul 19, 2018
CraigLewis
260
Jul 20, 2018
bookmark_border
RayFI have TWSBIs. They sit around. They've never behaved well for me.
Jul 20, 2018
RayF
22213
Jul 20, 2018
bookmark_border
CraigLewisIn that case, I recommend you spend the additional $100 on a lessor pen until you learn how to use a better pen. That said, you can still send me the cash I spoke of in my earlier message--just put "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" in the subject line--that way I'll know it's from you, the only freak'n guy who couldn't make a TWISB "behave" for him!!!
Jul 20, 2018
kakarctic
70
Jul 20, 2018
bookmark_border
RayFI have a couple of TWSBIs and a couple of Pelikan M205s. While the TWSBIs are good, they never get used as much as M205s. To me, the nib on both pens are similar (although I like 205 better) but the feed on TWSBI is a bit dryer and cannot handle shimmering inks very well. I agree if one just want to have a demonstrator pen, they could buy a TWSBI, but Pelikan pens do offer a different experiences.
Jul 20, 2018
RayF
22213
Jul 20, 2018
bookmark_border
kakarcticI'm not dissing Pelikans in general--I have a bunch of 'em (3)--what I'm saying is that if you aren't wedded to the brand, but do want the look and function of a demonstrator, you can save a lot of money by opting for the TWISB instead. On the other hand, if you're NOT looking for a demonstrator, but do want a nice fountain pen, Pelikans are some of the best out there. That said, you're going to pay scandalously high prices for Pelikans in the M600, M800, and M1000 model range. If one is okay with those prices, they're likely a committed fountain pen user. For those who aren't yet afflicted, TWISBs are a nice entry point pen that won't break the bank.
search
M1000 top, M800 bottom--more Pelikans than anyone actually needs!
(Edited)
Jul 20, 2018
kakarctic
70
Jul 20, 2018
bookmark_border
RayFI totally agree with the TWSBI comment. But I've actually found the M200 and M400s to be better than 600 and 800 in the Pelikan line... yes 600/800 have a gold nib, but they are also bigger in size.. If only there are 200/400 with gold nibs I will be spending all my money on them lol. I see this pen as designed for people who want the Pelikan experience and have always wanted a clear demonstrator. That's probably why they made is a special edition since the demand would be limited
Jul 20, 2018
RayF
22213
Jul 20, 2018
bookmark_border
kakarcticHmm...I've always gravitated to the 600 and up sizes for the nib, but also because I have large paws. I do have an old M200 in clear-ish Anthracite (really a smokey grey) that I haven't used in years. Maybe it's time to dig it out and give it another try?
Jul 20, 2018
RayF
22213
Jul 21, 2018
bookmark_border
Not sure I follow you--round how/where?
Jul 21, 2018
A community member
Jul 22, 2018
bookmark_border
RayFEquating TWSBI Eco to Pelikan M200 is not honest. Pelikan has far better quality control, nibs are wetter and write better, piston mechanism is significantly better, etc. You never heard anyone's M200 cracking while TWSBI is constantly plagued by this. More to the point M200 can easily be upgraded with gold nib from other models.
All this said, I don't think this price is good. Finding cheaper M200 is not such a big challenge.
Jul 22, 2018
RayF
22213
Jul 22, 2018
bookmark_border
New to pens, I take it?
Jul 22, 2018
A community member
Jul 22, 2018
bookmark_border
RayFOf course not. TWSBI's have a bad habit of cracking (https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/search?q=twsbi%20crack&restrict_sr=1). Granted it's only a portion of them, but it's pretty obvious they have issues with this.
Jul 22, 2018
RayF
22213
Jul 23, 2018
bookmark_border
I have two, my sister has one as well--no cracks, all three work fine. Suggests your fear of TWISBs is irrational--maybe there's a cure?
(Edited)
Jul 23, 2018
A community member
Jul 23, 2018
bookmark_border
RayFAnd how is that evidence of anything other than your pens not cracking? I provided a link with huge history of people complaining about this issue. The fact your 3 pens didn't crack can't be considered statistically significant. I am happy you didn't get to experience this issue, however it wouldn't be responsible to just ignore its existence and tell people it's fine. Number of faulty pens might not be high, but it's higher than average which is something to be aware of.
