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eclectocrat
24
Jun 7, 2017
Lots of negativity! Expensive: yes, luxury item: yes, unique: yes! I've gone through 3 nalgenes in 5 years, can't boil in them (safely), leech dioxins, ultimately pollute the planet with at least a few over the course of a lifetime of outdoor recreation. No disrespect, nalgenes are excellent, but if you plan on using this for many years and care about some less immediate benefits like longevity, ability to boil in emergencies (or when you want your coffee while the eggs fry), chemical leeching, etc, then this item has a lot of value. You just have to pay up front and reap the value over the course of many years.
Seanneves
94
Jun 7, 2017
eclectocratTotally agree. Only reason I won't get is the same reason I don't buy nice sunglasses: I lose them.
mjoseph97
82
Aug 30, 2017
eclectocratBecause titanium mining is terrific for the environment
helpusdrzaius
34
Nov 16, 2017
eclectocratI would lose it before that happened. Though maybe I wouldn't if I had paid $120 for it..
pullup188
17
Nov 18, 2017
eclectocratthen why don't you buy a plain old stainless steel bottle? I've had mine for 4 years and it cost like $20, if that.
FriggaD
Jan 2, 2018
eclectocratAs a chemist, I'd love to see the references you have specifying where Nalgene's Tritan plastics leech dioxins. Also, even bringing up that you would even attempt to boil in a plastic container, safe or not, says a lot. As for "longevity", I have a Vargo Bot...in fact, I have both the 700 mL and the larger size. I've dropped the larger size accidentally, it was empty, and it was cold outside, around 15 F (without wind chill) and hit a rock. The titanium fractured meaning I had no viable container anymore, while I've done the similar with a Nalgene in colder temps (I think it was ~-5 to 0 F), bounced down a pretty decent sized scree run...scratched but fine....and it was a 40 oz full of water.
Overall, don't believe BS hype about "chemical leeching materials" or other pandering 'buzz words' unless you've either done the testing yourself or done the leg work and found proper research
eclectocrat
24
Jan 2, 2018
FriggaDYou seem very grumpy, I hope you have a good 2018.
Just because it's weird to you doesn't "say a lot" about anything, my requirements are very technical and specific, I pointed out a factor where I prefer titanium over plastic. Sometimes you need to boil water in survival situations. If you are hiking on well marked trails or in the city park then these kinds of concerns are academic and not important. When you go out where I do for weeks alone, being able to boil water in an emergency is a very serious factor in the quality of my water containers.
In regards to chemical leaeching, theres a thing called google, you can educate yourself on the latest scientific advancements. It works really well at finding references to really common scientific facts like BPA and birth defects, dioxins and heating water in plastic. Of course there is lot of nonsense and hype, but with a tiny bit of media literacy you can find the legitimate research papers. It's pretty cool at how much you can learn if you put some effort into it, but since I'm not your high school teacher, I'll let you work that one out yourself.
Also, titanium should never crack under normal use, even at 15f. If your titanium cracked, you may have got a cheap Chinese knock off, or defective unit. I have dropped my Vargo bot half a dozen times on rocks in warm and cold weather, full and empty. It's very dented but not cracked. I would reach out to Vargo for a replacement.
FriggaD
Jan 3, 2018
eclectocratOk, faceless wonder. Tritan Copolyester (via Eastman Kodak) has ~318 current Safety Data Sheets. Main points in the 25 I pulled randomly. *Recommended restrictions on use : None known. *This substance/mixture contains no components considered to be either persistent, bioaccumula-tive and toxic (PBT), or very persistent and very bioaccumulative (vPvB) at levels of 0.1% or higher. *Flash point : Not applicable *Decomposition temperature : Thermal stability not tested. Low stability hazard expected at normal operating temperatures -This is the "heating/boiling" you're talking about....also *Possibility of hazardous reactions Hazardous reactions : Stable *Hazardous decomposition products Carbon monoxide, Carbon dioxide (CO2) -You produce this in your normal aerobic metabolism
Tritan contains no BPS. (BP-A, BP-B....etc....other analogs), so and has been shown to have no hormone-analog activity. Thomas G. Osimitz, Melanie L. Eldridge, Eddie Sloter, William Welsh, Ni Ai, Gary S. Sayler, FuMin Menn, Colleen Toole. (2012) Lack of androgenicity and estrogenicity of the three monomers used in Eastman’s Tritan™ copolyesters. "Food and Chemical Toxicology 50" (6), 2196-2205.
