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Showing 1 of 57 conversations about:
LIBY555
192
Nov 9, 2018
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Maybe it's just me but I don't trust cables that are going down in price from 100 bucks to 60... I mean, after material cost and labor, and massdrop's commission, this cannot cost more than $7-$8 to make..
So it's not surprising that reviewers does not find this to sound better than stock.
I even believe that in some cases a good stock cable would even be a better sounding cable.
I personally don't care about how the cable looks and prefer to invest once in a truly decent quality cable. Not saying to invest 400 bucks on a cable, but 100 bucks on a cable that is actually uses high quality wires, connectors, sleeves, and uses high-conductivity solder wire is a must for me, otherwise I would just stick with the stock without waste a single penny.
For me when I see a custom cable maker that drops the prices by 50% it's game over.
You're better off with those that keep their prices solid, with maybe 5-10% discounts on holidays, that will guarantee you're getting a good sounding cable and not junk in a pretty dress.
Also, let's say you've bought this cable for the full price right, and now you're selling the headphones and want to return some of your investment and sell the cable, you cant.. because the cable is now worthless unless you want to sell it for scraps. Another reason to stay away.
That's why I love companies like schiit audio that protects your investment by keeping solid prices.
That's my 2 cents on this subject.
BTW I bet that the confusion surrounding cables sounding better or not is related to the fact that most cables that people are buying are garbage. There's no free meals.
Eque37
6
Nov 9, 2018
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LIBY555Hi, I actually own one of this cables, that I purchased directly from their web site, and they truly sound better than the stock one. It's well constructed, sturdy, and the splitter is kind of heavy, not a problem though. However if you go to their site, you'll find out that the price is pretty much the same.
I use them with my HD6XX, and Dark Voice, that both I purchased from here. A I really recommend this cables.
Good investment that you won't regret, on the contrary, I hope you enjoyed them as much as I do.
Warm regards.
Megazine
544
Nov 9, 2018
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LIBY555I think I can make a compelling argument to your statements. I don't believe cables can improve sound, unless theres defects, or interference from other electronics or wires. Here is why it makes sense to get another cable other than the originals.
- Cosmetics (Feel, Material and Design)
- Build Quality
- Upgrading to XLR
- Length
LIBY555
192
Nov 9, 2018
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MegazineYou can believe whatever you'd like.
In those things there are no place for opinions.
Ask any one with a degree in electrical engineering, and he'll say the same thing:
Once that something is measurable, and it's measured differently from another, it's different. Just like headphones, amps, etc..
Now, there's no doubt that different cables do sounds different as long as they different enough in characteristics from each other, but, what sounds better than what, that is debatable, as every taste is subjective. Furthermore, it is really depends on the equipment they are connected to, for example upocc silver cables tends to sound a bit brighter and detailed than upocc copper cables, so pairing hd800 with silver cables is probably not a brilliant idea, even if it's a really good cable.
I'm not saying the differences are night and day, but they're there. Try and see for yourself, because you clearly haven't.
Listen, if this cable is made out of entry-level mogami for example, it would probable sound about the same as a stock cable that comes wity mid-tier headphones, so, if you understand that fact, and you still decide to spend your money to get better comfort and looks, by all means..
Megazine
544
Nov 9, 2018
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LIBY555I think you misunderstood my comment. I wasn’t disagreeing with you that cables can’t improve sound — I’m with you on that. I was just trying to make the claim, that there are other reasons besides sound, that justifies the purchases of 3rd party cables like the list I made.
LIBY555
192
Nov 9, 2018
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MegazineWell, then we're on the same page.
But let me ask you this :
Let's say you really like your headphones, and you've invested in a good dac and amp, wouldn't it be worth it, to also invest once in a cable that will improve sound as well, on top of these things you've mentioned?
From my rich experience with those things it's certainly worth it, even if it costs 4-5 times more than this cheapo cable.
And yes, I believe that overpriced cables in most cases are not worth it, because there's a limit on how much a cable can influence the sound. But if you find the middle ground like a real UP-OCC wire terminated with good connectors, that should cost between 150~300 depends on the length, you'll be exactly in the sweet spot in terms of cost-performance ratio.