Jul 23, 2018
RayF
22213
Jul 23, 2018
bookmark_border
That thread was older than Moses and frankly the helpless sounding hand-wringers on it (you among them?) seemed to be suffering from some form of mass-hysteria (no doubt they all begin to speak in tongues and dance spontaneously whenever one or the other mentions the word "crack"?) If anything, they struck me as a small group overly melodramatic people who don't take care of their pens very well.
How many times have you read about some group or another complaining of issues with some product that you've never had an issue with? Answer: LOTS! "Oh my computer has a bug...oh my phone burst into flames"--well my computer works fine, my phone isn't on fire and my TWISBs don't have any damn cracks in 'em! But if they did, I send them back to wherever I bought them and get new ones--not start a damn lonely hearts club for the poor suffering victims of imaginary pen-crack syndrome on freak'n Reddit!
That said, if you think the cheapest pen Pelican can throw together is a good deal at anything over fifty-bucks, buy a few dozen, start a 501 (3) (c) and donate them to the poor suffering victims who somehow managed to crack their pens (assuming your computer still works, and your phone hasn't yet burst into flames, your Toyota hasn't accelerated uncontrollably, your Ford Explorer hasn't rolled over, and a giant asteroid hasn't caused another one of those ever-so inconvenient mass extinction events. We'll all feel better if you do!
Jul 23, 2018
A community member
Jul 23, 2018
bookmark_border
RayFI can see where this is going. Am going to stop replying to your comments. Have a nice day.
Jul 23, 2018
RayF
22213
Jul 23, 2018
bookmark_border
Hmm...quite the visionary too!
Jul 23, 2018
kakarctic
70
Jul 31, 2018
bookmark_border
Agree with the things you said about TWSBI and M200. Although I think TWSBI has improved a lot in terms of controlling the cracking issue, the nibs are not the same level as M200. As for the price on this drop, I don't think it is very easy to find this particular color of M200 at lower price... one might has to look overseas and take the tax discount. However, if one just wants any M200, then yeah, there are cheaper ones out there for sure.
Jul 31, 2018
A community member
Aug 1, 2018
bookmark_border
kakarcticYeah, you are right, these are not all that readily available everywhere. In that aspect, perhaps, price can be justified.
Aug 1, 2018
willentrekin
40
Feb 25, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFIn my experience, Pelikan nibs are MUCH better in terms of smoothness and experience than TWSBI. I've had Pelikan steel nibs in both F and EF, and my TWSBI Vac-700R nib is good but not AS good. That said, I would say that in terms of a bargain, TWSBI's mini vacuum pen is a good value compared to a Pelikan M205. The nib may not quite match, but you get much more ink with the somewhat more novel vacuum-fill system. Finally, in terms of demonstrators, I think to each their own. But I'll also note that if I could choose only one fountain pen to use going forward, it would most likely be the Pilot Custom 823 (F), which is available only as a demonstrator (as is Pilot's Custom Heritage 92, which is its only piston-filling model).
Feb 25, 2019
RayF
22213
Feb 25, 2019
bookmark_border
willentrekinWell it all comes down to limitations then, doesn't it? My initial comment was directed at shoppers looking for their first and only demonstrator--looking to satisfy their curiosity and hopefully get it out of their system, once and for all. For dedicated demonstrator collectors, the only treatment is more demonstrators, isn't it? With enough cash, one can afford to learn many of life's little lessons first hand. The less fortunate among us are advised to proceed with caution.
(Edited)
Feb 25, 2019
willentrekin
40
Feb 25, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFI get what you're saying, but I think for people looking for their first and only demonstrator actually supports the Pelikan more. Less than $100 and more than 50% off is a heckuva deal for this one. To be honest, I'm fairly agnostic about demonstrators myself, but any m205 at this price would be a solid bet. Not saying the TWSBI isn't a solid bet. They're fine pens. But with a Pelikan, you're getting a fine pen. Like when Vesper Lynd tells James Bond in Casino Royale "There are dinner jackets and then there are dinner jackets." I'm actually very tempted to pull the trigger myself on this drop. Anyway. Continued happy collecting!
