Click to view our Accessibility Statement or contact us with accessibility-related questions
Showing 1 of 33 conversations about:
SharpEdge ZDP-189 Bunka Kitchen Knife
pendle616
51
Mar 21, 2019
I’m a huge kitchen knife geek. Have spent and sold thousands in my search for the best. That search ended awhile ago, but that’s another story. One thing I will say is that ZDP is a pain to sharpen. And it will need sharpening. No edge lasts forever. No matter the steel or HRC. Besides that though... why isn’t there more defining shots of the spine/distal taper(if there is one, and there should be btw. Distal taper effects performance greatly...), choil shots, tip shots, and handle circumference specs? The spine is dreadfully thin for sustained comfort over long cutting periods if one is utilizing a pinch grip. I’m guessing it’s ground so thin as to give the illusion of better performance- the ‘drop through product’ effect. Without the above pics and a better idea of the grind, this seems like a ridiculously over priced knife across the board. I can think of a number of readily available kitchen knives in this range of specs, from respected Japanese makers, that are much cheaper and will presumably outperform this in many respects.
(Edited)
starksyndrome3
5
Mar 21, 2019
pendle616What would you recommend for an all around kitchen knife, but mainly slicing veggies and cutting up fruit? Any brand or model come to mind?
(Edited)
sharpedge
220
SharpEdge
Mar 22, 2019
pendle616Hey @pendle616,
Great to hear you found your go-to knife, it can indeed be a long (and expensive) search to find a perfect knife for ones needs. It's a bit like the search for the holy grail, haha :) I do have to say that it is impossible to find a perfect knife that will suit everyone - Michael Jordan is definitely the GOAT in basketball, but he's not the best in swimming, if you catch my drift. There will always be different knives for different users and their preferences, and I guess the knife market confirms this, having so many makers and different shapes/designs.
I definitely agree that every knife will eventually need to be resharpened, and I hope no one is stating that in their marketing materials... Regarding the ZDP-189 steel. This steel is known for being more difficult to sharpen, however for it's hardness and for edge retention it has, it's easier to sharpen than one would expect, especially when we talk HRC levels or around 66. The important part of making knives of ZDP-189 steel is the heat treatment, and here I have to say that Yoshida Hamono does a great job. They forge and treat the steel themselves with the process they developed, so their ZDP-189 knives sharpen quite nicely and without too much effort. They are also one of the rare blacksmiths that make honyaki ZDP-189 knives, which Im sure you know are a very rare breed (and very expensive too). Of course, knives from high-carbon steels will always be easier to sharpen, but as said before, every knife (and steel) has its advantages and disadvantages. We definitely like powder steels, and we run a lot of knife sharpening services for beginners who own ZDP-189 Bunka knives - they all manage to sharpen it in our 2.5hr class. We also made a video guide for knife sharpening beginners. Which ZDP-189 knife did you own and had a bad experience with sharpening it?
As for a little cherry on the top of the ZDP-189 steel - here's a video of one of our customers who put the Bunka under the microscope. It's not in English, but Im sure you'll understand what's it about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cefKxL7i6TQ
I'd have to disagree regarding the price - a quick google research of ZDP-189 kitchen knives will show that this price is quite a bargain for this expensive steel.
For the grind, spine and thickness photos - yeah, we could add those to the product page, although these details are difficult to photograph, plus there will always be small deviations as these knives are ground and sharpened by hand. Please find attached some photos I made today of one random Bunka I picked from our stock. You can see a spine thickness of around 2.1mm, then a concave long bevel grind, and a short micro flat bevel whetstone sharpening finish. The photo of the tip is also included.
Kavik
5531
Mar 22, 2019
pendle616Considering the steel, the fact that it comes fully sharpened, and has more than just a cheap ho wood handle....if this is "ridiculously overpriced", I'd really like to see where you're finding better for less, given your list of criteria in a like with these specs?
Seriously, not being a smart ass, i want to know what those better and less expensive knives are.
I've seen smaller bunkas in cheaper steel go for way more than this.
And any gyuto with a k-tip always seems to carry some huge premium for no apparent reason.
This one isn't cheap by any means, but I think ridiculously overpriced is a stretch...
My only real complaint after some use : given the price, I think we could've expected to see some easing of the spine and the choil. But that's easy enough to remedy with some sandpaper
Shenanigans
175
Dec 20, 2019
pendle616It's absurd to make any assumptions about a knife that you haven't used extensively. But then again, having "bought and sold 1000's" I'm sure you already know this.
I actually DID buy this knife because it is a unique combo of several qualities: the core steel, forge finish, blade shape and handle type..... And if the claims where true (and they are) of heat treat, grind and performance, then is actually a pretty exceptional value without much direct competition at this price point.
