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Showing 1 of 15 conversations about:
Pelikan M800 Stone Garden Fountain Pen
ravkesef
198
Nov 6, 2018
Noted fountain pen expert and author on the subject, Peter Twydle, said in response to an opinion question on the absolute best fountain pen, that the Pelikan M800 was the winner. He writes: “The M800...remains, in my mind, the fountain pen by which all others should be judged, for its reliability, its ink capacity, its strong structure with brass mechanism, and its value for money...”. Little more need be said, but when I first read this, I couldn’t wait to buy the Souveran M800 Blue Stresemann. The pen has lived up to all my expectations and to Twydle’s remarks. I own over 100 fountain pens, some cheap and fun, a few more expensive than the M800, but none of greater value and writing pleasure. The Stone Garden is a new design this year, and in addition to a beautiful pen, you would be getting a truly magnificent writing instrument. It’s a big ticket item, true, but your grandchildren will thank you.
RayF
22219
Nov 7, 2018
ravkesefPoppycock—it’s just a pen. A highly over-hyped, and highly over-priced pen, but still, just a pen. I have several, nothing magic about ‘em. Buy a Parker Duofold if you’re looking to spend some cash. Otherwise, buy a first-full of cheap Chinese pens and spend the rest something better
PS: your grandchildren would rather have the CASH.
jpelham
5
Nov 7, 2018
RayFYou have several M800's, and you judge them inferior to the Duofold? Then by all means publish a review of Mr. Twydle's book, or at least post one publicly, to expose his naïve affectation and spare others from squandering their money as you have.
mtozsu
38
Nov 7, 2018
RayFSorry, but your comments make no sense. For context -- I collect fountain pens and have couple of hundred with probably every major brand. I have quite a number of Pelikans and a number of Duofolds and there is no comparison. Duofolds are cartridge/converter while Pelikans are piston. You may prefer cartridge/converter but collectors mostly prefer pistons. Pelikans have screw-in nibs that are easy to take out to clean, Duofolds have friction fit and you need to be careful in removing nibs. For an experiment, fill both a Duofold and a Pelikan 800 with the same ink, leave them sitting for a month and then try writing and report back which one starts and which one refuses until you jump some hoops...
winelover215
138
Nov 7, 2018
ravkesefI've never heard or seen a Blue Stresemann ??? Post a photo please.
katerchen
271
Nov 7, 2018
winelover215The Stresemann by definition is gray. I think he meant the blue striated version (which AFAIK is still in production along with green. Red - sadly - is discontinued, driving the prices sky high)
EDIT: I should probably google this to verify, but I believe the rhodium accented (eg: 805) blues are also discontinued, but the Gold (800) is still in production.
RayF
22219
Nov 7, 2018
jpelhamYou just read MY review—of both pens. If you’re looking for a book review, try The NY Times. As for Twydle, he’s welcome to his own opinions, misguided though they may be, as are you.
RayF
22219
Nov 8, 2018
mtozsuYeah, for context I collect fountain pens too and I have a couple of hundred as well. So gosh--I guess that makes us two guys with a lot of fountain pens? Only in your case, you have a lot of pens and that oh-so, pompous-ass, pen-boy attitude to go with yours! Some how, in my years of collecting, I never managed to acquired one--go figure!
By the way, you don't need "quite a number of Duofolds" and "quite a number of Pelikans" to make the comparison--and by the other way, both pens are over priced, but for that price (never retail of course), I prefer Duofolds, hands down.
As to your points, nothing special about a piston filling mechanism--you can get the same mechanism on a thirty-dollar TWSBI. How a pen fills, including converters (but never cartridges) makes no difference to how a pen writes. Which one holds more ink may be important if you travel, and if you haven't figured out how to carry more ink, but otherwise, I've got lots of other ink I'm waiting to try when any pen runs out. Screw in nibs are really no big deal either-- I'm sure you know Parker Duofolds also have interchangeable nibs too--you know, for those who have extra cash to burn?
What you're all a flutter about when it comes to a Pelikan, isn't the it's superior manufacturing or quality control, and it's not that the pen writes any better than Brand-X, what you're falling for are Pelikan's superior marketing skills! You just can't wait to fork over another wad of cash for the same damn M800, Pelikan has been selling for decades (maybe since Moses), just because they dressed it up in a new suit of clothes! Nearly every damn month Pelikan comes out with a new color-way, or a new limited edition version of the same damn pen--and you guys love 'em!
"Oh look, the cap is blue this time!" Or, "I have the green one, I really, really want a red one!" Did I mention it's the same damn pen, over and over again? Christ, I don't know if it's Groundhog Day or we're just buying a new outfit for our Barbie-pens?