Feb 25, 2019
RayF
22213
Feb 26, 2019
bookmark_border
willentrekinI won't stand in your way! PS: Give my best to Vesper Lynd...
Feb 26, 2019
username02
62
Feb 28, 2019
bookmark_border
RayF600 looks small, yet it feels perfect in hand.
Feb 28, 2019
RayF
22213
Feb 28, 2019
bookmark_border
username02In perfectly small hands?! --kidding, I've never actually held or written with an M600--maybe I should try one?
Feb 28, 2019
sockpuppy
451
Mar 1, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFHuh? So you're saying if you don't want a good pen, but just want a crappy knockoff for no good reason, then this pen sucks and everyone should get a sucky pen instead? Do you work for TWSBI or something? Also WTF was that unhinged rant about demonstrators supposed to be about?
Mar 1, 2019
willentrekin
40
Mar 1, 2019
bookmark_border
RayF"kidding, I've never actually held or written with an M600--maybe I should try one?" I thought you said you "always gravitated to the 600 and up sizes for the nib." I have an M605 Blue Stripe I actually bought on this site, but I swapped out the two-toned nib in favor of a 14k from a rhodium plated 405 Stresemann. It's a pretty good size and pretty great nib, but I feel like Pelikan is one of those brands where anything is at least a safe purchase.
Mar 1, 2019
RayF
22213
Mar 1, 2019
bookmark_border
willentrekinYes, I initially gravitated towards 600s, but when I got there, the pull of the 800 and 1000 was too strong to resist. As for safe purchases, you could say that about German cars too, but the issue is are they worth it, and can you afford one? By the way, you'll be thrilled to learn you pals at Pelikan, who are never at a loss to dream up new ways to separate you from your dough, have just released the new M1000 version of the oh-so dapper Stresemann.
search
You are welcome to salivate over it here: https://www.nibs.com/pens/pelikan/pelikan-souver-n-m1005-stresemann-special-edition
(Edited)
Mar 1, 2019
willentrekin
40
Mar 1, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFOh, believe me I've been! That thing looks like a beaut.
Mar 1, 2019
RayF
22213
Mar 1, 2019
bookmark_border
sockpuppyFirst off, I have to say I've never seen a better match-up between message content and user nickname than yours--your parents were true visionaries--give them my regards. Now, on to your awkwardly worded and embarrassingly misinformed missive (best snug up your foil-hat Jr, it's going to get blustery). I'm saying if you want a demonstrator but you're not particularly interested in contributing to Pelikan's defined benefit pension plan, there are less expensive ways to get it out of your system. TWISB for instance, makes very nice, inexpensive pens and all of them are clear as a bell and suck up ink through a piston fill mechanism, just like Pelikans do-- for a lot less money. Which is to say, this drop, for this Pelikan, is not the only option--assuming one just can't live without a clear plastic fountain pen. And no, little fellow, I don't work for TWSB and TWSB is not knocking-off Pelikan by making clear pens--nearly every company in the business makes or has made clear demonstrators in the past (and by past, I mean before you were born)--and get this, those companies were actually trying to demonstrate some bit of technology their pens employed, or that perhaps they had invented. These weren't novelty pens for sale, their function was to convince a customer to buy a particular pen, as opposed to the other guy's. And mind you, this normally took place in a fountain pen store, with a qualified fountain pen salesman (as opposed to a website, where little know-noting twits like yourself could demonstrate their ignorance instead). All of this happened at a time when owning a good fountain pen was as important as owning a good cellphone is today. These days, demonstrators are a novelty--all of the clever engineering that makes a fountain pen work reliably was invented a long time ago. There really isn't much need to demonstrate what's under the hood in order to make a sale. But they're kind'a cool to look at, and to see all those pretty colors of ink you spent a small fortune on, so what the hell? Buy one! However, assuming you're not as dumb as young Sock Puppet here, consider the dollars-to-value equation and make sure Pelikan has earned your cash on this model.
