Support for Alternative Layouts
This is a summary of how alternative layouts have been supported by kits such as Colevrak and Homing. It is not a discussion of alt layout performance and development, but if that interests you I highly recommend starting with Pascal Getreuer’s A guide to alt keyboard layouts (why, how, which one?). It’s a concise and comprehensive overview with links to some great sites that go deeper. He also has a separate Links about keyboards page. The Keyboard layouts doc he recommends explains layout goals and metrics in detail, summarizing the alt layouts discussed here as well as more than one hundred others. Sculpted-profile The majority of custom keycap sets are sculpted-profile (Cherry, SA, MT3, KAT, etc. - more on profiles generally here) so let’s start there. Because each row has a unique keycap shape, alt layouts require a unique keycap for each legend that moves off its QWERTY row. At first there were two The Dvorak layout was patented in 1936 by August Dvorak & William L....
Apr 23, 2024
EDIT: More details which I posted here -> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/planck-mechanical-keyboard/talk/1748097
I'd like to address everyone's concerns and additional questions that came up along with correcting some misinformation out there so everyone knows how we got here. 1) FCC and compliance testing as a whole have been on our radar before the Planck drop even happened in March. 2) As orders grows larger - meeting regulations and compliance becomes more important. While a few keyboards might get through customs without proper documentation, if we were to try and import a few pallets of Planck keyboards in full packaging without all the documents in place - there is a very real possibility US Customs will seize everything and that will be the last of those keyboards. 3) With compliance testing like these - the testing lab requires a final version of the product. That means samples and prototypes will not work. Due to the initial delays we communicated about the plate issue and the small delay on PCBs due to component problems - we weren't able to get a finalized Planck until the second week of June. 4) At that time - we would have still met our estimated ship date (perhaps with a 1-2 week delay at most). 5) However, when we learned that additional testing would have to be done along with what we've already scheduled because the keyboard will also be shipped internationally - which means there are international standards to meet as well. 6) Since the testing will be completed at the same time, we will not be able to send the US shipment first. Additional testing also requires additional scheduling with the testing labs - which leads us to today. I will continue to follow up with this process - as soon as we hear back from the lab with the full schedule, we'll update everyone on the status via discussion + email. Thank you for your patience in the meantime.
EDIT: 13 weeks ago, not 15 weeks. The point stands.
Edit: The 10/31 estimate is for the Planck Keycap Drop. I just got my opt-in email about it.
Edit: I'm just flustered with all these delays happening involving the planck, its kinda hard to swallow at points.
Hopefully the actual Planck will be good to go by August.
And as an addendum, looks like OLKB is shipping their brand new rev 4.1 PCB boards starting July 18, so their shit must already be approved by the FCC. Weird, because you'd think all those boards would have the same certifications. Am I wrong on that @YanboWu @kunalkumar ?
Thanks, 3kn
edit : are these emails going out to everyone else?? Still haven't received an email update for this drop yet. Worst communication of any drop I've been in. Glad it's my last.
By the way, the e-mail we will get is an **opt-in** e-mail. You have to reply opting in to stay in the drop. That is, **you will be opted out** if the e-mail go into your spam folder by any chance and you don't reply.
Better yet, I've seen on Reddit that someone wanted to opt in but was opted out due to some mistakes on Massdrop's end, and Massdrop refused to let that person back in the drop. Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/6m65gb/
This will be the last drop I'm joining on Massdrop (I'm not opting out; I don't want my time of anticipation to just go to waste). Geekhack sounds better; I might need to wait more, but hey I would be getting my things on time, and there is a wider variety of kits/caps too!
EDIT: For clarity.
Firstly, you could've gotten your calculator out and realised that buying directly from OLKB is only $30 more than buying it off of Massdrop when the drop happened rather than doing it now that shit's hit the proverbial fan; trying to prove your point when things go wrong rather than assessing and damage controlling right from the start in order to prevent these situations is moot point. Assuming a "low-key Friday night out" is some sort of allegory for an irrelevant amount of money (?) why would you ever join this rather than buying direct? If you want the gunmetal/green case then is the wait not worth it any more?
