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DDro
390
Sep 10, 2017
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Kinetic only makes sense if you will wear it often. the kinetic mechanism consists of a mechanical charger and a battery. It takes a lot of wear to charge the battery a little
I bought a kinetic diver for use on occasion (e.g., on vacations, etc.) . Unfortunately realized after buying it that it needs regular wear to keep charged. if the battery goes too low (from non use), the battery will get damaged and will need to be replaced.
Automatic or solar are better options for infrequently used watches
Sep 10, 2017
A community member
Sep 10, 2017
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DDroYeah, wrong, wrong and wrong again. I happen to own this watch and I get 6 months of standby time after 4-5 days of wearing it. Before that it goes into a battery save mode. Even if you don't wear it and it's empy, you can start it up by a few shakes. Seiko kinetic is a really good system and works perfect. Also, mine is really accurate: +/- 1 second in a month.
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Sep 10, 2017
DDro
390
Sep 10, 2017
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Dude, sorry if I hurt your feelings for your watch. You are wrong (and for that matter, using your childish terminology, wrong and wrong again too).
Look online and find find the threads of people trying to find creative ways to charge their kinetics (e.g., some people figured out to use Sonicare toothbrush chargers). Others tried attaching to a bicycle wheel. Normal automatic winders don't work. The fact is that the charger mechanism isn't very efficient; takes a lot of activity to charge.
Kinetics are great if you wear somewhat regularly. Not so great if you want to wear quite infrequently. I wear mine primarily on vacation and can't get it charged fully, even after 2 weeks of wear. Highest I've gotten is 2nd level, and it declines from there. My watch is usually always at the lowest charge measurement. If the battery ever gets damaged from running low, its more complicated to replace than just putting in a new battery on a regular quartz watch.
i wouldn't buy another kinetic and wished I hadn't bought the one I am wearing now. If I wanted a charger/battery solution again, I'd buy solar.
Of course it it is accurate--it's a quartz watch with a mechanically charged lithium battery.
Sep 10, 2017
A community member
Sep 10, 2017
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DDroNot a matter of "feelings": it's a matter of fact: not anecdotal references. Also: if you do not wear a watch for 6 months in a row - which is about the limit of this model - you probably should not have bought it. I don't call six month "infrequent wear". Btw: If you can't get a full charge in 2 weeks, your probably sitting on your *** too much. I currently have 78 watches and my Seiko's still outperform most of them. I can rotate this watch in and out of my collection, no sweat. I don't need a auto winder just a short jog or playing some squash will do it... And no this watch is not perfect. But it does what it needs to do pretty darn good...
Sep 10, 2017
DDro
390
Sep 11, 2017
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Maybe you got a good kinetic and I got a not so good one (along with the other watch forum who posted about their challenges in keeping their kinetics charged).
I agree I probably should not have bought it. As I said I should have just purchased a solar charged quartz Seiko or an automatic. That was my point.
For many people kinetic will be great -- people should just be wary of the shortcomings. No one warned me of them when I purchased mine.
Sep 11, 2017
Tigerman
412
Sep 11, 2017
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DDroI think it's a good point. I also didn't realise this particular advantage of solar until it was pointed out to me. A solar watch can charge even when you don't wear it. Definitely a plus for some people. Other people might not get much charge for a solar watch over winter, if they wear long sleeves etc. I think both systems work well for the majority of people, so it's not something to stress about unless you know you're at the extreme, or you are a bit OCD like me and like to think your battery is nice and full and healthy, even when you know it holds enough power for months.
Sep 11, 2017
Cloaca
1906
Sep 11, 2017
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DDroSeiko has different kinds of Kinetic movements, and the original 1990s movement had the problem that DDro describes. The question is which Kinetic technology this watch incorporates, Quartz Kinetic, Kinetic Direct Drive, or Kinetic Spring Drive. The latter two are fine even when left in a drawer for months.
Sep 11, 2017
DDro
390
Sep 11, 2017
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CloacaMine is an ska371 (BFK) diver. It is a nice watch, keeps great time, but as I mentioned it's a PITA to keep charged with occasional use (vacations and weekends on and off).
