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teckel
121
Nov 30, 2016
I don't get it AT ALL!
teckelIt is a macro pad. Many "casual" users probably have no use for this, and many "gamers" probably already have enough macro keys on their gaming keyboard.
But I really this this is catered to the professionals out there in need of a good macro pad. I can use myself as an example. I am an audio engineer and constantly and working with large format consoles in studios, many of which have their Pro Tools system shoved off in some corner. This means I'm constantly rolling around in a chair back and forth to use the transport controls while mixing/setting levels/etc. This pad will allow me to have my own macros saved (so no use for software on a computer) that I can bring along to mixing sessions in any studio with a long USB cable and will be able to program any keys I want into this pad. For example I can access my separate edit and mix windows, use play/pause/rec easily from the center of the console.
This is just an example for me. Anyone that does any kind of editing (video, photo, audio) rendering, etc can make very good use of this.
livingspeedbumpIt's really cool to hear how you're planning on using the pad, you have to take some photos of it in use sometime and send them to us :)
teckel
121
Nov 30, 2016
livingspeedbumpI see. I stopped using the keyboard to control apps when the mouse was invented. The only keyboard shortcuts I use is Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V. I just don't get layout, key colors, "panic" button? Totally lost why this is useful, and why one made out of aluminum would be desirable. Probably need to be a millennial to understand why anyone would want this for even $10 let alone $100.
teckelPro Tools isn't an app. Nobody uses a mouse to control Pro Tools, you will literally not get asked back to a job if you use a mouse, it would be far too slow.
Having a nice looking macro pad like this instead of some glowing Razer monstrosity is definitely worth it.
Have you never been part of a community with an enthusiast side before?
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You can see here how the transport keyboard and pro tools setup is on the other side of the room. How do you propose I use a mouse in a situation like this? Even with a long USB cable id never be able to see the pointer enough to find what i need from the middle of the room. With a pad like this I just put it right over the master controls in the center of the console and can easily do just about anything I would need to in pro tools without moving during a live session.
teckel
121
Nov 30, 2016
livingspeedbumpSounds like a very unique case you have there, I've never heard of pro tools before. I would position the monitor in front, with a wireless mouse, but that's just me. My son is doing an internship as a sound engineer, I'll ask him for some insight.
teckelHey dude, totally understandable, it's not for everyone :) I won't try and sell you on it since I wouldn't want you to buy something you don't need, but I can make an analogy to help you understand why other people are interested in it.
Think about it like a tool. You can buy a $5 pop rivet gun, or you can buy a $200 air rivet gun that's 5 seconds faster per rivet and is a little easier on your hands. When you're fixing two pieces of metal together quickly every now and then, the $5 rivet gun works just fine, it'd be an indulgence to buy the $200 gun when you use it maybe once a year. But when you use it every day, when you're putting 1000 rivets into something a day, the $200 gun starts making a bit more sense - it saves you a couple of seconds each time you use it, and you get the luxury of your hands not cramping up every 10 minutes.
That's what the M10-A is, it's the $200 rivet gun to the mouse and keyboard's $5 gun. They do fundamentally the same thing, but one saves a little time for the people using it 1000 times a day, it's well built, and it's a bit of a luxury item too.
Like I said before, to each his own. I won't try to sell you on a lump of aluminum you don't need, and I'm not going to profess that the M10-A is a total necessity and not a bit of an indulgence, but hopefully that gives you an idea of why other people like it and what they're going to use it for :)
He was using "millennial" as a derogatory term. -_-
teckel
121
Dec 1, 2016
Seems like a pointless hipster gadget that only has a $100 value to a trust fund hipster. I simply don't get it AT ALL! There's no hate here, just 100% confusion. I've never needed to use a complicated keyboard shortcut, and I've never needed to program a key or need a macropad as a result.
Maybe this is one of those things that is super useful for a niche group of people, like recording engineers? Since I'm not in that universe it seems totally alien to me. And why is it teathered with a cable? Seems like a wireless version would be 10 times as convenient.