(Edited)
Mar 1, 2019
sockpuppy
451
Mar 2, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFThese days, *fountain pens* are a novelty, it seems you've completely lost sight of that fact. You've written up this rambling, multi-page screed to argue against a person who does not exist: someone who decides (a) they want a demonstrator, and therefore (b) they need to look at demonstrator pens which (c) can be any brand as long as they fulfill the first two criteria. No. That just isn't how it works. You can swap out the word "demonstrator" for "fine point" or whatever and it's the same level of nonsense. But it looks like you've managed to convince yourself that you're much smarter and more fiscally prudent than this mythical person that you've spent all this emotional energy on, so, congrats for one-upping all those people who do not exist, I guess.
Mar 2, 2019
RayF
22213
Mar 2, 2019
bookmark_border
sockpuppyTrust me Sock-Puppy boy, you're the only one that matters to me ;- )
(Edited)
Mar 2, 2019
sockpuppy
451
Mar 2, 2019
bookmark_border
RayF"Boy"? Yikes.
Mar 2, 2019
writerstephen
480
Apr 17, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFWhy can’t you spell “TWSBI” correctly?
Apr 17, 2019
jctsoares
11
Apr 18, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFIf you go that road, twsbi is a rip off, you can get a wing sung 3008 with a better nib for less than $5!
Apr 18, 2019
RayF
22213
Apr 18, 2019
bookmark_border
jctsoaresThose are kind of interesting--wasn't aware of them--thanks for pointing them out ! Years ago, after collecting older pens from the 30s and 40 for a while, I decided to try a "New" pen. I ended up purchasing a Pelikan M200 series demonstrator. It turned out to be the single most disappointing pen I'd ever written with! That "new" pen didn't hold a candle to the seventy and eighty-year old pens I already owned, not in writing, and especially not in fit or finish. Folks don't realize how "cheap" the lower end of Pelikans really are. On the other hand, the Wing Sung 3008s you pointed out don't put on any fancy airs or pretense--they are what they are, and that's all they charge you for! Thanks again for the recommendation!
search
And you get all 4 for $15! Goes to show you how much MARGIN there is in expensive pens.
Apr 18, 2019
jctsoares
11
Apr 18, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFI own one of these and a Pelikan m200 special edition smoky brown and must admit that I love the looks and feel but the wing sung wrote better out of the box both with an F steel nib. And even any cheap Faber Castell between 15 and 40 € with steel nib will write much better.
Apr 18, 2019
RayF
22213
Apr 18, 2019
bookmark_border
jctsoaresI'm not surprised to hear that at all. The nib on my M200 was so bad I reground it myself. Steel nibs are underrated, and often gold nibs are overrated. The nib on my M1000 is crazy-springy, not flexible, just springy. The nib on my M800 beats the 1000 hands down, but as you point, almost anything beats the M200.
Apr 18, 2019
A community member
Apr 18, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFIt's not totally true as Chinese manufacturers get a huge amount of subsidies for using raw materials produced in China, using their own shipping companies, etc. But margin is extremely big for all pen manufacturers. As for old pens, I expect as much. Things in the past were made to last and every one of those pens was an investment. Today's consumer market knows very little of what real quality is as everything is made to last for few years and then be replaced by newer and shinier model. Higher end modern pens should offer more quality but that's not always the case (ahem Visconti, ahem). So it's a hit or miss kind of affair. We should also be careful to take into account survivor bias when it comes to vintage pens but in general I do think they were made to last.
Apr 18, 2019
RayF
22213
Apr 18, 2019
bookmark_border
They were originally built to last indefinitely, including parts and service. Unfortunately in the 30s, 40s, and 50s companies like Parker and Shaeffer didn't anticipate the 60s, 70s and 80s--or the rise of nineteen-cent Bic pens one could toss when empty and replace with another. Not sure people actually want something that lasts a lifetime these days; certainly not cars or major appliances--who doesn't want a new car and a new refrigerator? The Parker "51"s below were born in the 1940s, some seventy-plus years ago. It's possible to break them if you try hard, but you can't beat 'em with anything made today. I have a dozen of them and they all work like they did when new.
search

Apr 18, 2019
PenChick87
38
Jun 23, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFRay what do you think about the brand 'Fine Writing' they are a Taiwanese brand and I really like the look of them as far as demos go
Jun 23, 2019
RayF
22213
Jun 23, 2019
bookmark_border
PenChick87Couldn't find much info on the brand (new to me). I did find a review on Youtube, but didn't catch the price: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEJs-_1ks2Q Have any links I can check out?
