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coffeeshopcoder
281
Oct 11, 2018
Can someone help me here ? Is this or the MassDrop O2+SDAC better ? I plan to pair it with a HE4XX and (possibly) a Messe 99
benchmark345
8
Oct 11, 2018
coffeeshopcoderO2+SDAC would be overkill for either of those headphones. This will be just fine :)
Eli35
653
Oct 11, 2018
coffeeshopcoderBoth should be good, I'd say stick to the O2+SDAC because it's a staple DAC/amp combo and you can't really go wrong with it. If you're curious about tubes, I suggest you look at the LD I+. I own it, and with upgraded tubes and opamp it makes the HE4XX sound A-MA-ZING.
coffeeshopcoder
281
Oct 12, 2018
Eli35So I'm a newbie, what does replacing the tubes and opamp entail ? Tubes I can imagine, but how do you replace the opamo, and what replacement components did you use ?
Lociinthesky
26
Oct 12, 2018
coffeeshopcoderHey coder, listen to my story -
I just bought the O2+SDAC for my HD6xx, HD58x, HD600s (the only 3 headphones I own - the former two are new). I opened it 2 days ago. If you buy this T1 amp/DAC, and it is not the sound you are looking for, maybe you'll opt to trade with me. I am open to it. If I had read more beforehand, (and if this deal were available 2 weeks ago) I would have gone with a tube. I think the warmer sound lends itself more to a "set it and forget it" style of code-all-day listening. That's the purpose I bought the HD6xx for, and furthering that end is the purpose I bought the O2 for. IMO, the O2+SDAC _really_ shines with my HD600s, which have a forward, clear, sound that is detailed and in-your-face, demanding attention. From now on I will only use that for special occasions, like the first listen through a new album from a favorite musician. In short, The AMP/DAC combo is more dedicated to detail than mellifluousness. I have a fiio E17 AMP/DAC which doesn't take things as far as the O2, but it does seem to just make everything "prettier" though not necessarily more clear. That is what I want for my HD 6xx, and I think that this tube amp is the better bet for me, having heard the O2.
Eli35
653
Oct 15, 2018
LociintheskyIf you wanna get the "tubey-ness" to the next level, and since you own three "brothers" of the senn HD600-family, you should definitely try a OTL, something like a DarkVoice 336SE or a Little Dot MKII/MKIII. I own the DV, plus some NOS tubes, and it sounds (sounded, when it was alive) gorgeous with my HD6xx: super warm, relaxed, deep & tight bass (it adds a nice bump in the mid-bass), just the right focus on the mids, airy but not too bright treble. It lacks the detail you'll get from a solid state amp, but you won't miss it in a nice long, relaxed laid-back listening session. I used to love listening to my HD6XX from the DV while coding, in the afternoon, alone in the office; it felt so nice hours passed like minutes.
Eli35
653
Oct 15, 2018
coffeeshopcoderReplacing tubes & opamp on the LD I+ is quite easy:
- turn off the amp - carefully unplug everything (warning: tubes are hot!) - let it cool down for a few minutes (preferably a minimum of 10 min) - take out tubes, careful to not bend any pins or apply too much pressure on the glass - open bottom plate (unscrew both front & rear two bottom screws, and the plate will come out; I let mine open all the time) - if you feel like replacing the opamp, now is the time: take out the opamp you got installed, careful to not bend any pins, and install the new one, respecting the pin layout (there's always a dot or half dot in any chip, it shows how to align it with the socket, basic stuff). Note: you can use any double op amp on the LD, or even two singles using a double-to-single adapter; there's lots of models sold on ebay for $1-3, let me know if you need some suggestions. - adjust jumpers & switches for the tube family you're gonna use (double check if needed) - close bottom plate (or just lay the whole amp down on the table, with the bottom plate in place) - install new tubes - plug everything back - quick check everything's ok (checklist: switches/jumpers, opamp, tubes, power, RCAs, headphones) - turn on the amp - let it warm up for a minute - enjoy the new sound
coffeeshopcoder
281
Oct 16, 2018
Eli35Thanks a bunch ! that was really helpful !
Lociinthesky
26
Oct 19, 2018
Eli35Alright Eli, I got in on the DV drop. I want to replace the stock tubes because apparently they aren't so good. My budget is: broke. What is/are the cheapest tubes worth purchasing, in your opinion? Of the 2 stock tubes, is one better than the other? (It'd be nice to just buy one tube to start). My other reason for buying a tube just because one of the stock tubes (which?) is known to hiss, and that would drive me crazy if it didn't go away, so I need the backup. Thanks for the help, Eli!