I simply don't get it. Which is why I'm guessing it's a millennial thing and I'm far too old to comprehend the need.
teckelYou admit you know nothing about the product, then continue to spew out random assumptions like "trust fund hipster" and "millennial" like you know what you're talking about. And for some reason you're still here just complaining about something you obviously aren't buying and admittedly have no understanding of?
Pretty much ANYONE that makes a living using a computer in this day and age will not only understand the point of this, but would be able to put it to use. Sure, not everyone will want to drop this much money on something like this, but by the sales already, it's clear that this is a product that people do want.
Wireless is a whole different beast. You immediately have to start worrying about FCC laws, shipping gets a lot more complicated, and using lithium ion batteries further complicates shipping, etc. Its not like you just say "oh, lets make this wireless." Not at all how it works.
If you are just using Netscape to browse the web and Juno to check your email, you obviously don't need this product.
Vigrith
4081
Dec 1, 2016
teckelGetting all riled up for no reason are we - I'm sure plenty of people here are far from being millennials, associating stupidity and (blissful) ignorance with age is such a retrograde and backwards way of thinking. Your lack of understanding has absolutely nothing to do with being "old" or otherwise, these things aren't directly/inversely proportional, it's about education and common sense.
Your condescending and utterly ridiculous phrasing is what's coming across as crass, not your lack of knowledge regarding the product. If you are actually looking for information just read Livingspeedbump's (and @KingRama's , elsewhere) replies, if you're just here to be patronizing and imply 300+ of "youngsters" (wrongfully assumed, maybe you're right though if you're like 85 years old, if that's the case then my bad) are complete idiots just because we happen to not be born before the Berlin wall was built then I suppose you can just continue to ignore the explanations. Your assumptions and colossal narrow mindedness are just uncalled for either way, I figured this was obvious.
teckelNo worries man, like I said, it's not for everyone :) It's a tool that does a job, and if you don't need to do that job, the tool doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
@livingspeedbump got it pretty much right on with the wireless stuff, we'd love to make a wireless M10-A, but it's a little beyond us right now. Electronically (my world) it's not too complicated but the regulation and shipping side is a little daunting, and this is our first product on Massdrop so we don't want to disappoint people with shipping delays and cost overruns because we didn't do our regulatory research properly.
Last thing, people seem to be getting super-antsy about the millennial thing, and we're agreed that a good chunk of the people buying the M10-A pad are under 25. Massdrop tends to attract a slightly younger audience on the whole than say eBay or Amazon so the numbers reflect that, but I think it's less an age thing and more a type-of-work thing. I'm likely a little younger than you but squarely a Gen-Yer, and the pad is still pretty useful for the kind of work I do (electronic engineering, programming, CAD). I spend a lot of time at a keyboard and have a bunch of silly-long keyboard shortcuts memorised for doing specific things in the packages I use, that's one of the reasons Rama & I built the pad, it's something we'd both like to use.
If you want another example of a similar idea, take a look at day-trading keyboards or keyboards on POS terminals, they tend to be custom and have keys to do specific things in whatever software package is running on the computer they're hooked up to :)
teckel
121
Dec 1, 2016
VigrithNot sure why you think anyone is riled up over this (other than yourself). I just don't get what it is nor why anyone would pay $100 for it. It was simply a statement that I don't understand what the point of this product is. It's like a unicorn brush to me. I'm sure it's a fine unicorn brush, but what's the point?
I read some of the comments about this product and it only makes me even more confused. It's a unicorn brush to me, or maybe an elf comb, but you get the idea.
teckel
121
Dec 1, 2016
massdrop27percentI've been a software developer for almost 30 years and I don't use keyboard shortcuts. I've heard some of the interns I work with mention keyboard shortcuts, but I've never felt the need. This product looked interesting so I tried to learn more about it, but the more I read I was confused even more. Like what do the colors indicate? What is the "panic" button for? And why would someone pay $100-150 for this? Seriously, it's a unicorn brush to me.
