SMSL M8 Discussions | Drop | Seriously unless...

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SMSL M8

Jan 13, 2016

It seems like there are no serious reviews on the M8, so I'm going to do a quick impression. I'm a staff writer for CYMBACAVUM.COM, a website dedicated to portable audio, and although my expertise lies in IEMs and portable gears, I've been pretty up to date with headphones and desktop gears as well. The first thing I've noticed immediately, was: hiss hiss hiss. Using WASAPI fixed this issue almost immediately, for some reason. On the other hand, the jitter level is still fairly high, and you do hear residual noise. If you use already use a fairly noisy amp, you might not notice it, but I definitely do hear quite a bit of noise, and I'm guessing it's likely due to power. The USB probably isn't the issue, as I've used a Carat-Topaz with the same port and cable with absolutely no noise. It's most likely the power that's causing the issue. The Topaz has a extremely well designed architecture and remains jitter free, despite the fact that it runs off a "power brick" as well. On the bright side, M8 performs quite well, if you exclude the jitter. It's paired with a desktop version of the O2, which actually pulls off a 124SNR. I'm quite skeptical that M8 actually pulls off the SNR it claims. It's a good DAC, but don't expect a $400 sound from it. For $200, it's pretty damn good. Better than Modi or ODAC in my opinion. Oh, if you were wondering, HD800 is currently hooked up to the M8 and O2. I'm not sure how the jitter would do with more sensitive gear though.

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Jan 13, 2016

kimvictorThanks for your impressions / review. Can't speak to the jitter. Don't have the equipment to measure it. What I can speak to is the absolute quiet the analog output exhibits. There is zero noise - granted my Onkyo Integra Pre-amp does not provide for 125dB S/N. But it is a well-balanced audio path, together with the Integra Power Amp - the one with the giant green VU-meters. While easily reaching more than 100 Watts into 8 Ohm, there is at full pre-amp gain, only very very faint noise at midrange and tweeter. Better not have any sound applied at this time ... it would blow out your ears ! The M8 adds absolutely no noise whatsoever. It is dead-quiet. Left and right channel appear to be swapped - at least when using the optical TOS-Link input. I realized this, playing Only Living Boy in New York, where the base plays from the left, yet when connecting red = right to red and the M8, and white = left, the channels are reversed. Mattered for me because I have DSP corrections that apply to left and right discretely. Obviously when the channels are swapped in the digital domain, the corrections are applied to the wrong channel. This DAC replaced the AKM 4396 DAC that is part of the EMU 0404USB. M8 sounds a little more coherent. Very natural - to my old ears at least - LoL The power supply is indeed a switched walwart type. I measured 8.84 Volts Not sure if the missing 0.16 Volts is the reason why people report better sound when using the P1 linear power supply. I doubt that would be the reason. The + / - 12 volts is generated by a switched circuit inside the M8. The 5 and 3.3 Volts are regulated. No idea what makes the P1 improve the M8 sound. I did however, or had already in anticipation of taking delivery of the M8, built a set of DC filters with coil and two 4700µF caps. Again, just to satisfy my curiosity. While I heard no difference, it clearly was no double-blind switched test - LoL I am just happy to know that the output of the switcher walwart is probably rather clean with this LC filter. The M8 will now happily live in my audio chain. So far so good :-) Cheers

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coolerking

164

Jan 14, 2016

Happy-RRThanks guys for the reviews. Do you have any qualitative impressions of the device? What do you hear in a $400 device as opposed to the M8? Detail, accuracy or is it simply how it pairs in your audio chain? I felt the ODAC's were somewhat lifeless , just slightly muddled(ha, i am not doing a very good job of articulating right now, tired and getting over the flu). I am worried that I just dropped $200 for the same thing. Yuck.

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Jan 14, 2016

coolerkingQuite frankly, nothing too much besides the power issue. Higher end DACs that I've tried sounds a bit smoother, but M8 is pretty on point in terms of clarity and detail. I just wish M8 came with a better power supply. The jitter is annoying as hell. Granted, I suppose you could get a linear 9v power supply, which costs around $100 for cheap ones.

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hciman77

Jan 15, 2016

kimvictorSeriously unless the jitter is totally egregious it will not be remotely audible. In fact I've never seen more than 1 or 2 non HDMI devices that came close to audible jitter. What did you use to measure the jitter and what figures did you get? As for noise mine is utterly silent via the SMSL headphone amp into a range of headphones from 50 to 250 ohms (Sennheiser 580/Beyerdynamic DT880 /AT ATHAD700) , that said I have had QA issues with SMSL in fact two two other SMSL DACs failed, one out of the box (dead USB) and the other developed deadness. This one with the USB drivers installed seems stable so far. Maybe you have a lemon?

