Does anyone else here have any comments they can share on either the detent or the pivot screw loosening up or being cemented in place?
I ask as a result of the day and night difference between GeorgeMX's experience and mine
His blade loosened up after a day, my pivot needed heat from a soldering iron and a ton of force to break loose. (whatever was on this bolt was sort of a grayish white. Not red, and certainly not the blue they used on the t6 body screws)
Regarding the detent, here's what I've found:
The lockbar has plenty of strength to it, but the detent ball doesn't fully seat in the hole when the knife is closed. You can see a large gap when viewed from the side while closed, just the very tip of the ball goes in)
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As a result the blade easily shakes open and fails the 'gravity assist' laws 😞
After disassembly I did an experiment. Took out the stop pin, reassembled, and carefully closed the blade. At this point the detent ball was fully seated in the hole and the blade would not shake open no matter how hard I tried.
But opening with the middle finger flick was still nice and easy, and the blade springs out much more solidly every time.
The problem though, is that when the detent is fully engaged the blade is so far in the handle that the tip just barely makes contact with the backspacer.
Note the difference by the arrows below :
Stock-
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Stop pin removed -
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I want to fix this on my own, but I'm trying to determine the best way to go about it?
Easiest way would be grinding out the finger choil a little further so the blade closes further before it hits the stop pin, but then I need to also remove material from the backspacer for clearance and re-anodize that.
Removing material from the stop pin would have the same drawback with the backspacer.....
So, I guess drilling out the detent hole in the blade is the way to go in this case?
Do I just use a larger drill bit and drill on center? I'm worried if I try with the same size moved up just a hair, the bit is going to just walk back into the original hole. (I have a decent drill press, not doing this by hand... But still, small bits flex, and runout is a thing)
If anyone here has experience doing that, I'd love to hear it
KavikThat's pretty shitty for both of you. What's MD going to do about this? I thought they had all the stock sent to them first so they could defect check this before sending it on to the customer.
BrandI'm sure it's never been MD's intention to check items before shipping. Things are sent to them first just so they can receive bulk palettes of products and package them themselves, but they don't open and inspect everything.
Even if they did:
a) detent strength is different in every knife, a weak detent isn't an automatic red flag. My complaint on that may be someone else's preference.
b) they sure as hell better not be adjusting pivots, which is the only way they would've noticed the discrepancies in loctite there.
I still have high praise for this knife overall, the only part in mine that I'm really upset by was the cement like loctite. The detent 'issue' is more of a fine tuning customization sort of thing I think.
And i believe the issues @GeorgeMX is having could potentially be fixed with a tear down cleaning and reassembly. The lock grinding may or may not be a serious issue, but the loosening pivot is easily dealt with with a touch of blue Loctite, and I'd consider that common maintenance.
Although I completely understand his position on not wanting to have to do that immediately on a brand new knife, for me that's always the first step with a new one anyway.
I'm sure MD will process his return without question, but I'm not looking for anything like that myself
KavikI just saw this. Interesting stuff! I think I read this whole thread, but who knows. It’s hard to tell with the way these threads jump around. Did you fix it? Did you try drilling out the detent or grinding down various parts of the knife?
DougFLA123I haven't messed with it yet. I'm recovering from a dislocated shoulder and just getting to the point where I have decent use of both hands again
I think my fix is going to be either deepening the finger choil, or filing down the stop pin, rather than drilling out the detent hole.
The reason being that those 2 options will pull the blade down into the handle just a bit more when closed and, based on some of the lines on the handle and blade, it really looks like it was intended to sit a little deeper in the handle to begin with.
Just have to be careful to stop just before the tip starts making contact with the backspacer
The pin is probably the smart way to go. Just gonna be tedious with the repeated assembly and test fitting
Kavik@DougFLA123 Edit: here's a sloppy screenshot phone edit of what I'll be shooting for as a final closed position
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As you can see, it's going to be just about a hair's width away from being 100% lined up with the detent (where it was when the stop pin was removed for testing), which should be plenty close enough for increasing the detent strength.
And it should leave me about 1/32" clearance between the tip and the backspacer. Which is plenty clearance, just so long as I don't go even the slightest bit too far......