teckel
121
Dec 1, 2016
livingspeedbumpYup, I know nothing about the product and don't understand the purpose. Which is why I posted that I don't get it at all. Not complaining at all, just wondering why people are buying a unicorn brush, that's it.
teckelAh, you've probably got 10 years on me! Different working style I'd imagine, works for some, doesn't work for others, like I said before, to each his own :) Take a look at EagleCAD, that's one of the packages I use for electronics design & PCB layout, it's really helpful to be able to push a button to switch between tools, especially when you're toggling between tools a dozen times a minute. I think the keys are more of a stylistic choice, kind of a color-scheme thing going on, and Rama is a bit of a fan of panic keys. You can set the buttons to do whatever you want them to do, so the colors are arbitrary anyway. When you're brushing a lot of unicorns, it makes sense to get a nice brush :)
pireze
3
Dec 1, 2016
teckelOne possible use of this item is where access to the full keyboard is not viable. For example, I do a lot of my photo editing on a Cintiq, mounted on a mechanical arm. Due to the way my workstation is set up and other constraints of the space, when the Cintiq is in use, I don't have easy access to my keyboard. For certain operations like skin clean up, I use a technique that requires multiple steps. I have programmed these steps as an action in Photoshop, and use a custom keyboard shortcut to trigger those steps. So rather than manually repeat all those same steps every time, I just program that shortcut to the keypad, and because the keypad is much smaller than the full keyboard, I can position it close to or on the Cintiq itself. I press a key and presto, the program runs through the entire sequence. This may be a 30 second time saving per photo, but where one edits hundreds of photos, that time saving becomes quite substantial. Now, it is possible to position the cursor on the small "play" button of the action panel and activate the programmed action, but sometimes the action panel is not extended because I like a clearer workspace. Reaching over to a keypad and pressing a single button is much less disruptive to the workflow, and faster. In regards to the item itself, I agree $100 is probably a bit dear for a keypad. However, the metal and mech build quality does make up for it. I also agree that the standard key caps set with the panic button won't suit my needs, but the beauty of mech is that key caps are customisable and can be replaced. If you consider the alternatives for this sort of shortcut/macro keypad, the ones from Razer (plastic build, non mech keys) are in around the same price range (though they do have more keys). Others, like the industrial looking ones from Topre or X-Keys, are dearer still (though again they have more keys). It must be noted that having more keys does not necessarily mean better. Sometimes with these items, depending on the individual user, only a few keys are needed. Personally, a keypad with fewer keys is easier to develop muscle memory for. So yes, this is a niche product intended for users who actually have a use for it, but it's far from being an unicorn brush, nor is it the preserve of privileged hipster young'uns.
Willyc277
31
Dec 2, 2016
teckelmaybe you don't understand because you're an idiot...
Willyc277Appreciate the support but try and keep it civil man :D It's not a crime to disagree, not yet anyway :P
teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
Willyc277Probably
teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
massdrop27percentI create Eagle CAD files all the time using Fritzlab. If there's keyboard shortcuts I'm not aware of them. I use my mouse, which was created so you didn't have to use keyboard shortcuts anymore. That was back in Windows 3.1
teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
pirezeAt least my unicorn brush analogy wasn't lost in translation. I've done the same sort of thing in Photoshop for 1500 images. I just did it all programmatically with no $150 keyboard presses required.
Zanduby
80
Dec 2, 2016
teckelOk, we understand your old and don't like new things. But i've always been told to work smarter not harder, and it looks like you've done things the hard way for way too long. Also, why have you been on this fighting everyone so hard? If you don't like the product, fine. You don't understand why someone would want to use, fine. Leave. Simple as that. Oh but that would require the use of a shortcut, such as a esc button, or a "back" button and you don't like to use those...
hkf57
16
Dec 2, 2016
teckel> I've been a software developer for almost 30 years and I don't use keyboard shortcuts.
Bwahahahahhahaha
enjoy being replaced by efficiency.