I know the kinetic drive used to use a capacitor to store energy but that was problematic, and the new ones (like mine) a lithium battery that is more reliable but still tough to charge. I didn't realize there were were other versions -- any idea what this one uses?
Sep 11, 2017
DDro
390
Sep 11, 2017
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TigermanOCD, maybe! But my real concern was putting it on a while back and finding it at the lowest charge level. I know lithiums can get ruined if they are run down below a certain voltage -- not good if it happens in a watch like this. I don't think a local repair shop would fix... back to Seiko it would have to go. ...
Sep 11, 2017
Tigerman
412
Sep 11, 2017
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DDroOh I didn't mean to say OCD about you! Hope you didn't think so. I was trying to say "unless one is a bit OCD, like me". I know what you mean about lithium batteries. They definitely degrade, so you don't want to mistreat them if you can avoid it. I did mean that everyone has a different threshold for acceptable mistreatment of batteries, and they are all perfectly valid since you can't really measure the degradation until the battery dies. If I were you, and was not using a watch very often, I'd expect it to last quite a long time, and if I found out that it was going to wear out faster than usual, I'd be disappointed too.
Sep 11, 2017
A community member
Sep 11, 2017
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DDroMaybe the older kinetics had certain issues, but this uses 5M85 movement which replaces the discontinued 5M62 movement and should be an improvement in many ways. Also: replacing the capacitor (which should last many many years anyway - just look at the older kinetics) is a very easy/cheap task. Even for old kinetic movements like the 7M22b.
Also: if it doesn't charge well, and people complain about it, my only question is: what was Seiko's response when they contacted them about these alleged "issues"? Even if you find dozens of complaints in forums, it only means something in relation to a) how many were sold b) how a manufacturer handles issues. So far Seiko's reputation is pretty good...
And yeah I can imagine a regular watch winder won't do the trick, but why would you need one? 6 months reserve power should be enough or just start it again with a few 'shakes' (per instructions in the manual) .
Long story short: your judgment is based on an older model/movement and has no relevance here whatsoever. Apples to apples and such..
Sep 11, 2017
DDro
390
Sep 12, 2017
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Look at the manual for your watch movement, specifically page 6. https://www.seikowatches.com/support/ib/pdf/SEIKO_5M85.pdf
You need 250 shakes to reserve a days worth of power according to Seiko. That translates to approximately 45,000 shakes to fully charge the watch (~180 days of charge). And this is when the watch is new and the battery is operating fully to spec.
The watch is great if you regularly wear it, less ideal if you do not.
Face it the watch works for some, not for others.
Sep 12, 2017
Cloaca
1906
Sep 12, 2017
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DDroFor a 10-day charge that's about 4 shakes a minute over 12 hours of wear. Have you considered a more active livestyle? :-) Dancing?
Sep 12, 2017
A community member
Sep 12, 2017
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DDroCorrect, if you sit around too much it won't work out. Like Cloaca said... If you can't manage to move that much, your probably on your way to a cardiac arrest anyway...
So either get a regular quartz watch and just change the battery out, or get a solar version. Personally I like the hybrid mechanics of kinetic watches too.
However: If you consider yourself active and healthy (like most Europeans), you can reach that amount in no time. Which is also in line with the guy that did a commercial for the SUN049P1

model: tennis pro Novak Djokovic ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKYNihnaLyY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE3oLiuQ6rY
Sep 12, 2017
A community member
Sep 12, 2017
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CloacaHaha, thanks for that comment and making my point for me...
Seriously: if you're a right handed man and wear your watch on your right hand, you probably get more "shakes" than that in 5 minutes when you rub one out. Should last you some time too ... ;-)
Sep 12, 2017
Tigerman
412
Sep 13, 2017
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Whoa, the OP was quite reasonable and factual, and he's been told that he's extremely wrong, and he should take up dancing, tennis, and wanking? Oh that's right, this is the internet. @DDro you probably have to suffer a while longer. Thanks for taking one for the team. :)
Sep 13, 2017
DDro
390
Sep 16, 2017
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TigermanI guess I got a chance to serve as the punching bag of someone who has some insecurities about his material possessions...
Not a big deal. I just want to help people make informed decisions.