Secondly, are you typing these replies from your phone because you don't have a working keyboard? Or are you using the windows on-screen keyboard? Do you physically and/or mentally suffer from the fact your 40% keyboard kit is delayed by x amount of time? I'm part of the drop too and even though I tend to be exceedingly relaxed and patient I really don't know why people are rupturing an aneurysm over this. I get wanting a determined time-frame, I get that it's Massdrop's JOB to deliver whatever you buy within the ETA they provide as you commit and buy accordingly but do you really have to get super worked up and frustrated?
and @washcoll - classic case of confirmation bias right there; do you think the hundreds or thousands of people who have hundreds or thousands of drops they've participated in on MD go around posting "man massdrop is AMAZING they've always done right by me everything's a-OKAY boys, NICE!" on every single drop discussion after they get their stuff? No. What does happen, and makes perfect sense, is the ONE out of 500 or 1000 or 10000 makes a thread on Reddit about how their shit is fucked up in one way or another or comes over here insulting MD saying they'll never do business with them again.
If you have a problem personally resolve it. Figure it out. Your experience is not representative of their entire business nor does it equate to that of every other customer. How can you not understand your premise is inherently flawed?
Secondly, "assessing and damage controlling right from the start in order to prevent these situations is moot point" doesn't make any sense since my part as the buyer is to give Massdrop money and then their part is to provide the goods and services as promised. Am I at fault for trying to save money and hold a company to their promises? No. I guess that analogy doesn't work for you. Whatever. Use your imagination. Massdrop does OK when dealing with group buys of already existing products but really seems to fail the mechanical keyboard community on a too regular basis. To-a-T.
EDIT: @Vigrith claims they are a member of the drop.
I'd address the remainder of your comment but considering you are unable to discern what's blatantly written down why would I take your grasping at straws seriously enough to respond?
Still, sounds like shill speak to me.
"Shill" is another one of those words that are "low key" popping up in people's vocabulary on the internet all of a sudden, do you fully understand what it means? You don't have to abide by anything, this is an internet forum where people respond to things they want to discuss, be it something they agree or disagree with.
I happen to not like it when people are too quick to judge a company's shortcomings without being fully aware of the situation, be it Massdrop or any other, the experiences of one do not represent those of everybody else as stated and people like @washcoll potentially discourage others from participating in drops because of passing off their experience/opinion(s) as de facto. Can that not be considered "shill speak"?
To be perfectly clear, I don't think Massdrop being late/sloppy is entirely acceptable - if they give customers an ETA and they join based off of that (or at least in part) then they should be held accountable; what I do think is that extenuating circumstances exist and that there are things and happenings companies cannot predict to the best of their ability some times.
"...the experiences of ONE do not represent those of everybody else..." Hahaha. Thanks for the laugh.
A large portion of the customers in the drop I mentioned did not receive what they ordered. If you were to read through the comments, then you would see that this was not a one-off occurrence. Some customers have stated this as being commonplace in their experience with other drops as well. It has been 2 months since the drop shipped (3 months total), and many of us are still awaiting resolution. I am patient, so I have not given up hope yet. But, this is entirely unacceptable and demonstrates a lack of customer service.
Also, delays are certainly not uncommon here at Massdrop. In fact, many customers have experienced delays with the majority of their drops. @bsastor and I are merely two examples. This is not news, and has become a bit of a joke. It has been quite common to hear about and experience firsthand. But, how often have you heard of Massdrop actually taking responsibility and offering some form of recompense? Don't answer; it is obvious.
I have no qualms in voicing my experience. If other customers choose to participate or not participate on a drop based upon what I have said, well that is their prerogative. If they choose to ignore it, that is just fine too. But, I will not be censored by the likes of @Vigrith. You don't happen to like it... good! :)
You state that Massdrop should be held accountable when they fail to meet an ETA IF customers joined based upon the ETA. That is simpleminded and ridiculous thinking. Massdrop should be held accountable regardless of the rationale behind a customer joining a drop. Then you go on to insinuate that Massdrop couldn't have predicted that this would happen. Well, wrong again... It was stated several times that this particular situation could have been prevented, but due to a lack of competence it wasn't. What makes matters worse is that they fail to admit it, and act as if this was all just a big surprise. Where is the integrity there? All of this just adds up to what you can expect with Massdrop customer service. Just be sure to set your expectations appropriately prior to joining a drop. We aren't dealing with amazon after all.