Also how did you do anything if you have been a developer for 30 years and havn't touched vim or emacs?
teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
hkf57I didn't say that I didn't use keyboard shortcuts in the past, I actually said the contrary. Before the mouse, keyboard shortcuts were of course used. What I said was that I *don't* use keyboard shortcuts [in the present] other than Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V. Far more efficient using the mouse. With Photoshop, I use actions.
teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
ZandubyI've seen a keyboard before. Never one with a "Panic" button. I work smarter too, which is why I use the device invented to replace keyboard shortcuts , the mouse. Also, I use a *wireless* mouse too! $150 for a wired keyboard with 9 keys? That's a unicorn brush. Not fighting at all, simply stating that it makes no sense to have a unicorn brush. It's my choice to leave or stay, as it is yours. If you don't like my opinion, simple, leave. In other words, it goes both ways chief.
hkf57efficiency=trust fun millennial hipsters, more than likely haha =P
Vigrith
4081
Dec 2, 2016
teckelCome on, what in the world are you talking about now, jiminy cricket. $150? My transaction page says $122 and that's including international shipping to Europe, Zeal switches and assembly. Weird. The actual item doesn't even cost 100 if you solder and pick gaterons (which are perfectly good switches). The fact you need to use gross hyperboles just exacerbates the problem people have with your posting style and makes your argument look redundant - if your opinion is so valid you wouldn't need to throw around pedantic baby boomer terms and exaggerate prices and functionalities (lack thereof). Your age is moot, this is common sense, my 12 year old cousin understands this.
Your opinion is fine, you don't understand what this is or what it achieves, unlucky, it has been explained several times in detail and you choose to ignore the benefits as they would not be relevant to you and your work methods (or so you think). Great, you've saved "$150". The way you're wording things is just absolutely ridiculous, your reply to me was acceptable hence I figured it'd best to put the matter to rest but you are relentless. You've said your piece, that's enough, give it a rest soldier.
rsd_raul
0
Dec 2, 2016
Vigrith122*1.21 is still 147.62ۻ, let's not kill the guy or/and refer to our 12 year old cousin just yet... To avoid those gross hyperboles you where talking about mostly.
ªApplying the 21% VAT in Spain, for example.
On the other hand, I do not share teckel's view, well, to be honest I kinda do, but I don't see why is my bussiness to make everyone aware of my opinion, much less to force them to agree with me... If you feel the minipad is worth 100/150 dollars for you... Then it is! As simple as that.
Also hkf57, don't make me laught, those 2ms you shave with this cute little keyboard means little to nothing in the real world... Like I don't, and never will, see people complaning in code reviews because you wasted 2 full seconds of your day coding a solution to a problem/algorithm/app/etc... Once again, if you wanna keep thinking that, it's your right to do so.
teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
VigrithSorry touched a nerve with you. I simply didn't remember if it was $100 or $150 or how much it was assembled and shipped. Whatever, $100 for a unicorn brush is too much as well in my opinion.
Branny
733
Dec 2, 2016
teckelThe only reason it doesn't make sense to you is because you arn't a keyboard enthusiast or a niche "pro" who needs it(I dont need it but I want it).
Vigrith
4081
Dec 2, 2016
rsd_raulI wasn't aware you knew me, my family or my cousin who happens to be 12 years old. It was not a hyperbole, it was factual. She's 13 on the 27th! I'm not killing anyone, I'm advocating precision and facts.
The price in Euro as well as taxing is irrelevant as he referred to it as costing $150, there's no argument there, not sure why you'd even bring that up. Exaggerating the price from 100 to 150 is 33.33(3)% increase, that's not negligible, if one does not recall the price and is too busy/self entitled to not flip the page back and check the price (you could set up a macro to do that by the way, faster than using your mouse to slowly move toward the page arrows on the top left of the browser) for the sake of being accurate then that voids any point that person's attempting to make. Better to be quiet at that point.