Now, I don't begrudge a guy buying a couple (they're so cute) but lets not over do it, and lets not start believing our own bullshit, or the bullshit from the pen manufacturers, but certainly not the bull shit from guys trying to sell you books about fountain pens--it's not necessarily in their interest to make you wiser, they're just trying to sell books--like a pen manufacture is trying to sell pens ;- )
But don't take my word for it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ZKg3tcTM4
RayF
22219
Nov 8, 2018
winelover215Post a photo? What--they don't have Google where you live?!
RayF
22219
Nov 8, 2018
What exactly do you call facts? You mean something you'd believe because it makes you feel good about what you believe? Try Fox News.
Maybe you mean something written by a noted pen expert? Heck, I've written tons of stuff about pens right here on MD, and some of it wasn't half bad--so I'm pretty sure that makes me "noted." And since you mention it (and especially since pens aren't really that deep of a subject), I consider myself an expert! But I suppose now you're going to tell me your expert is bigger than my expert?
Here's my expert advice: buy a couple dozen Pelikans--they're okay pens, but more importantly, you're going to make someone in Germany (and someone in San Francisco) very happy--and isn't that what it's really all about?
mtozsu
38
Nov 8, 2018
RayFBoy you have been holding it inside for a long time looking for a chance to dump, haven't you?... In your rush to insult me, you have not even read your original post or mine carefully... Your original comment was not that these Pelikans were similar to each other but with different colors, your comment was that they were inferior to Duofolds, which I took to mean new generation Duofolds not the ones from the 1940s. In that comparison, there is no criteria by which a Duofold is better than a Pelikan. If you read what I said carefully, I did not say Duofold nibs cannot be replaced, but if you are going to argue that friction fit nib-feed combination is easier to remove than screw-in, then there is nothing to say. You totally ignore what I said about drying and restarting easily. If you are claiming that Duofolds write better than Pelikans or their quality control is better, then make that statement instead of the childish attempt at insulting people who disagree with you. These discussions are supposed to provide assistance to those who might be considering the pen in question.
RayF
22219
Nov 8, 2018
mtozsuYou're going to tell me what these discussions are supposed to provide? I'm not here to provide you with anything, and if you're the sensitive type, who's easily insulted, you should put that in all caps right at the beginning of your posts (and right under where you tell me mine make no sense).
And yes, I am referring to "new generation Duofolds" (seventies and up), not the one's made in the 40s (or the ones made in 20s, or 30s). I didn't say "inferior" I said over-hyped, and over-priced. But more importantly, I said it's just a damn pen--nothing special about 'em (except the price).
I didn't address your comments about friction fitting, because it doesn't apply (although there's nothing challenging about shoving a nib and a feed into a section, people have been doing it for years). When I said interchangeable, I meant screwing on a new one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-Duofold-International-Nib-88-Medium-Oblique/153202122323?hash=item23ab8ede53:g:eAEAAOxywbNRAETM
And I didn't address that drivel about nibs drying out or starting because it's unimportant--some do and some don't, and it's more a factor of when you last wrote with it or capped it. If it doesn't start, dip it in your Martini and it will write just fine. On the other hand, if you don't drink for instance, buy a Parker "51" and it will never dry out. Either way, it's not a criteria for evaluating how much one should pay for a damn pen.
Of course I'm saying Duofolds write better than M800s, otherwise, what would be the point of preferring one over the other? The color of the cap? You're starting to strike me as a rather superficial kind of pen guy. Maybe we buy the pens we buy for entirely different reasons? Say, you're not that guy who was wishing MD would do a Montblanc 149 drop are you?
mtozsu
38
Nov 8, 2018
RayFA lot of time in your hands, right?... Keep on writing... Try to understand what the other person is writing though... And, no I am not hoping for a 149 drop -- I have 149s from 50s, 60s, and 70s. Those are fine and enough....
RayF
22219
Nov 8, 2018
mtozsuI have plenty of time--take all you need
[moderated]
note to moderator: bite me.
mtozsu
38
Nov 8, 2018
RayFObvious you have a lot of time, but I don't. Keep on writing, but try (just try) to make some objective comments about the pens and their features. Have a good night...
RayF
22219
Nov 8, 2018
Purchasing a pen doesn’t have to be a group decision—unless you really need the help.
RayF
22219
Nov 12, 2018
Nice building, boring pens.
Seen one M800, seen them all (until they come out with another one in a different color, next Tuesday). Written with one M800, written with them all.
Suppose I thought 1968 Fastback Mustangs were my favorite year and model--would I buy one? Sure.
Would I buy one in every color they made? Probably not.