Finally, it is clear that @Drewablo is correct - you are either a Massdrop employee or a fanboy. In either case, your opinion should be taken with a grain of salt. Thank you and have a good night. :)
Massdrop is absolutely destroying their own reputation with all these delayed drops. Your major selling point is unique items, and buyers acknowledge a large wait time. Having to wait BEYOND the already large wait completely kills the incentive to buy through MD. This is unacceptable. Testing should have been filed for and completed before the drop was opened.
This is not Kickstarter or IndieGogo. I paid for a product and I expect to get that product.
"You state that Massdrop should be held accountable when they fail to meet an ETA IF customers joined based upon the ETA. That is simpleminded and ridiculous thinking. Massdrop should be held accountable regardless of the rationale behind a customer joining a drop. "
Let's check the dictionary, what is the meaning of estimated? I'm quite sure it conveys the meaning that the date of delivery is unknown. So there really isn't even a delay, since no one ever said when the boards would even be shipped. The only thing you have been promised is that the boards will arrive as soon a possible. And MD did(just stating facts) explain when and why they should be able to ship the drops every time the estimate was changed. I have a hard time seeing what more you could expect from a group buy that inherently is of very limited qualities.. It also seems very possible that MD were told different things by the FCC when they first asked and when it finally came to testing..
All the promised dates and expectations you all seem to have perceived are created by your own minds and that is where your complaints should stay.
(drops that never get fulfilled are obviously a different story, fully worth of angry criticism)
...also, I'm more then fine with the delay, I was even counting on it :D Love reading the comments where ppl freak out about a delay on an estimated time :)
Now I will grant that a lot of the posts have gotten a bit ridiculous and are pretty much people just bitching for the sake of bitching, but MD has handled this drop exceedingly poorly. Personally, I'm not canceling because it's not worth the hassle (and I really want my gunmetal case), and because I know with a drop this big it will get sorted eventually, but every time a drop is delayed my interest in buying through MD again goes down significantly. Their business practices are pretty crap, frankly. Regardless of whether or not the FCC changed requirements, as I said in my post, testing should have been handled and done *before* the drop was opened to buyers. That's how every other company does it, and for good reason. What we see now is the result of terrible planning.
" This is impossible, since FCC requires testing to be done using the final products, i.e. not A plank board, but THE plank boards that will be shipped in this drop. So for MD to live up to your expectations, they would have needed to have known the amount of boards needed about 4 months before opening the ordering process. "
That's...not how that works. Companies submitting new products do a final test run to iron out kinks (as we saw with the QC issues that we were notified of weeks ago). Once all problems are fixed, a final product is submitted for testing. This does not mean that MD had to do a full run prior to testing, merely that all following output would have to meet those standards. The fact that they didn't do this means that they skipped steps in the production cycle, which is indicative of poor planning. They don't need to know how many are going to be ordered. Especially since this is the second drop for the Planck (and likely not the last based on popularity) they definitely should have had testing done before the drop was opened. At the very least, they should have been prepared for all necessary certifications as soon as a production run was confirmed.
"3) With compliance testing like these - the testing lab requires a final version of the product. That means samples and prototypes will not work. Due to the initial delays we communicated about the plate issue and the small delay on PCBs due to component problems - we weren't able to get a finalized Planck until the second week of June."
I'm quite sure that having full EVT/DVT/PVT cycles + external testing of group bought CUSTOM products, before asking how many people will join the group buy, is quite an unreasonable expectation.
I feel like I shouldn't even bother replying, people seem to be having trouble with reading comprehension and/or accepting that people can disagree with you without necessarily having to be fan boys and/or a Massdrop employee but alas, I figure branding someone a troll is easier than having an actual argument.
