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kunseok
81
Feb 10, 2015
wtf? who would buy this? I imagine this would wear down your teeth
Hardness (mohs): tooth enamel = 5 titanium (6al 4av) = >7 Results of the hardness measurements showed that titanium oxides have a Mohs scratch hardness of 7 to 7 /2. A Mohs hardness of 7 to 7 /2 indicates that titanium oxide slightly harder than the mineral quartz. However, it is softer than aluminum oxide (Mohs hardness of about 8 /2). http://www.google.com/patents/US3408236
this seems like a bad product that should not be put on massdrop (correct me if im wrong). whoever made this a drop made a poor decision.
brillopad
15
Feb 10, 2015
kunseokToothpicks are for picking between your teeth. Not dragging across the surface. They use metal tools at the dentist when they clean your teeth right? Just don't stab yourself or try and carve your initials.
kunseok
81
Feb 10, 2015
brillopadyou made two points which i will address:
1) Toothpicks are for picking between your teeth. Not dragging across the surface: the metal still comes into contact with the teeth. the sides of the rod will come into contact with the edges of the teeth when you jam the point in between the teeth
2) They use metal tools at the dentist when they clean your teeth right?: yes they use metal tools at the dentist. they also ask you not to eat anything for a while after a cleaning because the enamel is scraped off and damaged after a thorough cleaning... this kinda proves my point.
brillopad
15
Feb 10, 2015
kunseok1) Again, as long as you don't jam it in and then use it like a crow bar to chip or crack your tooth, you should be fine. I understand the risk is there to damage your teeth, but it's also there when you eat off metal utensils. Exercise common sense and be gentle. You'll do damage to your mouth with any kind of toothpick if you're being that aggressive.
2) This is a myth. You don't eat after the dentist because of the fluoride treatment, not because they scrape off your enamel. Which they don't do. They go to school to learn how to remove plaque and calculus without scraping off your enamel.
http://victory-dental.blogspot.com/2014/10/does-dental-cleaning-remove-enamel.html http://www.southeastfamilydental.com/blog/long-wait-eat-getting-teeth-cleaned/
Henry.V
41
Feb 10, 2015
brillopad
search
kunseok
81
Feb 11, 2015
brillopadim too lazy to do the followup research and find scientific papers on dental cleanings and enamel damage. you could be right or you could be wrong. however, the links you posted from a dentist blogger and a dentists website arent exactly credulous.
i wouldnt buy this and think this was a bad massdrop drop
darkfeline
92
Feb 11, 2015
brillopadNot a metallurgist nor a dentist, but stainless steel and titanium are kinda not the same thing.
pocketsun
26
Feb 11, 2015
darkfelineI don't see them mentioning stainless steel? What are you referring to?
Edit: nevermind, didn't see what you replied to. Ignore me.
NewAce
50
Feb 16, 2015
brillopadExcept we don't jam our utensils between our teeth, unless by accident. The bigger risk is to any exposed dentin (which, if you had any, would naturally be situated at the gum line), which a fair chunk of population has. Dentin is much softer than enamel, much less titanium, and is consequently more prone to developing cavities. I'm not a dentist, but I would imagine, if you scratch up your dentin with a piece of titanium, that damaged area may be more susceptible to developing cavities. In fact, I just did some reading on a research article that found dental probing can scratch enamels, which can trigger carious lesion to turn into cavity. I just think this product is an all-around bad idea and Massdrop should be more selective in what it puts on drops, especially if they're going to make health claims on the product ("lets you stay on top of your dental hygiene"). I used to do medical marketing for a major toothpaste brand, and I don't think this shit would fly in any environment where there are standards around factual accuracy and product safety.
NewAce
50
Feb 16, 2015
kunseokYou're right. And if FDA decided to do something about it, this company could get in trouble.
beesings
83
Feb 16, 2015
NewAceThanks for this. Boycott titanium toothpicks! I'm down for some luxury items (in the keyboard and clothing realm mostly), but this wanton abuse of the periodic table for 'exotic' bling has gone too far, and Mass Drop just keeps perpetuating the marketing of douchebag accessory items like this, and many others.
