Plum 87 Electro-Capacitive Keyboard Discussions | Drop

Mar 23, 2017

TurboCassI wasn't aware of the Novatouch, added that to my original post as an option. The HHKB's form factor doesn't work for me, which is why it's not listed.
Price isn't a factor, if it's listed, it's an option. I'm looking for people's experiences with them, and preferably, if they have more than one of those listed, to compare which one they like better, and for what reason.
Topre clones doesn't automatically make it inferior to me, unless you have a specific reason why. I've noted that you consider the Novatouch variant to be louder and less smooth than authentic Topres. Sturdiness is likely more due to how they're mounted than to the switches themselves.
Personally, I prefer the floating platform style, as it seems to be easier to keep clean. Thus, if everything is equal, I would prefer one of the AKBOs.

Mar 23, 2017

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Alex00322

789

Mar 23, 2017

TigoleOut of all of those I think you'd be happiest with the FC660C. The Novatouch is nice but requires a few additional mods to make it acceptable (IMO). The build quality just isn't there compared to the Leopold or the HHKB. If you want to have cherry sliders then the Novatouch is the only choice out of the box.

Mar 23, 2017

Mar 24, 2017

TigoleThere is a big jump in quality between Realforce, Leopold, HHKB and the others (with Novatouch awkwardly in the middle; too expensive to be a bargain, not high enough quality to compete with RF). In my opinion RF and Leopold give you the most "topre" topre experience with HHKB being just as refined but having a unique feel due to PCB (instead of plate) construction. IF you want to give topre a try, I would recommend starting out with either a 45g or 55g 87U RF. You can pick them from around $200, if you don't mind full size, there is some 108UH for 180$ atm. The 55g is the most tactile "Topre" switch and the one I settled on, the 87U 55g is the definitive Topre board. Leopold has a a good TK option in the 980C. The topre clones are not in the same league (but do offer good value for money), the buttery Realforce feel seems to be a combination of a lot of little things; rock solid construction, super smooth stems, excellent stock caps, quality of cup rubber etc etc; this makes it very hard to recreate on a budget. However, quality doesn't scale well with price, at the very top end you pay a lot more for relatively smaller increase in quality. TL;DR - If you want to really experience a topre switch - you need to cough up for a 45/55g Realforce or Leopold.

Mar 24, 2017

Mar 24, 2017

consolationWhen you say "the topre clones are not in the same league", which clones have you tried ?

Mar 24, 2017

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Mar 24, 2017

TigoleThat's a good point, in addition to the top tier brands, I only tried the Noppoo and Plum - they seemed very similar to each other. However, I understand that the consensus is that the clones share a close heritage; with the switches all coming from the same source. There is nothing wrong with them, but nothing special either from what I could tell; the cases flex a bit, the caps are ok but nothing fantastic; smoother than typical cherry but not buttery Topre - that kind of thing... From what I have read; replacing the mats with 55g, lubricating the stems and putting on really good keycaps can improve the feel considerably. Honestly, you'd need to talk to someone who has first hand experience, to find out how close to a Realforce you can get them. I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle tbh, they seem like a good budget option rather than endgame material.

Mar 24, 2017

Mar 24, 2017

TigoleI have an ABKO K985P V2 as my main KB, while I can't directly compare it to topre since I've not used them yet, I can still say that it's an amazing keyboard, I've not had the opportunity to use the V1 model so I don't know what's different aside from the dental band colour, I can hear a difference in sound, I've heard people say the V2 sounds worse or lighter, but there are a couple YT videos where they're being used one after the other, the V2 sounds more round with a better "thock" sound in my opinion, I would love to try Topre and other ABKO and Plum keyboards, but the most I can say is that ABKO boards feel great from my experience.
Here's a video where you can hear them both being used and you'll probably notice the V2 sounds more "round" for lack of a better word, though the experience in person is far more satisfying https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puFhMYey6YU
I know a few people who have a Plum84 and they absolutely love it, one of which has reached an average of 165wpm which is insane.., but I couldn't tell you how they all directly compare, a lot of people say the 35 grams is a bit too light and the tactile response isn't so much there, some of these people replaced the rubber dome sheet with a 55g sheet and said the improvement was massive though I guess as usual that's down to personal preference. When I was deciding which board to buy, I was reading a review on the K945P on reddit so you can have a look at what he has to say about it to maybe inform you some more:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/59pl4h/review_my_review_of_the_abko_hacker_k945p_55g/
quoting what he says here: "So how does it feel I guess is the big question. In a word: fantastic. If you were to say the Kludge was about 75% equivalent to a topre, the Hacker feels like 95%. I own a Topre Type Heaven, and I've used 87us extensively and messed with the HHKB on a few occasions just as a point of reference. Unlike the Kludge, the tactile bump is not mushy, it feels much crisper, closer to an 87U in that respect (at least to me). " Later he states that it's become his daily driver.
I fell in love with the unique looks and pretty keycaps on the K985P V2 and "bit the bullet" and bought the thing, I wanted the 87 key 945 but the V2 of that wasn't out at the time and I was in serious need of a replacement, I apologise for not being able to supply really any information on the Plum, all I can do is tell you about the ABKO boards, but just to top it off I'd like to say that the keycaps on the ABKO P boards along with their sizing and spacing is perfect and feels better than any other PBT I've used before, the grain is rather rough but doesn't get gunky in my experience with a long session of typing, it just remains consistent throughout and just feels amazing.