Megazine
544
Nov 9, 2018
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LIBY555No and yes. First, cables don't improve sound that the human ear can perceive. Second, if money was not an issue, I would agree with you in buying expensive cables, since some of them look so sexy!
Phthinein
11
Nov 11, 2018
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LIBY555Actually these cables costs a few pennies to make, maybe a buck or two at the most.
Source: Someone who used to make high end audio cables for a living.
LIBY555
192
Nov 11, 2018
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PhthineinNah.. That's not true... Even a garbage 4 pin XLR connector from china cost about a buck and a half, the wire itself which in this case is pretty cheap I suppose cost about 2~ per meter, the paracord sleeve about another buck, the hd600's plugs even if they're the cheapest knockoffs would cost you about 3 bucks for the pair, the splitter another buck..
So I believe this cable cost about 7-8 bucks to make.
Listen after adding the labor cost the price is very fair, but for me I see no point to invest in a cable that first and foremost wouldn't significantly improve the sound quality. After that I'll look at things like comfort, flexibility, low microphonics, etc...
The minimum specs for a good cable:
Excellent wire with full specs>Neutrik connectors>best headphone plugs available>flexibility>soft>low microphonics.
A cable of this sort would cost about 90~130 bucks depends on the length, and it's well worth the extra 30~40 bucks if you really like your cans because you only buy it once.
A cable like that should cost about 30 bucks to make, of course that it could also cost 200 bucks to make, depends on the type of wire used, like UPCOCC, UPSOCC are super expensive.
Megazine
544
Nov 11, 2018
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mindhead1I never heard Darkvoice before. I'm curious if I would like them.
mindhead1
599
Nov 11, 2018
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MegazineThe DarkVoice is a tube amp. For some reason the Sennheiser headphones pair really with it.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dark-voice-366se?utm_source=linkshare&referer=KHCQL7
rdodev
632
Nov 11, 2018
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LIBY555Firstly, under no circumstance should anyone pay more than $100 for a headphone cable, let alone $300, unless of course you have money to burn and just don't care about money in general. The math simply does not work. It's the same Monster Cable snake oil.
Secondly, let's say after parts and full manual labor each of these cables comes at about $20. Unfortunately, hi-fi is a niche market so economies of scale are hard to attain. So, instead of the normal 10-20% margin most consumer electronics have, as a business owner you have to sell it at 100%-plus margin just to make it be worth your while. So that's $40. And for massdrop sell/distribution, they tack on another $10. That's $50 which is about where this cable sits. I've never seen this cable cost more than $50-60, not sure where you get $100 price from.
Companies like Schiit audio are good for resell value, as is Apple, for example. But, that also means they keep prices artificially high so you're paying more upfront. I can buy a fantastic laptop for $800 that matches a $1700 MBP in specs. Sure resell value after couple of years it's probably 75% off $800 and the MBP be $1000 (you still lose $700, which is the same as the loss of buying the $800 laptop).
Megazine
544
Nov 11, 2018
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mindhead1I know they are an amp and I did a bad job showing that. Does Darkvoice amps use some type of software to make their amps sound dark, or its just all the hardware and tubes doing the work?
GiantHeadphoneSquid
639
Nov 11, 2018
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rdodevI suspect he is getting $100 from the standard price for these cables listed on Periapt's website.
I agree with you in principle, but the reality is that cables are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them. Manufacturers are able to take some extra margins on exclusive accessory/replacement aftermarkets, just like Apple and Schiit retain resell value by controlling their sales chain. Headphone Heaven help you if you ever lose your Focal cables and have to seek replacement :(
I just jumped on these for my Senn 600/650, and I will probably get a pair of their full price variety for my Fostex TH900 from their site directly. Compared to paying ~$300 for first party Fostex cables, or jamming in the slightly different size Senn, I personally am OK with paying slightly more than normal.
Hopefully MD will add the Fostex option in future drops!
rdodev
632
Nov 11, 2018
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GiantHeadphoneSquidAs for replacement for Focal headphones, the dual 3.5mm should work for Focals except the Utopia.
mindhead1
599
Nov 12, 2018
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MegazineIt’s ancient tech. No software. Electricity, wires and tubes. Different tubes change the sound signature of the amp. Tube rolling, switching tubes, is fun but can be expensive.