Jun 23, 2019
leksluthah
2
Jun 23, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFI do not think comparing Twsbi to Pelikan is the best advice. Twsbi started in 2009 and uses Jowo outsourced nibs while Pelikan was one of the first piston-filling pens put out by Gunther Wagner in the 1920s, and I believe they still make their own nibs. I have multiple Twsbis and multiple Pelikans, and there IS a quality gap from one brand to the other. Some of the best steel nibs I own are on Pelikan pens, and almost every Twsbi I own is like writing with a scratchy nail. Just my opinion.
Jun 23, 2019
RayF
22213
Jun 24, 2019
bookmark_border
leksluthahYou're welcome to you opinion--that, your history lesson, and eighty-nine bucks will buy you Pelikan's cheapest "M" pen with a nib that has absolutely nothing to to with the nibs Pelikan is actually known for (M600s and up), nor the nice celluloid body's those better pens are are made of. My advice was aimed solely at those folks who were looking at this pen because they were attracted to the novelty of a demo plunger. The pens you're comparing this ten-dollar (cost) pen to are much more expensive. These clear-things are really PINOs (Pelikans In Name Only ;- ) To put it another way, BMW makes Minis, but Minis are not BMWs
Jun 24, 2019
PenChick87
38
Jun 24, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFLooks like they are being sold through Yoseka Stationery in the US, but I heard EndlessPens is listing them for pre-order soon: https://yosekastationery.com/blogs/news/bronze-age-by-fine-writing-international one of their models 'Bronze Age' looks pretty cool and seems to be sitting around $100
search

Jun 24, 2019
leksluthah
2
Jun 25, 2019
bookmark_border
RayFIt sounds like my opinion isn't really welcomed at all. And I'll happily take my $89 (actually a bit less @ endlesspens.com) and spend it on Pelikans--I have three 2xx demonstrators already that perform exceptionally. You can spend all you want on on Twsbis. And when those barrels crack or the pens leak--because it WILL happen to you if it hasn't already, you can rebuy the broken bits of your Twsbis until your heart's content--kinda like you have to keep replying to everyone else's comments. Because your opinion is really the only one you welcome. Cheers.
Jun 25, 2019
RayF
22213
Jun 25, 2019
bookmark_border
leksluthahGot enough Pelicans, thanks, including the Anthracite version of this pen. Big boys use M800 and M1000s when they want a real Pelican, not these, the "BIC pens" of Pelikans. Meanwhile, I travel with, and use one of my TWSBIs daily (same one, for three years) with no complaints, cracks or leaks. All demonstrators are a bad value for reasons I mentioned in this thread earlier. Paying more for a cheaply made, yet over-priced Pelikan version of a demonstrator, only makes things worse--evidently a mistake you've made several times over the years. If you want to see ink sloshing around in a clear pen, by all means, buy an inexpensive clear pen--just don't pay too much for one, or try to convince others that this one, is a "real" Pelikan--unless you want others to feel sorry for you. As I do, for you. (sniffs, wipes a tear away).
(Edited)
Jun 25, 2019
Bob3600
202
Mar 15, 2021
bookmark_border
RayFRay what happened to your nasty comments??? Hope you learned a lesson. Thanks, Bob
Mar 15, 2021
RayF
22213
Mar 15, 2021
bookmark_border
Bob3600 What comments? What lesson? Sounds like you’ve started drinking again!
Mar 15, 2021
Bob3600
202
Mar 15, 2021
bookmark_border
RayFThe moderator took your nasty comments down Ray. Get with the program. You will just never get it. Sad!!
Mar 15, 2021
RayF
22213
Mar 16, 2021
bookmark_border
Bob3600He blocked the thread based on YOUR comment, you drunken moron!
search

Mar 16, 2021
Bob3600
202
Mar 16, 2021
bookmark_border
RayFI don't drink Ray. Your short term memory is gone. Now I am being called a moron really you have regressed again. The name calling is what was deleted and your posts did that not mine. LOOK!! You will see what was removed. DUH!!!
Mar 16, 2021
Bob3600
202
Mar 16, 2021
bookmark_border
Bob3600BYEEEEEEEE!!!!
Mar 16, 2021
View Full Discussion