Mar 24, 2017

aznguyen316

Mar 24, 2017

consolationWhen you mention Novatouch being too expensive, is this at current pricing? I bought the Novatouch some time ago (barebones $120) before it went OOS and before the price was jacked up, which surprised me a ton. I will say the fact that it uses Cherry MX stems for key cap compatibility is a superb addition and is worth an added expense at purchase and can help in the long run if you enjoy buying/selling keycaps.

Mar 24, 2017

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Zac_Lee

282

Mar 24, 2017

consolationCan confirm with my own Leo, the metal plate mounted, pbt capped 45g feels fantastic. if you don't think it's smart to spend 200 USD on a keeb: just remember how long you'll spend typing on it and divy up the cost that way.

Mar 24, 2017

Vigrith

4081

Mar 24, 2017

aznguyen316The Novatouch was discontinued some time last year so there's no longer any real "current" pricing - I bought 2 extras as soon as it happened because everyone was clearing out and I got them for about 100€ (110~ dollars) each; I'd imagine now that most sources have run dry, they'll be both much harder as well as much more expensive to find.

Mar 24, 2017

Alex00322

789

Mar 24, 2017

VigrithThe only reason I could see buying those is for parts. Taking all the sliders and putting them into better made Topre boards. The Novatouch just isn't worth what most people are asking now. The build quality is nowhere near what Leopold or HHKB is.

Mar 24, 2017

Mar 24, 2017

aznguyen316I meant the original pricing, it was too close to RF to be a bargain and didn't match the build quality to compete directly. It was still a really good keyboard. Current prices are a joke...

Mar 24, 2017

Mar 25, 2017

Ossie9Your feedback and that reddit review have convinced me to give the K945P V2 a try.. Where did you order yours from ?

Mar 25, 2017

Mar 25, 2017

TigoleI got mine from Gmarket, only problem ordering from there is that your first order will fail and refund after about 40 minutes or so, go into customer support and do a live chat with one of the people there and they will help you to get your payment verified, then they allow you to purchase, might just be able to message them straight off though and have them verify it before buying but I'm not too sure how their system works, they have really good customer support though from my experience with them.
Oh and I suggest going for one of the 55G variants, the ones I linked are 45 but they're easy to find there.
Here's a couple of links: http://item2.gmarket.co.kr/English/detailview/item.aspx?goodscode=909055003 http://item2.gmarket.co.kr/English/detailview/item.aspx?goodscode=914899228

Mar 25, 2017

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Mar 25, 2017

Ossie9I've never ordered from Gmarket before, and I don't read/write Korean..
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like they're sort of a Korean version of Ebay/Aliexpress ?
How do I tell which seller is trustworthy ? One of the listings you gave is cheaper than the other. Any reason to go with the more expensive one ?
Also.. the only K945P that's 55g seems to be the V1 ?

Mar 25, 2017

Mar 25, 2017

Ossie9Did you get a chance to compare the feel to a RealForce 55g?
Dammit Leopold, make a 55g 980c already... (a massdrop special ed. would be amazing, I'd trade a kidney for one) - considered hacking up my RF 87u to make this happen, but it seems like a bit of a sacrilege :-/

Mar 25, 2017

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Mar 25, 2017

Tigolethey have an english option up the top, if you're using chrome, just right click and click translate, you'll see the button after that up at the top.
That's exactly what it is, but considering they're made in Korea, it's the best source for them, and you appear to be correct about the 45g thing, I can't find a 55g either but I'll take another looksy and see if I can find another. As for finding trustworthy sellers, you see beneath the picture of the product at the top is the seller, if there's 5 stars it usually means they're good, they seem to refer to it as power, based on their company size I guess, if they have crowns near their names and other things like that, usually means they're the best of the best. If the prices are lower it's usually the smaller companies charging more so they get a larger return from the sale, that's my guess anyway, I could be wrong, it could also have to do with the amount they were supplied.
and Consolation, I've not yet had a chance to try one no, but I do intend to buy one in a few weeks time if I can afford to.
I've been designing my own board recently and some optical analog switches but I have to get more prototypes made, could really use a 3D printer..

Mar 25, 2017

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zod000

Mar 29, 2017

consolationMy 55g RK felt worlds better to me once I put nice PBT caps on it and took off the dental bands (not a huge difference on its own). The Noppoo/Plum/RK domes seem to run a little lighter, but side by side, the 55g RK felt slightly better than a 45g Novatouch to me.

Mar 29, 2017

bulleo

Mar 29, 2017

Ossie9Can you confirm that on the V2, they removed that clear plastic cover that sits on top of the aluminum? So you don't touch plastic, instead metal?

Mar 29, 2017

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Mar 30, 2017

bulleoThey removed it yeah, there's still small strips of it beneath some of the keys but the keycaps don't touch it, the only other place there's any of it is at the spaces between key clusters, as you can see here:

I can see why they put it there outside of lighting though, the aluminium is really soft and easy to damage.. the outer shell isn't the best plastic either.. The legs aren't very good either I'm thinking of making my own shell for it out of aluminium, just not willing to disassemble it until I've got the time or money.

Mar 30, 2017

zod000

Mar 30, 2017

Ossie9That sounds awesome. If you do it, please make a guide of some sort.

Mar 30, 2017

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