Compared to objective solid state amps tube amps color the sound of the music and can bring a nice warm quality to the music. Again, different tubes impact the sound. The high impedance 6XX pair very well with the DarkVoice. Other headphones work well with it as well, but I think the power of the DarkVoice really makes the 6XX shine.
Welcome to the rabbit hole.
Megazine
544
Nov 12, 2018
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GiantHeadphoneSquidBe aware, Periapts cables are not $100 on official site. LIBY555 threw everyone off lol. They start around $52 and depending on length and end-plug, the prices rise. For instance I ordered a 4XX, orange, 7ft, PRO XLR cable for a total of $75.
GiantHeadphoneSquid
639
Nov 12, 2018
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MegazineI guess the Fostex TR are a bit more? Sucks to be on the wrong side of supply and demand I suppose. . .
https://periaptcables.com/collections/frontpage/products/14-type-14-dual-fostex-th-r?variant=13627744354409
Megazine
544
Nov 12, 2018
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GiantHeadphoneSquidWow, looks like I was wrong. Sorry everyone. I can't believe Fostex's cost so much more. From what I've read, Periapt had to make a special order for the Fostex pieces.
GiantHeadphoneSquid
639
Nov 12, 2018
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MegazineThe Fostex TH/R option is new from them, and as I understand, partially the result of some enthusiasm from another MD member. The TR Fostex from MD themselves are quite new, I am really glad to see real 3rd party options popping up, even if they are at a slight premium. . .
That said, I was the one who was wrong in guessing what buddy meant. . . Fostex TH aren't available in this drop yet (the Fostex option in the drop is for the RP, their planar mags) they were just the ones I had looked at, so they don't reflect the price change. The options in the drop aren't $100, so your point is fair.
I'm just gonna shut up and look forward to getting my new cables now :)
LIBY555
192
Nov 12, 2018
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rdodevYou're wrong, that's totally subjective.
It's so obvious that you've never owned a high end headphones like lets say Focal Utopia or HE1000 v2 and compared their stock cable to a high end aftermarket one, and again I'm not talking about a pretty cable, but a really high quality one.
If you did, you wouldn't have argued about it as the difference is so clear. So if I'm right, which I'm sure I am, what's the point in arguing and try to educate me about it?
Saying don't buy a cable that cost more than 100 bucks is stupid, it's like to say dont buy a dac for more than 200 because the difference will be small compared to a 1000 dac.
High end stuff exists in every department in audio, from amps, dacs, headphones and also cables.
Only a OCC UPC or UPS 4 core wire cost as this whole cable per meter, so what you expect it to be sold for 100 bucks?
High-end cables cost a lot of money to produce, that's a fact, if you don't believe me check for yourself.
As I said previously; There's a middle ground in every thing, including audio, where you can get most of the performance at a relatively affordable price without entering the insane prices category.
Secondly, there's a thing that called scaling capabilities; basically it means that there's no point in buying 250 dollars cable nor an expensive dac or amp for cheap and headphones because no matter what you'll do they will always be the limiting factor.
There's a basic priorities when building a system from scratch and it goes like this :
Headphones>amp>dac>cables
Yes, cables comes last, but they are very important as well when you try to optimize your system as best as possible.
LIBY555
192
Nov 12, 2018
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rdodevNope, because you didn't respond to anything beside that line, it proves that I was 100% correct.
Your "opinion" comes from reading, not personal experience.
So it wasn't even an actual debate . Sorry :)
rdodev
632
Nov 12, 2018
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LIBY555So comically predictable. I wrote this days ago and you fit exactly these https://www.massdrop.com/talk/11133/the-three-rules-of-audiophile-gear-arguments?utm_source=linkshare&referer=UHWMCL
LIBY555
192
Nov 13, 2018
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rdodevhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue
Again - Evasive.
Once you will show me a real in-dept-review or at least give an opinion on something you've actually compared you talking out of pure ignorance.
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