(Edited)
RayF
22219
Nov 12, 2018
Well, I'm sure you'll make the right choice between pen and door. By the way, if you ever end up with too many '68 mustangs in your collection, give me a call, regardless of the color ;- )
Fplover
0
Nov 12, 2018
What price were you able to secure on LCdC?
Fplover
0
Nov 12, 2018
Thanks for sharing!
zhanggoo
48
Nov 14, 2018
Did you shipped to US? How long did it take it? I heard that they don't shop by DHL rather Post Office
Usergrade
54
Jan 9, 2019
RayFAnd let's not forget all the ones from the 40s that with a little work write just as well. I've got more than quite a few pens from the 20s on that I've restored to beautiful working condition that have stood the test of time and can be had for a fraction of the price. And nothing against pretty shiny new pens either. Write with what makes you happy! Despite the arguments, Mr RayF seems to have the right idea.
I find the more time and love I put into the hobby the more enjoyment and satisfaction I receive.
That being said, if you've got money to burn and it's easier for you to drop some cash, more power to you.
ravkesef
198
Jan 9, 2019
ravkesefHere’s what I don’t understand: This is a discussion, where everyone’s ideas can be shared, and everyone’s intelligence and preferences can be respected. So I’m a bit at a loss as to why RayF has to insult everyone. He’s covered every single base here, me, Peter Twydle, mtozsu, the list goes on, and apparently even the Moderator had to edit him. I own one—repeat-one—M800, and that’s enough for me. If someone wants to own one in every possible color, then I’m not sure I understand why RayF has to criticize that desire. And if he thinks that Pelikans are not all that great, why not express that thought as an opinion, rather than an ad hominem assault upon all of us here. And frankly, most of us don’t care how many hundreds of pens he has—we all have our preferences, and we’re entitled to respect for those preferences. And at last glance, I note that Peter Twydle has written a highly regarded book on fountain pens. I’ve been searching for RayF’s book, and I’m having difficulty locating it. As to the merits of the Duofold vs the M800, I’m not sure. Opinions do vary. Yes, the Duofold is truly a classic. That said, I find that unscrewing a Pelikan nib to give the pen a bit of a cleaning is far easier than performing the same operation on a Duofold. Just my 2c worth. But in that vein, I read this and other discussion threads to find out what others are saying and to share my thoughts with them, not to let everyone know how unenlightened they are, and how superior my own knowledge is, and how my opinion regarding a particular pen is so, so, so much more valid than anyone else’s. In looking through this thread, I sense that this feeling is shared by all others save one. Again, just my 2c worth. And RayF can flame away, or follow the dictum attributed to several pundits about the advantages of remaining silent and be thought a fool, ...you can fill in the rest.
RayF
22219
Jan 10, 2019
ravkesefOh, the nerve--why, I'm the victim here! Just look at all the unkind things people have said about me--just for criticizing their favorite pen--well it's just shameful I tell you, just shameful!
Kidding of course--you can say what you like about me, I don't take offense--unless you insist on doing the whole bloody rant in ITALICS--that's taking matters just a little to far!!!
Okay, kidding again--makes no difference what type style you chose, although I don't recommend
ALL CAPS, in bold, UNDERLINED and ITALIC (only a madman would type like that).
But I would point out one smallish item you and my detractors seemingly have overlooked--my original comments were about the Pen, not you, or anyone else commenting on this page (true, I took exception to Twydle, but he's not among us)--and then, suddenly, I was savagely pounced upon by you and your Pelikan loving compatriots--simply for offering my humbly expressed opinion!
Okay, yeah, I'm kidding again (I don't do humble), but the part about me talking initially about the pen--that part's definitely true. So, here's my first bit of advice--don't take anything I say to heart, or in anyway personally. And secondly, and probably most importantly--don't load up on a bunch of damn Pelikans!
Kidding--buy all you like, it can't hurt anything.
RayF
22219
Jan 10, 2019
UsergradeDefinitely with you on pens from the 40s--I'm a big fan of Parker '51's and earlier Vacumatics too. It's damn near impossible to kill a 51 and they're fun to resurrect when you find them in the wild. I actually started with pens from the 30s, 40s, and 50s--and felt bad when I started to add modern pens, but they're easy to come by, and one leads to another... I've also become fond of inexpensive pens from China lately too, but that's another story. I suppose now I'd describe my self as a mixed-bag pen user.
jpelham
5
Feb 27, 2019
RayFP.S. Maybe curiosity will one day get the best of me and I'll buy a Duofold, but I won't be moved by a longing for a smoother or more reliable writer, because the M80X is flawless on both counts. And that friction abrades and threaded joinings don't casts a shadow over any nib you have to yank out. Moreover I wouldn't admit a fetish for Chinese pens, unless of course you find one in the style of a '68 Mustang.
