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Onionman
109
Feb 8, 2016
I was really excited about this until I saw that the manufacturer was Reate knives and made in China. While I have no doubt that it is made with high quality materials and has good quality control, the fact is that you can get a USA made knife with the same materials and QC for the same price. The only thing holding me back is the idea that we are being groomed by the industry to pay more and more for Chinese made knives. The fact is, a company may pay a few dollars more for the materials and certain level of craftmanship, but that only raises the price by a few dollars and not the hundreds of dollars that Reate and Kizer are trying to get us to pay. The industry is slowly trying to up the price for these knives so that eventually we will be paying $300-$400+ for a Chinese knife that should be selling, at most, for $100-$150.
CentralPA
1
Feb 9, 2016
OnionmanThere is a good review of this knife on YouTube by Jim Skelton. It could change your mind.
bin31z
101
Feb 10, 2016
OnionmanYeah, freaking ridic to have a made in China knife for 400 bucks. Just get a sebenza, which is already overpriced in my book partially because of the made in usa allure. How are you going to sell a made in china knife for 400 bucks??
Jasril
227
Feb 10, 2016
bin31zAll these poeple are saying that the knife shouldn't be so expensive because it is made in china, but if you really break it down, what you mean to say is "a knife shouldn't cost $300-400 if it was made in a chinese sweatshop" which it wasn't... You can't honestly say that there are no skilled craftsmen in china, because country of origin has no bearing on quality... China has just earned a reputation for having a bunch of knock-off producing sweatshops (and rightly so, i get it) but that is not Reate...
Also the knife had about $100 tacked onto it because of the Todd Begg name (based on Reates self produced knives)
bin31z
101
Feb 10, 2016
JasrilYes, but they don't get US wages or benefits. Sorry but that's the truth. The cost of producing this knife in China as opposed to USA is 50% less at the very least. Instead of passing the savings on, they'd rather just make more profit. Also, buying made in US is not a bash against made in other countries, but if we all buy goods made in other countries, how do we intend to keep our workers employed??
willgreenzilla
91
Feb 11, 2016
bin31zTell them to get better skills? :)
willgreenzilla
91
Feb 11, 2016
OnionmanYou obviously have no idea what you are talking about, lol. This same knife, if made in the "USA", would run easily over $600. Reate makes some of the best knives for the money. They use top notch materials, display extremely high quality control with fantastic fit and finish, and have been partnering with a number of great knife designers.
Jasril
227
Feb 12, 2016
bin31zif you're saying that the reason you shouldn't buy it is because the workers don't get paid enough (for argument's sake lets assume they don't, because you and i don't know the wages or benefits of the Reate employees), then that stance is totally legitimate, but it means you have to look into how each and every company treats their employees, checking into discriminatory behaviors, pay scales, etc. (which, lets face it, is way too much work and no one will really research every company they buy from... ever shop at walmart?)
if on the other hand you're saying we should support american made products, then that is also an admirable stance to take... but one that is poorly executed if you only mean in the knife arena, and nearly impossible if you aren't getting custom made items in every other arena, which is of course insanely expensive.
basically, i don't think it is prudent to choose which knife to buy based on socio-economic beliefs, but rather... is it a good knife for the value? does it have that "i gotta have it" appeal? does it bring that pride of ownership from owning a well designed product? (for some) does it retain its value for years to come?
and i believe reate's knives fit a lot of those points...
but, if country of origin is all that concerns you, then there are plenty of well made knives around the US as well, but that doesn't mean anything is wrong with Reate
edit: forgot to mention, if you want this same knife NOT made in china, Todd Begg Knives definitely makes some here 100% in the US https://www.tricitycustomknives.com/product/tdd-begg-full-custom-kwaiken-flipper/ if for some reason this link stops working in the future or the price is taken down, it's $6450.00
Onionman
109
Feb 12, 2016
JasrilI am not saying it was made in a sweatshop and again I have no doubt it is a high quality production knife. My fear is that we are being groomed to accept Chinese knives at the same price of an American made knife, when it is a known fact that even high quality production knives from China have a wholesale cost of much less than American made. That should be reflected in the price that's all. Spyderco can make a high quality PM2 in its Colorado factory for about $120 and Benchmade can do the same. Now I don't know what the wholesale price is of this knife but I am sure is it less than $100 (probably closer to $50) and even with the royalties that should rightly go to Begg you could could still sell this knife at a good profit in the $150-$200 range. The "discounted" price of $400 is a good price for an American made knife, but in this case you are paying for a higher profit margin and that's about it. And if you don't believe me just take a look at American made Chris Reeve knives and then tell me this knife is not overpriced.