Jan 15, 2016

hciman77I am starting to wonder if the term Jitter is used for a symptom other than data stream timing issues. Could it be that kimvictor's M8 is experiencing audio drop-outs due to a bad data source ? How do you have your M8 connected to the audio source ? I myself have not enough experience to recognize jitter-caused audio deterioration. Hence my view towards test equipment

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Jan 15, 2016

Happy-RRIt's out of the same USB port, through the same USB cable, that my Carat Topaz used, and there was no audible jitter on the Topaz. It's not audible when playing, but the jitter is present, although not terribly loud. This sort of jitter was present in Modi too, and it's not too uncommon of a thing in USB or brick powered DACs. I'll try the optical input and see if that changes anything. I didn't measure the jitter levels with anythings, as I don't have the right equipment to measure it. But it's fairly easy to hear it on quieter songs.

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Jan 15, 2016

kimvictorWow ! Thank you kimvictor. That brings great detail to the discussion. You have the practical experience with the various DACs, one that I do not have. If optical is not exhibiting this background noise / raised noise floor, then it might be the a ground loop or polluted DC from the USB source. You say "It's not audible when playing" but also " it's fairly easy to hear it on quieter songs" That is confusing me At any rate - thanks kimvictor for sharing more detail about your experience

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Jan 15, 2016

Happy-RRSorry I might have said it wrong. It's not audible when music is not playing. It's harder to hear on loud music, but becomes more obvious on quite music, like when acoustic guitar solos or certain classical music. The noise could be due to USB, so I'll try optical and report back!

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hciman77

Jan 15, 2016

kimvictorI really do not think what you are experiencing is jitter as such. Jitter is tiny (really tiny - the order of a few picoseconds to a few nanoseconds) timing variations at the DA stage which are normally responsible for either discrete distortion sidebands or increased random noise or in **extreme** cases some spectral spread. The timing variations themselves are wholly inaudible until they reach the millisecond range. The noise measurements on the SMSL are pretty low (if they can be trusted) and it is extremely unusual for jitter-related discrete distortion sidebands to be anywhere even close to -110db on even poor kit and certainly not normally audible. Can you describe this 'Jitter' or better still record a small sample and I can run it through a spectrum analyzer, I'm keen to see this. If you record a fixed tone such as an 11Khz tone that will make analysis easier.
If whatever you are hearing is really that bad I would not hesitate to send it back. For the jitter to be audible it really would have to be basically broken. But you may well be hearing some other unwanted distortion which is also unacceptable. You have not mentioned what filters/settings you are using. I'm assuming you have installed the current drivers,
For reference here is a link to some samples with deliberately added jitter, Worth having a listen to
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,107570.msg905631.html#msg905631

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Jan 24, 2016

hciman77I don't think it's jitter anymore... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B63T3LQHmDVmaE5lMWFLNmYzMjg/view?usp=sharing Can anyone tell me what this is? This should be a rather silent thumping(It's recording of what plays through my headphones with Speak to Me by Pink Floyd). Sorry the recording's not loud. You might have to turn your volume up a bit to hear it, but it sounds like interference, but I have no clue. Any help is welcomed. Thanks.

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Jan 26, 2016

kimvictorI'll check it out real quick, kimvictor

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Jan 26, 2016

kimvictorOK - played it from my original CD. None of the weird chirping noises that lead the very deep "thump - thump". If I turn the volume up very loud and keep my ear close the speaker, I can hear a very faint hum. That gets masked by the music very quickly. I believe it is on the master they used for this version of the CD. The sound is totally clean, while the very low volume intro is playing. You said this weir noise is not present if you use a different DAC. Have a you had a chance to test the optical / coaxial ? My setup is optical - currently.

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Jan 27, 2016

Happy-RRJust tried optical! It does the same thing.... Maybe I got a lemon? I wonder how warranty works on this product.

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Jan 28, 2016

kimvictorSo to recap: - Optical and USB exhibit the same leading very-low level squeaking sounds while a very low frequency musical "thump" plays - I did heard it in your sample - using a different DAC does not show this symptom => rules out the source file has this distortion present I refer to others on here, who may have more experience troubleshooting this type of issue. Sorry I can't help any further ...

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