GonzoTGreat
756
Feb 17, 2015
beesingsAnd yet, it's selling. Well. If folks are buying, I have no issue with Massdrop selling. I still don't "get it" but there have been almost 50 folks who feel it's worth their while. With 4 days to go, no less.
If I need a pick, I prefer the wooden variety. For me, the pliability of the pick outweighs the risk of splinters. ;-)
Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but could someone who has actually tried one of these (and the wooden variety) post something to explain the popularity?
My only requirements are: you've actually tried this. You still have the teeth in question. In your mouth.
My question is not meant to needle the devotees but, rather, to understand the point. ;-)
My last 2 paragraphs are a bit tongue-(or toothpick)-in-cheek, so to speak. But really, could someone who has used both comment about what makes these so great that nearly 50 people have joined with over a half-week remaining?
Cheers.
Edited for typos, grammar and clarity.
kunseok
81
Feb 17, 2015
NewAceGood!
Did they bring this to the president's attention? or were they able to get this one done without escalating it to him?
GonzoTGreatNow there's a great post!
I've held off on commenting here or defending my little Ti Toothpick because I don't want to participate in a debate. You all are free to speak your minds on this and all the other products here on Massdrop. There are always people who are going to whine, complain, and put down products just as there are those who are going to express their appreciation.
I actually don't see much appreciation, however there have been several dozen toothpicks ordered here so far.
My little shop in Carmel Valley, CA specializes in designing, manufacturing, and marketing unique gadgets. The Titanium Toothpick certainly is not unique, as there are many makers selling these in the EDC Forum as well as the USN forum and probably many other forums as well. I only started making these at the request of a customer.
They are handmade and I have sold quite a few at nearly double the Massdrop price. They ship all over the world, with a fair number going to Australia and Germany.
Why are they being purchased, I really do not know. Maybe because they are made in the USA. (Some people still do like American made products). Maybe because Frank at Sunshine Products makes them by hand. I don't know. Possibly because they are Titanium, and I'm here to tell you, there are folks that buy almost anything that is made of Titanium!
I'm fairly certain that the users have common sense, and do not intend to harm themselves or others. I'd guess that those who sell knives assume the same thing.
So go ahead, trash my little toothpick and make up your silly stories. I honestly think you are driving up sales!
All the best, Frank
NewAce
50
Feb 17, 2015
Sunshine_USAFrank, what bothers me isn't that you make expensive toothpick. That's totally fine, I buy lots of expensive things where cheap alternatives could easily do. That much is a matter of taste. You don't have to defend that.
What bothers me is that what essentially amounts to a titanium pin is being marketed as a toothpick. As to why that should bother anyone who knows even a little bit about proper dental care, read my comments above. But tl;dr - titanium is harder than teeth, and scratches the shit out of it; this is bad for you. This, you have to defend, yet you didn't have a single point addressing it.
As for your comment: "I'm fairly certain that the users have common sense, and do not intend to harm themselves or others. I'd guess that those who sell knives assume the same thing."
Except that knives aren't meant to be jammed between your teeth, and common sense doesn't include a lot of important knowledge about dental care, or else a lot more people would be flossing every day and no adult would use fluoride-free toothpaste. It's common sense that you don't stab yourself with a knife, but that enamel and dentin are (much) softer than the particular alloy of titanium used to make your toothpicks isn't common sense. That's research, and if those who bought your product did it, they wouldn't be your customers.
Sure it sells, so do coloured contact lenses and cigarettes. I'm just calling a terrible product terrible, nothing more.
"Why are they being purchased, I really do not know."
You can't even articulate the value proposition for it! I can't believe I'm hearing this from the guy who makes the product! And yet you have the audacity to show up and throw in your two cents without actually addressing any of the health concerns, for whatever little that proved to be worth.
As for Massdrop, I'm disappointed that they would host a drop for such a terrible product of questionable utility.
NewAce
50
Feb 17, 2015
kunseokI don't want to actually report the guy to the FDA, I just want to make sure he knows the harm his product could cause. I love machined metal goods, but this toothpick is no good.