Onionman
109
Feb 12, 2016
willgreenzillaChris Reeve Sebenza 25. Made in USA. Cost $445. Best quality of a production knife in the business. If this knife was handmade by Begg you would be right. But its a high quality production knife made in a country where items can be made much cheaper. So I can say the same to you since it appears you don't know what you are talking about.
Jasril
227
Feb 12, 2016
OnionmanBut the thing is, the sebenza's base model price being compared to this isn't actually a fair comparison...
Think how much more a sebenza would cost if it had the same features as this: - IKBS pivot - 3d machined pocket clip - locking bar over-travel stop - machined, textured, and contoured handle - a back spacer instead of stand-offs
It would quickly be in the $600+ range, which is how much i believe a sebenza is with inlays or graphics
So i believe you are getting more from a Reate knife for the same price (this coming from someone who gladly bought a Sebenza 25 tanto and still owns it to this day)
Onionman
109
Feb 12, 2016
JasrilAre you saying that a IKBS pivot, machined pocket clip, locking bar etc really costs hundreds of dollars more to manufacture? And Chris Reeve knives use inferior bushings, clips, etc.? Chris Reeve large CF and titanium Sebenza for $485 has crappy materials? I doubt it. The fact is that the difference with manufacturing in China vs. USA is still really high, about 50 to 60% difference which I would like reflected in the price. All I know is that I bought a beautiful Chinese made, titanium handled knife (with contours and etchings) with Japanese VG 10 damascus and high quality bushings brand new at a gun show last month for $100. Spoke to the owner who designed the knife, an American, who made it clear that he was doing quite well selling these high quality knives for $120 online and $100 at the shows. Sorry, but unless reate is doubling the pay of its Chinese workers and overpaying for materials, this is overpriced. I would bet that in reality, the owner of reate knives when creating the company said to himself that if he could convince Americans to buy high quality, but much cheaper knives made in China for American prices he could make huge returns on his investment. But if Reate can sell them and you buy them, I think that's great. All power to them. I just have a personal issue where I don't want the knife carrying community to be bamboozled to the point where a $50 production knife that would normally sell for $150 under American pricing principles now costs $500 for no other reason than to fill someone's pockets with much more money.
Jasril
227
Feb 12, 2016
Onionmanyes, the difference between a high precision flat handled bushing based knife with a spring clip and a high precision contoured, textured handled knife with ikbs, and a 3D sculpted clip is indeed ~$200... heck a 3D sculpted clip alone is normally $100+ added to the cost of any knife due to it using a significantly larger amount of machine time than a spring clip
i'd be interested in knowing of this other knife designer myself, high quality knives are always in demand at my house~ got a link or name/brand?
Onionman
109
Feb 12, 2016
JasrilIf you really think it costs that much extra to do something like that in a Chinese manufacturing plant, then I am sure there are several people out there looking to sell you a bridge or two. In any event, the manufacturer of the knife was SB Knives. I found one of their knives on ebay , but it is not the one I bought. Search for SBK Kimono Damascus on ebay and you will find it.