KavikOne of the most frustrating things, when I buy a knife, is a weak detent. You touch the flipper and the blade pops half way out. Ugh! Very frustrating! I’ve thought about making the detent hole a little bigger in the past, but was afraid it wouldn’t solve the problem and might only make things worse. It sounds like you don’t mind, and are up for a challenge. Hopefully you can pull it off. That’s too bad about your shoulder! Is it a sports related accident/injury?
DougFLA123I can live with having to snap my wrist to finish opening a blade... Annoying, but doable.
My bigger concern is the legality of "gravity assisted knives" in New York. If I can shake it open because of a weak detent, then it's technically not legal to carry.... I don't need to be worrying about that over something like a pocket knife 😒
I'm just going off things I've seen online, and some time spent thinking about how it all works. What I've come up with is that the solution is very specific to each case.
BELOW IS MY THEORETICAL THOUGHT PROCESS. THIS IS IN NO WAY A TRIED AND TRUE "HOW TO" GUIDE
1) With the blade closed, first look inside and see how much of the detent ball is visible and how much is in the hole. If it's already deeply seated then try adjusting the lockbar tension.
If you see the ball is NOT deep enough in the hole then;
2) On a knife where everything lines up perfectly, but the hole is smaller than the ball, drilling out would be the answer (tested by disassembling and manually lining up the ball and the hole with stop pin removed)
3) On a knife where we know the hole is wide and deep enough to accept the full detent ball (in this case verified by my test with the stop pin removed from the equation, then looking inside the closed knife to see the lockbar just about touch the blade), then you need to either
a) move the detent hole to reach the ball, if you are happy with the current closed position. Being careful not to move it TOO far forward, or you will introduce in/out blade play when closed. Or;
b) make your adjustments at the stop pin IF you want the blade to sit further in the handle when closed. Being careful not to adjust TOO much, so that you end up with blade protrusion at the spine or with the blade falling short of the stop pin when the detent is fully engaged.
Also keep in mind, if adjusting by filing the stop pin, you only want to make changes on the stop side. You wouldn't want to, say, turn the whole pin down in a lathe, because then you're also changing how far the blade travels when opening.
I would remove one side of the handle and look at how it sits with the detent and the stop pin to determine which methods you CAN use by how much room you have to play with first.
Then, once you know that, then you can decide which you like better for looks in the closed position.
You're right, I do love a challenge 😈
(though, testing on a cheaper knife would be the smart thing to do.....but where's the fun without some risk? Lol)
Ummmmm.... I guess you could sort of say it's sports related. My 15y/o son decided I need to be taught how to skateboard lol
First time I felll I landed all my weight on one arm that had already been dislocated once before (falling on stairs), and it just popped right out. I had it back in before I even got up, but it definitely tore the ligament.
KavikThat’s a lot of good ‘theorical’ thinking right there. You always post interesting, thoughtful information on here. I’m glad you don’t mind taking the time to share this stuff with the rest of us.
I’ve seen too many gnarly skateboard videos of people breaking ankles, wrists, elbows, teeth, etc, attempting some trick that I would never get on one of those things! 😳
DougFLA123I enjoy just thinking about problems to solve when I'm bored, something to keep my brain occupied :)
And a lot of times writing it out helps me spot problems and come up with new angles I hadn't thought about
Whether the solutions work or not, well, that remains to be seen lol
Hahaha i was literally just riding on a flat surface when I screwed up my timing on pushing and turning and the board went out from under me.... It was pretty pathetic 🤣
But this past weekend I helped him through planning and building some portable grind rails, so that was exciting 😁
DougFLA123It's fixed!!
Details and pics available in my review, but thought I'd share here since you were asking earlier 😁
And @georgeMX if you're curious 😁
KavikI know there were a couple of options you were considering to fix this. How did you make it work? Did you grind down the finger choil or file down the stop pin, or a little of both?
DougFLA123I was trying to avoid double posting, that's why I said details and pics could be found in the review 😝
But, here you go, a copy of what I posted over there:
Filed down one side of the stop pin a very small amount
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Very small amount, couldn't get a good pic
Left JUST enough clearance between the blade and backspacer when closed
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Detent is PERFECT now. Can't shake open no matter how hard I try. Opening is even snappier than before. All improvements, no negatives from the modification.