GonzoTGreat
756
Feb 18, 2015
Sunshine_USA[UPDATE: Please feel free to skip this post. The following post is meant as a specific reply to a specific post and does not add to the overall conversation. The concerns mentioned in this post have been addressed satisfactorily. - Gonzo]
@Sunshine_USA,
As it is often difficult to determine the tone of a post on a forum such as this, I will take your comment of "Now there's a great post!" as genuine appreciation for the post.
My intent in my two posts about this product have been, in order:
1. I wanted to express my appreciation for the entertaining dialogue.
2. I am genuinely curious about the appeal and popularity of the item. While it's not for me, I am genuinely curious about why others choose the product. As my quips toward the end of my post could have been interpreted as a bit snarky, I deliberately qualified them as "tongue-in-cheek". I apologize if my post offended you. That was certainly not the intent.
You say that these toothpicks are good sellers at twice the price being offered. That's great. However, you also say, "Why are they being purchased, I really don't know."
So my question stands. Could someone who has used this product comment about its popularity and utility? All silly comments aside, I'm genuinely curious.
Although I have been entertained by the lively discussion, I have no issue with you or anyone else making and selling this item. I have no issue with Massdrop offering this item. I don't know much about dentists' tools or how titanium may or may not interact with teeth. I make no claim about any of these things. Some of my comments were intended as good-natured puns, I'm sorry if they were interpreted otherwise. If you would like, I can delete them in my post.
Just as I take your "great post!" comment at face value, I must take issue with your comment that I was trashing your little toothpick and making up silly stories. I believe I have not done either of these things.
Finally, my intention was neither to persuade nor dissuade anyone from purchasing your item. It was a simple question with a couple of specifically qualified puns.
I look forward to someone who has first-hand-to-mouth experience answering the genuine and sincere question I have posted twice ... well, thrice if you include this post. That's all.
Cheers.
Edited for typos, grammar and clarity.
GonzoTGreat@GonzoTGreat
I should clarify, so as to avoid confusion. I did appreciate your post. You were straightforward and showed an honest interest, which I appreciate. You did not trash my toothpick, nor did you tell any stories. This comment was directed towards others.
As far as what people buy these for, it would be conjecture on my part to make that statement. It may be to add to a titanium collection, to use as a toothpick, or maybe as an horse-devours tool. I'm sure there must be other uses.
Thanks for your interest and comments.
GonzoTGreat
756
Feb 18, 2015
Sunshine_USA@Sunshine_USA,
Thank you for the clarification. I hadn't even thought of the "food presentation" angle. Still outside of my price range, but for those looking for a gift idea for the "deli tray that has everything" (or sandwich or martini or whatever), this might fit the bill.
Again, I appreciate the clarification of your post and your thoughts about possible uses for the item.
Cheers.
kunseok
81
Feb 19, 2015
hydzwithwolves
0
Aug 17, 2019
kunseokI think they may be made to scrape the plaque off of titanium rods. I haven't found a toothbrush that can fit between the rods so the plaque builds up eventually. I've been warned not to use anything but my fingernails to scrape the rods myself. I haven't seen the product, so I may be completely wrong. But if that what it's for, I would LOVE to buy one, of it's affordable. It would save me money in the long run. Those office visits for cleaning aren't cheap. At least not those of us who live on a fixed income.
KazVorpal
0
Aug 6, 2020
brillopadNo, there is no danger to your teeth from metal utensils because they are softer than enamel. They cannot scratch your teeth in simple use, they're not hard enough. Titanium, on the other hand, is HARDER than enamel. It always scratches your teeth, the same way a diamond abraided against glass always leaves a scratch. The scratch on your tooth is just too fine for you to see, but scratches accumulate. On the mohs scale of hardness, tooth enamel rates a 5. Common steel is 4.5, slightly softer than enamel. Stainless steel is a 5, same hardness as enamel. Like hardness doesn't usually scratch. Titanium is a 6. Harder than enamel. Scratches your tooth. The titanium nitride used in jewelry and probably the toothpick is a 9. Almost as hard as a diamond at 10. Much harder than tooth enamel, and therefore almost certain to scratch it when sharp. So no, you really should avoid using a titanium toothpick on your actual teeth whenever an alternative exists. You are scratching up your tooth enamel.
(Edited)