Sep 16, 2017
AUTigerFan
148
Sep 16, 2017
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DDroDDro, I appreciate your comments, as I had a similar, suboptimal experience with a predecessor of the Seiko kinetic GMT offered here. Indeed, I wish I had done a little more research prior to buying that watch (an impulse purchase at a Seiko outlet store). OTOH, my experience with that watch made me consider which features I valued most in a watch. So, without my experience with that Seiko kinetic watch, I may have never made the transition to solar-charged quartz watches (like the SSC017 I was inspired to purchase by a Massdrop offering) and to automatic mechanical watches (like the Orient Ray II Raven I bought through Massdrop). For me, some of the joy in wearing a watch is derived from the memory of the pleasure I experienced in contemplating its purchase.
Sep 16, 2017
A community member
Sep 16, 2017
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DDroSorry but I could not keep a straight face when you complained about the fact that the kinetic does not play nice with your watch winder, and the fact that you apparently can't move your body enough in a few hours to power the watch for at least a few days.
I should not have been so harsh, because for all I know you're sitting in a wheelchair or have some other impairment that makes powering a kinetic watch hard on you.
And yes; I'm also into making informed decisions.
So here's my advice: if you are not half past dead and can manage about 4 watch shakes a minute over 12 hours of wear, you'll get a 10-day charge out of this watch and you don't need to use a watch winder to do your work. It's a fine piece of technology and no one should be weary buying it.
Sep 16, 2017
DDro
390
Sep 16, 2017
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Whatever, dude. As I’ve said many times already: I bought the watch for only occasional use and that it wasn’t ideal for my needs. All I wanted to do was to inform others that it may not meet theirs – I’ve done that – so I’m done here.
I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you; I generally don't like engaging with people whose first impulse is to make personal attacks when they disagree. (Come on, are you really that offended that I suggested the movement in your watch may not meet everybody’s needs?)
I’m thankfully not in a wheelchair and quite fit (albeit not European – why did you even bring that up???) but think it’s rather pathetic that you choose to suggest those were the reasons the watch didn’t meet my needs. I’m done here.
Sep 16, 2017
A community member
Sep 16, 2017
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DDroI think it's the other way around and it became personal for you. Because quite frankly, my reactions are based on your own claims and then the odd advice that comes from it.
So let's dissect that for a minute before you can play the "he attacked me personally " card (like where?).
Your own words:
"Kinetic only makes sense if you will wear it often. "
We already established this watch has a max reserve of 6 months. So if you wear it like twice or three times a year it should be fine: even if you wear it less, you give it a few shakes to wake it up and it will move again.
"It takes a lot of wear to charge the battery a little ".
To put that into perspective: we established that with this movement you can get a 10 day charge if you only wear it for 12 hours and move your arm about 4 times a minute (or 20 times in 5 minutes).
That, sir, is by any standard not: "a lot of wear to charge the battery (...) a little". I think it's fair to say that any healthy, average person meets those criteria. And in fact, if you actively engage in any kind of physical exercise, you probably get 10 days of charge in way less time...
"if the battery goes too low (from non use), the battery will get damaged and will need to be replaced. "
No, the battery doesn't get "damaged" from running "too low" because it doesn't run "too low" as it shuts off to prevent just that from happening. Off course, like all quartz watches, you will eventually have to replace your capacitor/battery. But there are many Seiko kinetics - even from the older series - that run easily for +10 years.
"I wear mine primarily on vacation and can't get it charged fully, even after 2 weeks of wear. "
That, sir, tells us more about you then that it is a sound source for advice. If you do the math for this Seiko with the 5M85 kinetic movement and you wear it 14 days, 24x7 you should get 6 months easily.
So you are basing your advice to others for this watch on what? Apparently on owning a Seiko with another movement and on the fact that you apparently (just doing the math here) don't move around enough in 14 days a year to get your watch charged.
So yeah, if you want to cry about "personal attacks" while I'm pointing out every flaw in your arguments and flawed advice - as it is based on your own anecdotal experience based on NOT even owning this particular watch and NOT based on this particular movement coupled with a obviously "less than active" lifestyle - then by all means be my guest.
I'm done here...
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Sep 16, 2017
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