(Edited)
RayF
22219
Feb 27, 2019
jpelhamA lot of people like German cars too. And of those, a lot think Mercedes are pretty nice--until they drive a Porsche 911S--at which point they're likely to change their loyalties from MB to Porsche--until they drive a dark green '68 Mustang Fastback. At which point they will probably want both a 911S and a '68 Mustang.
Now, anyone who can afford a 911S and a dark green '68 Mustang Fastback is a very lucky person indeed. But if, when they open the glovebox of that recently acquired dark green '68 Mustang Fastback, they find a Parker Duofold underneath the owners manual--well, that person is especially lucky.
(Edited)
jpelham
5
Feb 28, 2019
RayFAgreed, though I prefer the standard over the fastback; the 6-cylinder was not a powerhouse, but one of the sturdiest, most reliable engines ever made. Yes, the glovebox find would be especially lucky, and perhaps a few generations to come would enjoy its virtues. But six generations from now, in the happy hands of my descendant, when the threaded M800 nib section is still as tight as either of the '68 engine mounts, while the friction fit nib is surely rattling around like a loose set of false teeth, he or she will know that finding an M800 beside the Duofold would be as lucky as could possibly be.
(Edited)
RayF
22219
Feb 28, 2019
jpelhamMy dear, you misconstrue!
While virtually all nibs are friction fit into the section, neither Pelikan or Parker makes you do the work! Both manufactures supply their nibs, pre-mounted (by friction, no less) in a screw-in, nib/section assembly. The Parker assembly looks like this:
jpelham
5
Feb 28, 2019
RayFI note that while the in-line 6 didn't roar, it also never faltered, and otherwise made up in dignity what it lacked in power. Thank you for the Doufold tutorial. Perhaps one will join my meager collection after all, though the seats at the head of the table are occupied by Pelikans. On a related note, I am interested to hear about the shading, saturation and sheen of your tomato juice, tequila and cognac.
(Edited)
RayF
22219
Feb 28, 2019
jpelhamMany people are (see below). In the meantime, mind the bird shit ;- )
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rayfriedman/42047316822/in/dateposted-public/
jpelham
5
Feb 28, 2019
RayFA charming still life. Is the Moleskine reputation undeserved? If Duofold ink capacity even approached that of a Pelikan, you too would be mindful of droppings.
Wasn't this a Pelikan M800 Stone Garden thread? Something about it must be attracting you.
(Edited)
RayF
22219
Feb 28, 2019
jpelhamKind of you to say so. I have a love/hate relationship with Moleskines: they're handy, with durable covers and stitching, but in truth, the paper has a show-through problem that makes writing on both sides of a sheet (especially with dark ink and medium nibs) look pretty damn pitiful. I'm aware of Tomoe River but haven't ordered any of it yet--it's definitely on my list.
As to Duofold ink capacity (or any other converter fill pen) I see that as a bit of a red herring, A) there's quite a bit of capacity in that converter and B) I have lots of bottles, brands and colors of ink, just waiting their turn for the next fill-up. No doubt piston fillers hold more (and eyedroppers, more still) but other than an endless roll of hundred dollar bills, life is too short to write with even a semi-endless supply of the same color of ink--unlike Porsches where silver is always correct and '68 Mustangs where dark green is preferred.
Mistakenidentity68
2
Apr 7, 2019
RayF“swop” is actually “swap”. Just saying.😂
RayF
22219
Apr 7, 2019
Mistakenidentity68Whatever.
(Edited)
Mistakenidentity68
2
Apr 7, 2019
RayFI like you, Straight forward and to the point!! BTW, unlike a few others, I think that your POV is valid. As soon as I read your posts, I started my search for Parker Duofold Pens. I am in LOVE!!
mclose
582
Apr 7, 2019
ravkesefI agree 100%. With MontBlanc and others you're paying higher prices for inferior product to cover huge marketing expenses. I too have many fountain pens but really only use my gold nibbed Pelikans with internal reservoirs. They put others to shame. Converters hold less than 25% of the ink of this M800. A fantastic price.
RayF
22219
Apr 7, 2019
Mistakenidentity68Pleased to hear it--pretty sure you'll like your Duofold even better!
Are going for new or old versions?
Luke5403
177
Apr 9, 2019
katerchenStressman refers to the stripes on the body of the pen. They are a tribute to a German Politician who wore pinstriped suits. The gray striped one is the only one that was actually marketed as a “Stressman” and is the most recent color added to the striped Pelikans.
RayF
22219
Apr 9, 2019
Luke5403*needs citation ;- )
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