I'm convinced this is way the knife was intended to be made.
See pic below for green arrows; "shoulder" of blade now lines up perfectly with the high point on the handle, instead of sitting above it. Cutout in blade now runs parallel to the curve in the handle
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This will likely be my daily carry now most days.
Leaving at 4 stars though, as I still think it needs a lockbar insert (been pretty sticky a few times) and I shouldn't have had to take a file to a brand new knife at this price
KavikDidn’t mean to make you repost, but before I asked the question, I re-read all the stuff you posted up above and didn’t see any of these new pictures. It looks great. Everything lines up just the way it should! Even in the original pictures that Massdrop posted to sell this knife, the blade doesn’t seem to line up properly with the handle. Great job.
DougFLA123Yeah, they were over in the review section, not here in the discussion.
No biggie, I just didn't want to clutter things :)
Yeah, mine was at least as far out as that stock pic originally.
Seems to me like the real fix would be for Raidops to move the stop pin about 0.05mm closer to the spine in the handle
(I didn't actually measure lol just saying it's a very small distance)
Thanks for the compliment 😁
KavikHave you checked out the Massdrop x Gavko Thresher collaboration? Its a cool looking blade but the prices are steadily on the rise ($179.99, $199.99) for basically the same materials and just about the same size knives. I liked it when the price range was $79.99 to $139.99. I guess the price keeps rising until the people stop buying. They’re trying to find that upper limit of what we’re willing to pay.
DougFLA123I looked at it....it appeals to the 13 year old in me lol but I have no practical use for that blade, and am trying to cut back on purchases.
I saw the comments and theories about the price point... And I kinda agree a bit on the feeling out of what the market will bear....but I also see their point about the extra machining involved on them vs the previous collaborations
BarryOHey Barry, I’m going to have to pass. I do own a Liong Mah SDC V2 (similar but different) and love it, but I’ve been trying to cut back on my out of control knife spending. You must have a very nice collection to own TWO Liong Mah Tuxedo knives! : )
Regarding the detent, here's what I've found: The lockbar has plenty of strength to it, but the detent ball doesn't fully seat in the hole when the knife is closed. You can see a large gap when viewed from the side while closed, just the very tip of the ball goes in)
After disassembly I did an experiment. Took out the stop pin, reassembled, and carefully closed the blade. At this point the detent ball was fully seated in the hole and the blade would not shake open no matter how hard I tried. But opening with the middle finger flick was still nice and easy, and the blade springs out much more solidly every time.
The problem though, is that when the detent is fully engaged the blade is so far in the handle that the tip just barely makes contact with the backspacer. Note the difference by the arrows below :
Stock-
Stop pin removed -
Easiest way would be grinding out the finger choil a little further so the blade closes further before it hits the stop pin, but then I need to also remove material from the backspacer for clearance and re-anodize that. Removing material from the stop pin would have the same drawback with the backspacer..... So, I guess drilling out the detent hole in the blade is the way to go in this case? Do I just use a larger drill bit and drill on center? I'm worried if I try with the same size moved up just a hair, the bit is going to just walk back into the original hole. (I have a decent drill press, not doing this by hand... But still, small bits flex, and runout is a thing)
If anyone here has experience doing that, I'd love to hear it
Even if they did: a) detent strength is different in every knife, a weak detent isn't an automatic red flag. My complaint on that may be someone else's preference. b) they sure as hell better not be adjusting pivots, which is the only way they would've noticed the discrepancies in loctite there.
I still have high praise for this knife overall, the only part in mine that I'm really upset by was the cement like loctite. The detent 'issue' is more of a fine tuning customization sort of thing I think.
And i believe the issues @GeorgeMX is having could potentially be fixed with a tear down cleaning and reassembly. The lock grinding may or may not be a serious issue, but the loosening pivot is easily dealt with with a touch of blue Loctite, and I'd consider that common maintenance. Although I completely understand his position on not wanting to have to do that immediately on a brand new knife, for me that's always the first step with a new one anyway.