No high-qaulity properly heat-treated steel that I've ever used (and I've used /sharpened many) is "a pain" to sharpen given the proper stones and technique. The steel in this knife is no exception. No, its not as easy as vintage carbon, but even if it where 2x as difficult (which it's not) it has easily 5x the edge retention.
pendle616
51
Dec 21, 2019
ShenanigansIt’s actually not absurd, based entirely on the fact that I have handled and worked with thousands of dollars worth of kitchen knives, in a wide variety of steels, grinds, and styles. Knives made by mass production houses in Japan to single craftsman also based in Japan, to established craftsman in America, and new school makers from all across Europe. Not to mention the wide variety of vintage knives from across the planet. If you have first hand experience with this amount of knives and take the time to study the nuances of the grind, blade shape, spine, and choil you can over time make an assessment from proper pics alone if a knife is worthwhile and how it performs. Based on the pics that Grega supplied above, I would say that this looks to be a decent lazer-ish performer, that drops through food easily, but may experience stickage of product to the blade face. Unless there’s a minor S style grind going on there. The pics aren’t easy to make out in that respect. Even if there was a minor S grind the thin blade stock will make it more likely that product will stick to the blade face in general. Not to mention that more material at the spine lends nice balance, weight, and comfort when gripping the knife in a proper pinch grip.
Regarding steel and ease of sharpening (or lack thereof), heat treat will only get you so far. Yes it can give different characteristics to the steel to a degree, but the constituent mix of the steel will only allow one so much of a spread in terms of performance. ZDP was developed for taking and holding a very fine edge but excels in higher HRC ranges. The higher ranges are not suitable for a daily driver style knife as the edge lends itself to more brittleness and micro-chipping. Which leads to more sharpening. And a higher hardness is going to take more time to establish a burr and remove the burr cleanly, thus creating your new primary bevel. Higher HRC kitchen knives are by and large better suited to roles as slicers as the risk of torquing or twisting the edge on the board is much lower by and large. Never scrape the edge of your kitchen knife across the board to clear product btw- excellent way to create chips on and/or roll your edge.
There are so many better suited steels out there for kitchen knives, and it’s my opinion that ZDP just gives the maker a little something exotic to slap in the description. If this was made from another low corrosion steel like AEB-L, or A2, or any number of carbon steels(white 2, blue 1-2, 52100) I’d be more inclined to give this a go. A lot of the cost here is the price of the steel itself as well as the work it takes to get it to a useable state. Not a cost that is worth it in my opinion.
pendle616
51
Dec 21, 2019
ShenanigansRegarding direct competition, in that respect you’re just flat wrong. There are many reputable makers that produce knives of this quality with the kurouchi style finish and bunka blade shape in Japan alone. The kurouchi finish is also much cheaper and easier to accomplish as it requires far less finish work on the blade face. Another mark against this knife price-wise.
Kavik
5531
Dec 24, 2019
pendle616Sadly, the ease of labor that comes with the kurouchi finish doesn't stop just about every manufacture from charging a premium for it, because they know it's a style many want
Still hoping you might share some of the knives you had in mind when making the below comment?
"I can think of a number of readily available kitchen knives in this range of specs, from respected Japanese makers, that are much cheaper and will presumably outperform this in many respects."
Trending Posts in More Community Picks
Graham88
Completely surprised by the lack of blade diversity here on Drop...
I’ve been a collector of Blades since before my teens, and a retailer coming up on 15… or maybe 20 years. Drop has really been kind of an interesting experience for me, because I do occasionally get to see some unusual tech and sometimes EDC items that otherwise I might not have been aware of. And maybe it’s because I have a deep love of cutlery and bladed weapons, but I find myself trolling through the site looking at it what’s available; and it’s just it’s pretty much the same. And the bladed community here is just always confused me.. every single knife is about the same, they’re almost all drop points and although the handle materials change and brands change.. it’s really just the same knife over and over and over again... occasionally you’ll see a tanto or a slight variant; but rarely… and almost never a serrated blade. And I’m just deeply amazed at this diversion of serrated blades. And I’m just surprised there isn’t more of a request for diversity here.... and I...
Mar 12, 2020
JellyDPhoto
Can we get Sony E-Mount or other mirrorless camera options please..
Would be nice to see some Sony E mount full frame cameras on here. I currently shoot with a A99 and they killed the lense path for better or more option lenses and now is all E-Mount. 🤔
Jan 13, 2020
RayF
There Are Pandas, and Then There Are Pandas.
And this isn't either of them! The Pandas we're talking about here, are watches, not bears. And what got me thinking about them (again) was a link posted this morning by @cm.rook who pointed a few of us to the very attractive (and not terribly priced) Yema "Rallygraph" Panda which, in it's most traditional arrangement, looks like the one on the left, but can also be had in the version on the right: The model on the left is a true Panda, while the model on the right is called a reverse Panda. The reason for that distinction is clear--Panda bears, only come in the first arrangement. Now at this point, everyone should be thinking about the most well-know Panda, The Rolex Panda, which is actually a Daytona, and among Rolex Daytonas, the most famous of which is the Paul Newman Daytona, which was famous first, because it was Paul's, and second because it sold at auction for $17.8 million (US Dollars). The story of that auction is well-known so I'll only...
Nov 8, 2019
Drop Refurbished
Like-new products you can trustDrop Rewards
Get $5 for every 500 points you earn! Learn more
Drop Keyboard Club
Become a member and expand your keycap collectionCollaborate With Us
For Brands & DesignersFollow Drop