If you honestly think "(...)I don't think Massdrop being late/sloppy is entirely acceptable - if they give customers an ETA and they join based off of that (or at least in part) then they should be held accountable(...)" is the same as saying they should only be accountable if the the customer joins based on ETA then I'm not really sure what to say - what did you say about simplemindedness?
I guess we can just wait for Massdrop's inevitable downfall because you and Bsastor are just one of several thousands with massive problems, whether or not they go out of business will pretty much settle the argument correct since apparently disagreeing is not allowed and whoever is "right" is right and whoever is "wrong" is trolling yea? That's the thing with anecdotal evidence, everyone's got an opinion but when it comes to discussing it with someone who does not share the same experiences people get touchy.
@Drewablo I'm the last person you have to apologise to - I like arguing with people on the internet as is obvious, stand by what you say unless you regret it for some reason, I'm not offended. If anything I was slightly disappointed that people just assume I'm trolling just because I don't go around bitching about delays and participate in the mob-mentality where people shit on Massdrop for having issues they have no clue about just because they feel entitled to it.
Playing devil's advocate and being a fanboy/employee/affiliated with Massdrop are absolutely not the same but people seem to have a hard time differentiating the two. It's much easier to just "take what I say with a grain of salt" than it is admitting you are not categorically right.
Anyway, I got permission from my fiance to place an order on my birthday, and we expected it to arrive around our wedding (you know, after the production and shipping estimates had been met, never thought this thing was going to have to be rebuilt because it wasn't a developed product or tested/certified), so it was supposed to be a gift for both of those occasions. It's looking like my now wife and I will be waiting for this to arrive closer to my next birthday than the last. Nice.
I'm not going to blame anyone other than myself for my ignorance as to how this company operates, but I doubt I'll be back for a second serving.
MD mainly does drops the way you thought, but the custom hardware ones are very different. Since they by definition have to start production after getting orders, I guess you could say it resembles a kick starter in a way, as an effect of how the FCC and similar enteties operate.
As a hardware engineer at a big company I know that in the world of consumer products, these things are generally sorted out a few months before production starts, and after that no changes can be made, unless you want to redo the testing, or try to convince the FCC etc. by submitting complementary testing(provided your company has developed that amount of trust). And no changes means NO changes, you have to have the same source for all components on the PCB, and obviously no change to the PCB layout etc.
In the case of the Planck, even if there have been previous drops, the boards are revised, and the aluminum case is different. I would expect that even the small change in plate production was thought of a too big change not to test using the first plates.
I think it's a shame, since I wouldn't expect a custom keyboard to meet FCC standards any more than a DIY PCB etched by hand, or a keyboard built with cables instead of a PCB. I also wouldn't be surprised if the FCC told MD that it wouldn't be a problem, but changed their opinion at some point.
I have a hard time to think that the boards won't pass since Jack's boards should have passed themselves.. but in the worst case scenario they might have to add some shielding component or something, and then we would be looking at a second pass of testing untill everything passes.
With all this in mind, even if it's frustrating, means that thinking that MD handles this poorly by not making the testing in advance pretty much equates to: "It's a poor business practice to try to sell custom keyboards to alot of people" And then we wouldn't have any plancks.
If all the kinks had been worked out before orders were collected, we'd probably be sitting here with an estimated delivery similar to the current time-frame (whatever it is). But our orders would have been placed much closer to the true delivery date, resulting in happier customers and less work for the support team.
On the other hand, with the plan MD went with, we get the Plancks faster, cheaper, and if things that MD couldn't have forseen wouldn't have happened, the tests wouldn't have impacted the shipping date at all.
We'll see what happens with the drop though...
That's a pretty bad look, as it's 7/16/2017 today. Sorry, but I'm going to have to cancel. Was really interested in the board, but the delayed info and how this was handled really ruined any joy I had for it. Hope you figure your stuff out in the future, are able to get your product out and best of luck.
https://olkb.com/
About that update...