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kenwstr
121
Dec 18, 2016
Yep, wow & flutter 0.2%, any half decent vintage TT would be better than 0.05% S/N only 60 dB unweighted. Both are below par. Good inexpensive vintage gear would easily outperform this, even my Realistic LAB 440 would.
Dirkjr
17
Jan 17, 2017
kenwstrYeah that's very true. The only caveat I would add to that is that the vintage ones are now quite old and will not be anywhere near those specs before a good refurb. This is a solid option for someone who doesn't want to deal with a restoration job but also wants better than those cancerous cheap turntables that pop up everywhere
Surfinsam
50
Jan 19, 2017
kenwstrsince you seem to know what you're talking about would an atlp120 be a good pick instead then?
kenwstr
121
Jan 19, 2017
SurfinsamThe atlp120 has W&F <0.2% and S/N 50dB which are are similar to the poor specs I quoted above. The thing is that most TTs that output digitally have specs like this. I suppose it's convenient but if you are truly an audiophile (I don't regard myself that way) then the best affordable option seems to be to get a top of the line 80s-90 analogue TT (refurbish) and add good ADC with appropriate impedance for the cartridge and record in an uncompressed losless format at HRA bitrate and depth and do some judicious noise and click removal. Analogue TTs are pretty simple devices and refurbishing them is not very complex difficult or time consuming unless they are extremely worn and broken. If you find one that has little wear, it may be as simple as installing a new belt (unless DD), cleaning, lube and applying an electrical conditioner such as Deoxit to all electrical connections , trimmers and control pots and switches. You know normal regular HiFi equipment maintenance, additional cost under $30. Oh get a new quality Stylus for more money of course.
I suppose I should give some context as that is usually lacking. Most people are used to MP3 audio as that is what you get with TV broadcast and for many, that is as good as it gets for them. If you and your audio equipment are in this category, then you have no way to appreciate the difference between analogue and digital audio. So there would be no point getting high end equipment.
The next level up is CD if you can hear the difference between MP3 and CD then you have pretty reasonable equipment and are used to critical listening and may be in a position to appreciate what vinyl can provide over a CD recording. Recording analogue to CD quality requires some kind of audio compression. This is where peak signal levels are compressed to fit within the available bit depth without clipping while maintaining audibility of quietest parts of a track such as is typical of the wider dB range encountered in many classical recordings. OK, you may not be interested in classical and the music you record may lack dB range. If this is the case, you can get away with just attenuating the signal strength to avoid digital clipping but tracks with quiet bits are likely to lose expression, which is why compression is generally used in professional CD recordings.
High Resolution Audio (HRA) is above CD quality in both bit depth and bit rate. This is often used for mastering. HRA bit depth offers a wider dynamic (dB) range so we can accurately record (without compression) the full dynamic expression available from an analogue source such as an LP. The increased bit rate above CD quality is not so much to more accurately map the highest frequency wave forms (which it does) but it's main benefit is matching the human audio nerves systems response rate. Now we are in the realm of digitally recording and reproducing the rather esoteric audio experience previously only available from analogue sources such as vinyl. It is difficult to define just what it is about vinyl but for me, it is a richer, more engaging listening experience than CD, somehow more natural, more personal and emotionally expressive, provided the equipment is up to it and the media is in extremely good and clean condition. So then, my comments are definitely in the context of this latter category. The only reason I started this is because it's the "Audiophile" community but much of the gear offered here does not fall within my understanding of what that means. So I hope these comments will be taken in the intended context and I hope they will assist in peoples understanding and decisions. The specific products referred to have a place within the broad levels I outlined and if that matches where your at or want to be, then that's fine for you.
Ken
rapoon
42
Jan 22, 2017
kenwstrAppreciate the comprehensive response, ken, but it's a bit misleading.
A properly mastered CD has a wider dynamic range than it's corresponding LP, and more importantly, the range is consistent (there are exceptions, notably w/ Classical music).
Wave forms matching the human audio nerve system response rate? ok.... I suppose it's nice if my TT can output a waveform that's imperceptible to humans, but it's the least of my concerns if artifact(s) exist and are apparent on any TT that exists or has ever existed. Interesting and selective omission of mentioning floor noise, ken, because regardless of how much you may have paid for your TT and/or stylus, there's floor noise. LP is not superior to CD; they're different.
kenwstr
121
Jan 22, 2017
rapoonI didn't intend to mislead, you must read different information to me.
The omission of LP noise floor wasn't deliberate. I simply didn't consider including it, not sure why. You are correct the noise floor of an LP is higher but still pretty acceptable if it plays clean and the TT setup is good. What's better or worse is I guess in the ears of the listener. If I close my eyes and it's like there is a real person singing without reinforcement in my lounge room, to me that is the ideal but it's not something I get from any CD so far. For me some slight noise floor is an acceptable trade off but HRA BD will give me this without the trade off. I accept that many people never listen to that kind of thing though.
Most comments on LP noise floor seem to be based on experience with LPs dropped on and kicked around the floor, concrete path or back yard etc and then played on some cheap rubbish unearthed TT with a worn stylus. Sigh........
rapoon
42
Jan 23, 2017
kenwstrKen, I re-read my response and realize it may come across as curt or abrasive; apologies.
Years ago I read a humorous and succinct "LP vs CD source" summary on Audiogon: Floor Noise or Tube Humming? The one you find more bearable is the better source. =D
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