I'm sure MD will process his return without question, but I'm not looking for anything like that myself
I think my fix is going to be either deepening the finger choil, or filing down the stop pin, rather than drilling out the detent hole. The reason being that those 2 options will pull the blade down into the handle just a bit more when closed and, based on some of the lines on the handle and blade, it really looks like it was intended to sit a little deeper in the handle to begin with.
Just have to be careful to stop just before the tip starts making contact with the backspacer
The pin is probably the smart way to go. Just gonna be tedious with the repeated assembly and test fitting
Edit: here's a sloppy screenshot phone edit of what I'll be shooting for as a final closed position
And it should leave me about 1/32" clearance between the tip and the backspacer. Which is plenty clearance, just so long as I don't go even the slightest bit too far......
I'm just going off things I've seen online, and some time spent thinking about how it all works. What I've come up with is that the solution is very specific to each case. BELOW IS MY THEORETICAL THOUGHT PROCESS. THIS IS IN NO WAY A TRIED AND TRUE "HOW TO" GUIDE
1) With the blade closed, first look inside and see how much of the detent ball is visible and how much is in the hole. If it's already deeply seated then try adjusting the lockbar tension. If you see the ball is NOT deep enough in the hole then; 2) On a knife where everything lines up perfectly, but the hole is smaller than the ball, drilling out would be the answer (tested by disassembling and manually lining up the ball and the hole with stop pin removed) 3) On a knife where we know the hole is wide and deep enough to accept the full detent ball (in this case verified by my test with the stop pin removed from the equation, then looking inside the closed knife to see the lockbar just about touch the blade), then you need to either a) move the detent hole to reach the ball, if you are happy with the current closed position. Being careful not to move it TOO far forward, or you will introduce in/out blade play when closed. Or; b) make your adjustments at the stop pin IF you want the blade to sit further in the handle when closed. Being careful not to adjust TOO much, so that you end up with blade protrusion at the spine or with the blade falling short of the stop pin when the detent is fully engaged. Also keep in mind, if adjusting by filing the stop pin, you only want to make changes on the stop side. You wouldn't want to, say, turn the whole pin down in a lathe, because then you're also changing how far the blade travels when opening.
I would remove one side of the handle and look at how it sits with the detent and the stop pin to determine which methods you CAN use by how much room you have to play with first. Then, once you know that, then you can decide which you like better for looks in the closed position.
You're right, I do love a challenge 😈 (though, testing on a cheaper knife would be the smart thing to do.....but where's the fun without some risk? Lol)
Ummmmm.... I guess you could sort of say it's sports related. My 15y/o son decided I need to be taught how to skateboard lol First time I felll I landed all my weight on one arm that had already been dislocated once before (falling on stairs), and it just popped right out. I had it back in before I even got up, but it definitely tore the ligament.
I’ve seen too many gnarly skateboard videos of people breaking ankles, wrists, elbows, teeth, etc, attempting some trick that I would never get on one of those things! 😳
Hahaha i was literally just riding on a flat surface when I screwed up my timing on pushing and turning and the board went out from under me.... It was pretty pathetic 🤣 But this past weekend I helped him through planning and building some portable grind rails, so that was exciting 😁
And @georgeMX if you're curious 😁
But, here you go, a copy of what I posted over there:
Filed down one side of the stop pin a very small amount
Left JUST enough clearance between the blade and backspacer when closed
Detent is PERFECT now. Can't shake open no matter how hard I try. Opening is even snappier than before. All improvements, no negatives from the modification. I'm convinced this is way the knife was intended to be made. See pic below for green arrows; "shoulder" of blade now lines up perfectly with the high point on the handle, instead of sitting above it. Cutout in blade now runs parallel to the curve in the handle
Yeah, mine was at least as far out as that stock pic originally. Seems to me like the real fix would be for Raidops to move the stop pin about 0.05mm closer to the spine in the handle (I didn't actually measure lol just saying it's a very small distance)
Thanks for the compliment 😁
I saw the comments and theories about the price point... And I kinda agree a bit on the feeling out of what the market will bear....but I also see their point about the extra machining involved on them vs the previous collaborations