I'm not defending the product here, this could be an automatic orange squeezer and my stance on the situation would be the exact same. If you are unwilling to accept facts and rather name call for no reason at all then there's a problem that the person needs to face.
teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
VigrithIt wasn't an exaggeration, the regular price was $150, which is what I remembered. Please forgive me that I remembered the price as $150 instead of $100. The price wasn't on the page as I was replying (the price isn't listed AT ALL when you reply to a message via the emailed link) and I remember seeing the $150 (which I see now is the regular price). Amazing this is such an issue for you, but please find it in your heart to forgive me remembering the retail price and not the MD price.
teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
BrannyThere's such thing as a "keyboard enthusiast"? Tell more!
kinglukas38
14
Dec 2, 2016
Vigrith
4081
Dec 2, 2016
teckelThere is no retail price. Massdrop's coding requires a value to be put in and in this case it was $150 because without MD that'd probably have been the price it would've cost, this is not sold elsewhere, I figured you'd have figured this out by now, the excuse is still not valid.
Branny
733
Dec 2, 2016
teckelMaybe research your self. r/mechanicalkeyboards (getting invaded by infidels) .
Branny
733
Dec 2, 2016
teckelHhmm, I feel like your trolling..... or are you that lazy
rsd_raul
0
Dec 2, 2016
Vigrith"The price in Euro as well as taxing is irrelevant as he referred to it as costing $150 " How is the total price of an item, from store to you irrelevant?? Are you serious?? Are you one of those people that buys items with "50% discount" without noticing you are paying that 50% on shipment because some smartass thought nobody will notice?? Because as you might imagine I don´t know you, but still, I'm safely assuming you are not that type of person... Call it a hunch. Ps: Sorry for the € sign, I meant $, it was a reflex. "(you could set up a macro to do that by the way, faster than using your mouse to slowly move toward the page arrows on the top left of the browser) " Oh nein you didn't! (I'm new, not sure if this page has some sort of .gif support) And just to humor you... Remember it will take you more time to buy the pad, set the macro, remember the key, remember the layer (I'm assuming you are not gonna waist 1/10 keys just to go back) and each time to reach your pad than what's gonna take him to remember... "alt + left key" And surprise!!! "alt + right key" is gonna allow him to go forward to answer in a split second... Intuitive they might say, time saving they might say, inexpensive they might say. Not saying there is no use in macros, obviously, I know there is... Just saying this wasn't a good example, at all. "If you are unwilling to accept facts and rather name call for no reason at all then there's a problem that the person needs to face." Facts are sometimes tied to a personal circumstance: - For someone living in the US: 99,9$ (0 shipment?) - For me in Spain: 132.64$ - For you in X country: 122$ + VAT/Customs/Similar They are all facts, they are all about the same product, they are all true... AND yet they are all different. So, I understand the "precision and facts" justice you are looking for, but let's give the so called "facts" some wiggle room if we don't know them. Ps: Regarding your cousin, this is internet, we all have a 12 year old cousin/nephew/brothers if it suits our purposes, it might be true, it might not... Aaaaand just to be clear, I'm not saying it's not true.
teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
VigrithAnyway, that's the number I remembered as it's not on this page.
eksuen
748
Dec 2, 2016
Branny@teckel He's trolling. He's being deliberately inflammatory despite any claims to the contrary. He'll accuse others of trolling then turn around and do it himself. Just look at his comments in drops he has a passion for and compare that with his behavior here. I'll let some choice words of his speak for themselves. It's amusing how many of his own comments apply to him here.
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teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
eksuenCreeper alert!
teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
That's probably how I would program the "panic" button.
teckel
121
Dec 2, 2016
kinglukas38Proof we're in the final days on this plant.
eksuen
748
Dec 2, 2016
teckel
search
teckelHey all.
I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s replies in this discussion, but it’s starting to get a little off the rails and I’m going to ask everyone to go ahead and let this one go before it becomes a personal insult contest.
Thanks everyone.
teckelSomeone needs to just create a way people can hop through a wormhole, shake hands, have a beer, and get on with things. Would solve basically all the world problems.
Said wormhole should also have a control panel created by Rama. Maybe with some of those rad PBT Milky Way keycaps?.,....
AlexPkI was about to post the same myself, I think we're at the point of diminishing returns for everyone so it's probably time to put the thread to rest :)
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