Dioxin from plastics (Primarily from PVC, not Nalgene's Tritan)- J Thornton, M McCally, P Orris, and J Weinberg. (1996) Hospitals and plastics. Dioxin prevention and medical waste incinerators. "Public Health Rep 111"(4), 298–313.
Also, buy a Sawyer filter and you don't need to boil for safety but need clean water.....or you could buy a nesting cup that fits around your nalgene....
Next time, bring your "A" game and actually DO THE RESEARCH before you spout nonsense.
eclectocrat
24
Jan 7, 2018
FriggaDI'm not sure why you are so angry, do you work for Eastman Kodak? Science is always being overturned and we are discovering new things everyday. Here are a few pop articles and their linked academic studies which directly contradict the vendor paid for studies that you posted:
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2017/170228/ncomms14585/full/ncomms14585.html https://www.popsci.com/bpa-free-plastic-bad-for-human-health http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14585 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1003220/
In fact Eastman Kodak won a legal injunction against a competitor for fabricating claims about products, including Tritan Copolyester based on one of those studies, but the science held up perfectly well to scrutiny, it was a matter of legal definitions that one them the suit.
Here is a quote from a January 2017 study called "Fluorene-9-bisphenol is anti-oestrogenic and may cause adverse pregnancy outcomes in mice": " In addition, BHPF was also detected in water from two bottles made of Eastman Tritan copolyester, a BPA-free material."
I generally don't bring my A game to the internet because I'm busy with real life, but I think this is enough to show that the science is still being debated and taking caution is a scientifically supportable position. I'm not making anti-vaccine claims here. I think we can all agree that we are pro science here, and I know that I have learned something, so thanks.
Happy new year.
eclectocrat
24
Jan 7, 2018
mjoseph97Good point, I guess I'll have to learn about that!
eclectocrat
24
Jan 7, 2018
pullup188Perfectly viable option, probably much more sensible one for most folks :) I guess when I count grams on my expeditions it helps me get my number a tiny bit lower, and I do like that the titanium will never rust. Not really important factors for most people most of the time, but I like them.
FriggaD
Jan 10, 2018
eclectocratYou claimed the Nalgene products, of which the primary containers used, is those made of Tritan. You mentioned "nalgenes" and "leech dioxins" in the first sentence of the second paragraph, so I researched Tritan decompositions and the resulting materials/products. You specifically mentioned "nalgene" and "chemical leeching" in the very same sentence and from that I researched Tritan.
You never once mentioned other plastics, those that claim "BPA or BPS analog free", etc.
Your first set of statements are misleading and therefore contain misinformation....moreso via the later cited articles. This is analagous to saying that our bodies break down food and produces methane, and that methane can an agent of action in suffocation/asphyxiation/pneumonia in humans, 'greenhouse effect', and is even flammable, that we should ingest food of any type.
These misleading and often hyperbolic statements are what people latch onto....they love buzzwords....which you used.
I'm glad you're amenable to learning/researching....but you shouldn't make strong statements about subjects you haven't researched, or use "card stacking" when you do some research, just to show a 'good hand' to make your point.
iwendt
107
Apr 23, 2018
FriggaDhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4063249/
Seems like you should do more research. This study very clearly shows EA with Tritan and other BPA-free polymers, and that's just one of the very first ones I found with a quick google. There are others.