Lociinthesky
26
Oct 19, 2018
LociintheskyIf it makes any difference at all, the number 1 thing I would want to improve is bass, followed by soundstage, and I am a bit more sensitive to shoutiness than other people I think. Minimizing that is the main reason I'm interested in the tube, I think. I like when I can turn my music up loud because there isn't a snare drum slapping me in the brain.
Eli35
653
Oct 23, 2018
LociintheskyHey, since your budget is that tight, I'd suggest you simply don't replace tubes now. Stocks ain't that bad, not like the 6J1 included with the LD, you'll get something close to the "full experience" without having to spend a single extra $. And you can always upgrade your tubes later, when you have the money, and also appreciate the difference in sound compared to stock.
From the two tubes (driver in front, the small one; power behind, the big one) the driver tube is supposed to add more coloration to the sound, working as a filter, while the power tube takes care of the amplification itself. Better/different driver tubes will alter the sound more than better/different power tubes, while better power tubes will (usually) reveal more details of the driver tube and "tighten" the sound, reducing undesired distortions.
Lociinthesky
26
Nov 1, 2018
Eli35That's not a bad idea. I want to have it to be sure that I don't wait 3 days to get that hiss out, and still not be able to get it out, then have to order a replacement tube then. But maybe I should just take my chances for now. Thanks
Eli35
653
Nov 6, 2018
LociintheskyMost (if not all) stock tubes have some hiss, according to my readings and my experience (a friend of mine also bough a DV, and his had it too). My stock driver tube lost almost every hiss just by burn in, I read somewhere on the internet a easy way to do so:
  • with the amp cooled down, unplug everything and wait for a few minutes
  • remove power tube
  • plug power and nothing else (no RCA input, no headphones, just power)
  • turn on the amp
  • let the driver tube burn for some hours (some people leave their DV on for days like that, I turned it on every 8h or so and let it cool for the rest of the day because don't wanna risk starting a fire on a empty office).
  • turn off the amp
  • unplug power and wait for a few minutes
  • insert power tube
  • plug everything back
  • turn on
  • wait for a minute or so, and try to listen if there's any hiss (mine went ALMOST silent after a week of 6-8h daily burn in)
However, DV stock hiss it's not terrible, just barely noticeable on the HD6XX/HD650 and only with no background sound at all. And it's just a low frequency tone that doesn't bothers me nearly as much as those white-ish noise hisses that some cheap solid state amps have (or try to avoid with, again, cheap cutoff circuits that sometimes won't trigger and you can easily tell whether it's on or off... super annoying). As you can see, I'm pretty sensitive to background hiss as well, and I can tell you the DV hiss isn't too annoying for me. And it noticeable improved after burning in the driver tube, so no big deal.
Paraglider
67
Dec 13, 2018
Eli35What happened to your DV? I might be willing to offer you a trade in program for one of my Upgraded tubes, 2 mods installed, tested and verified no hum and Excellent sound with my Senn 6XX's DarkVoice 336SE's. Ship me your dead one and make a Paypal payment for the $199 and I'll ship you 1 of my upgraded ones, satisfaction guaranteed. Interested? Email me at paul1453@gmail.com if you are!
Eli35
653
Dec 14, 2018
ParagliderThanks for the offer, but I can't afford to spend $200 right now, and since I already got my DV (broken, but still) I'd rather try to get it fixed than buy a new one.
Paraglider
67
Dec 14, 2018
Eli35I'm not sure where you live but it is hard to find someone locally capable and willing to fix it for less than the cost of a new one. It is heavy too so shipping it back and forth for repairs also tends to make buying new a better option. It really isn't worth anything to you sitting on your shelf broken now is it? You think about it. I've got one ready to go with upgraded NOS GE tubes with my Power supply choke filter mod and 6SN7 biasing mod already installed and sounding GREAT! No hiss or hum at all on mine. Want to make a trade-in for an upgraded and modded new one price counter-offer? I truly believe the upgraded tubes and installed and tested mods adds $100 of value to the stock DarkVoice, IMHO. 8^)
Eli35
653
Dec 17, 2018
ParagliderI'll think about it, but I already have some upgraded NOS tubes which, by the way, have no hum at all.
Paraglider
67
Dec 17, 2018
Eli35Usually the best way to find a tube is to try it in your gear. They are all unique, even from the same manufacturer in the same lot #. Most tubes should not have any hum at all. Looking for DV or T1 replacements? DV replace the 6SN7 1st until you are happy, you could even try 6SL7s with more gain and less heater current without worry. The sound is always subjective! ;^)
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