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Caiz
23
Oct 10, 2018
I'm sorry, but right now I'm a bit curious as to what happens if i operate this as an output dac from my pc, say outputting 16bit 44.1khz. Does this device convert my pcm 16bit 44.1khz stream to DSD, or does the dac then operate at this 16bit 44.1khz rate and convert that to analog? If so does anyone have any measurements on how this product performs at various sample formats? I'm sure the specs are quoted for an ideal DSD implementation, right? Thank ya.
Z0d1Ac
251
Oct 10, 2018
CaizGoggle the measurements, not sure if there anything on the different sample rates.
Here is a guy with some measurements, maybe you can ask him/her https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-nx4-dsd-dac-and-portable-headphone-amplifier.3507/
You will need the included usb cable to connect to your computer. Then you will need a 3.5mm to 3.5mm (or to rca) cable to go from the line output to another headphone/speaker amp or straight into powered speakers.
No the dac does not upsample, it takes the digital signal and converts it to analog. You can make the computer (windows) upsample it by going to playback devices and choosing the highest sample rate/bit rate for the output device but it will likely not sound good/right then just using foobar and installing asio and doing bit perfect.
Caiz
23
Oct 10, 2018
Z0d1Acohh yeah, i would probably incrementally up-sample redbook audio to 16bit 88.2khz or 32bit 88.2 in that case. Depending on the performance characteristics of the device @sample format.., Which i guess no one knows, besides maybe 1 tester. .. You don't know of any other data sources sir? i posted here in the hope someone else would know of another place the figures might be published. But your certain if i send a pcm sample format; the device will operate in that mode, and not distribute to DSD, (not necessarily "upsample", could be a straight sample distribution, right?..) and that i cannot direct the device to operate in dsd mode running that conversion? I don't know about registering on another forum,fellow, i thought i'd check here certainly first, if this community had any knowledge on the matter about this product, at this product discussion section before registering on some forum to ask someone a spcific question or whatnot... =) Afterall maybe some fellow in the massdrop community, on this discussion page for the product is aware of another source of information which could satisfy.., im surpised the good man doesnt include in the measures the format titled in a heading, or subtitled, people just looking at the images, say from another reference source are given no information on the sampling and test, and samples at different formats are not provided either, i was wondering if anyone knew of any other sources, maybe more detailed and robust to answer my question, of the qaulity @formats. Many professional reviews test Dacs at various sample formats, (at least traditionally) and publish those results. Afterall that is very desirable and important information for some... Just because a dac looks great in one format doesn't hold alot of bearing on it's performance at another. eh? =) There could be "wildly" different results afterall, or results looking very much the same., Afterall. If i recall correctly;...) I've been a fan of topping for many years. Since I was shopping on Tripath amps years ago. Just haven't ever "bit the bullet" with them. so im not trying to be difficult, i'm just trying to find if anyone has published the data yet sufficient to satisfy what i'd like to know, as a shopper..
Z0d1Ac
251
Oct 10, 2018
CaizNope, going to have to google and see what you find or ask that one guy at that review site, he seems like he responds to people questions.
The nx4 goes all the way up to 768 khz and 512 dsd. At least it can do it. Other portable or even desktop dacs don't even go past 192 khz or 384 khz and 256 dsd. Making the nx4 a better for future proof.
I don't think the higher sample rates could be converted all that bad. But then again I don't even test dsd or anything higher than 192 or 96 khz.
I have not played with dsd but heard there are ways to upsample into dsd. I have tried upsampling using windows playback devices and that makes the music sound weird and it's actually better to leave it on 44.1 or 48 khz. Foobar with asio and set output to asio (device your using) you will get bit perfect with no conversion and it sound best this way because upsampling makes it sound weird and I don't care/like it.
Caiz
23
Oct 10, 2018
Z0d1Ac"Nope, going to have to google and see what you find or ask that one guy at that review site, he seems like he responds to people questions."
i already did "google", i dnot know why you would assume what i should have to do son., I'm asking here now, thats the recommended procedure.. I dont know why your drawing assertions of what i'll have to do, i just posted this recently, there could be more replies yet to come in.., It's fine to ask if anyone else has seen and findings and start a conversatino about known findings., thats how google result can get made, and links. =)
"I don't think the higher sample rates could be converted all that bad. But then again I don't even test dsd or anything higher than 192 or 96 khz. "
ohhkay, i was looking for someone who might definitively know.., not offer a suspicion and conjecture presented as fact.., I could have been misled by such incorrect presentations Zod1ac..
"I have not played with dsd but heard there are ways to up-sample into dsd. "
Im not just looking for up-sampling, but also "crossampling" and even "downsampling" or just dsd handling of pcm stream decimation having the device in a DSD mode, maybe at a floating DSD depending on if i'm outputting 16bit @44.1 or 24bit@96 or DSD. Like does the device have input sensing and actively adjust based on input format, or is it all passive, and if it's all passive can i set to to a DSD mode, to handle all samples into a DSD stream? Like what happens if i output to the device 16bit@44.1, then 24bit@96, then a few minutes later output DSD, then a few minutes later 88.2khz, is it always operating passively directly what i feed it or can it adjust samples into a format. Is anyone sure it's unable to do that, and that the only way to have it operate DSD is to send it only DSD but that it cant handle PCM streams into DSD? Or does anyone have more information on the operating modes, passive or active. I'm asking here on the community product page in the event someone might have intimate experience or in-depth knowledge about the device.., Afterall this is a place to chat about it. ;-)
"Foobar with asio and set output to asio (device your using) you will get bit perfect with no conversion and it sound best this way because up-sampling makes it sound weird and I don't care/like it."
lol. in your opinion maybe foobar is the "right way", but i suggest that not necessarily the case, or an implementation which would work as intended for many use cases. gooslette your making so many assumptions.., please reconsider your methods for science, =). Cheers.
taww
1
Nov 29, 2018
CaizI'm a little unclear what the purpose of the question is here. Ultimately the Sabre applies filtering to whatever input format comes in and then converts it with a proprietary modulator. ESS seems rather cagey about the details as they don't have any data sheets or block diagrams that I could find, but I don't think converting PCM to DSD would make much sense here as it'll all go through the same modulation in the end. There's no "passive" conversion option with a chip like the Sabre, unlike an old school NOS ladder DAC or a custom modulator eg via FPGA.
Z0d1AcUpsampling to DSD doesn't make it sound right because the track is not actually mastered in that format . only a few albums are actually remastered into DSD and they are expensive. You can still download some free DSD sample tracks to test the DAC.
Z0d1Ac
251
Jan 3, 2019
NightLightFightYes I am aware. The same thing applies to video. Whats the point in watching a 1080p source on a 4k tv. The up scaling if not* done* good* on the tv it will make the picture look not good. You be way better off playing 4k content on a 4k tv to get a true 4k experience. EDIT: Or just leave the 1080p and play it on a 1080p tv which will look better than trying to up convert it to 4k. (now there is upconverting that can be done that can make the picture look better).
(Edited)
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