Jasril
227
Feb 12, 2016
Onionmani think the reason he is doing so well for himself @$100-120 is that the knife is some mass produced sweatshop style knife with plastic scales and steel liners, not to mention the knife only shows up on google searches on ebay and some other russian auction site with the exact same picture set, meaning this is a no brand knife... i don't see anything saying those are titanium (ebay says G10 scales over steel liners).... not to mention the hardware is a direct knock off of custom knife factory's ( the pivot and thumb stud).... this level of knife is vastly different from what you are describing you got at some show...
based on what you're saying where we aren't talking about quality, but the price difference to produce and how much it is sold for... you should have gotten that knife for $40-50 because it couldn't have cost them much more than $10-20 to produce.... and at rate, i am sure there are several people out there looking to sell you a rolexx for $100 and oakeys for $50
Onionman
109
Feb 12, 2016
JasrilI said this was not the same knife I bought. Never said this one was titanium. I also did not say this was the same quality either. Don't worry Jasril, you make a great case for Reate and I am sure you will get employee of the month. I am sure you have not collected knives for very long since you are buying into this grooming process way too easily. I just know that I look at knives both in person and online all the time and know that even great quality knives made in China can be made much cheaper unless they contain market controlled commodities such as gold, silver, platinum, etc. It is just a fact. Just look at Kizer. They have some very intricately designed handles for their knives and thy are selling for $150 to $200. Don't tell me that this one is that much better because its just not.
Jasril
227
Feb 12, 2016
Onionmanlooked at kizer before, but never got one... do they actually have any comparable models with almost the same feature set so we can at least come close to doing an apples to apples comparison?
i see you constantly making reference to other knives, but i have yet to hear you talk about the quality of the knife you are saying should cost less... have you actually handled it? what would it take for a chinese knife to be worth $400 in your opinion? (besides $400 worth of gold inlayed into it)
Onionman
109
Feb 12, 2016
JasrilYou took my gold answer! But seriously, the most I have ever paid for a Chinese knife is $100. How much would I pay for this knife? Not sure since I have not had a chance to handle it but I could see myself going into the low $200 range for something I considered good quality from China. And just so you know, if this was made in USA, Japan, Germany or Italy I would have bought already for this price. If it was made in Taiwan I would be seriously tempted since there have been some good knives lately coming out of Taichung, but it might have to be closer to $300.
Jasril
227
Feb 12, 2016
Onionmanso, with an unknown country of origin, but a full breakdown of how it was made, you wouldn't then be able to determine how much to pay for a knife in your hands?
JMoolah
0
Feb 13, 2016
JasrilWhat? It's a production version made by Reate
Dajiba
10
May 12, 2016
OnionmanWow. Agree with this100 percent. There are a lot of great quality Chinese companies out now. The thing is the price has been creeping up to the benefit of the company owner. Trust me they are not paying the workers more. Price of living in China is cheaper and doing labor job won't earn so much. There is always someone looking to take your place. Truth is technology is so advanced now. 3D milling for scales and blades, ball bearing washers make excellent quality from the get go with no traditional skills required. Because of the ease to make, and the ease of the materials to acquire I believe prices should be actually going down. It's a free market so they can charge whatever they want. These type of knives won't hold value much. Don't buy as expecting to resale later. The sheer volume will kill the resale. I'm sure the quality is phenomenal with today's technology. My only hope is that he designer is getting most of the money. id rather pay slightly more for a hoback but that's just me.
DrewDel
124
May 13, 2016
OnionmanYou're spot on... No Chinese produced knife should cost more than $100; no matter what it is made of. Using the highest quality blade steel and titanium doesn't add much money to the cost of making a knife. Going from bottom of the barrel metals to top end metals (excluding Damascus, zircati, damasteel, etc) does not add much production cost. All people have to do is look at metal prices on a wholesaler's website. If you can get a stick of 10xx series steel for $40/sick (say it makes 10 knives. That would be $4 per knife.), and then you can get a stick of s90v for $120 (that also makes 10 knives at $12 per knife) so that extra $8 isn't what is contributing to the cost of a ~$700 knife. You're paying for the in-country manufacturing, labor, experience, and craftsmanship; NOT the raw materials. (Again, excluding exotic materials like ones listed above.)
The only time Chinese knives are going to be justifiably expensive is if a major custom knife maker puts his name on it. Then you get guys like Jim Skelton paying $600 for a $67.89 knife because it has Todd Begg's name on it. So basically the Chinese are getting $46.59, and Begg is getting $553.41