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Showing 1 of 113 conversations about:
RedTape
27
Jan 1, 2015
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Now that we're looking at 400 dollar keyboards and comparing value.
What exactly goes on in a gon or other korean custom (aside from the case, the programmable pcb, the stickers and korean mx switches) to make it so "special"?
TheWheeledOne
37
Jan 1, 2015
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RedTapeLow volume, high demand, and high customization options. It really boils down to this: If you have to ask this question, you're clearly not the niche of the niche market that it appeals to. If you have no interest in breaking down switches, or building a board from the ground up, or no needs or desires to heavily tweak the feel of the keyboard to your liking, then a GON or similar is going to be wasted on you. For those that want that kind of customization, the alternatives tend to be handwiring or designing a PCB from scratch -- both of which are involved, and the design phase for a new PCB is *FAR* more involved than you would think.
TL;DR -- you already know what makes them special. Its the case, the programmable pcb, the stickers, the Korean weighted springs -- precisely what you handwaved away in the comment. That *IS* what makes it special.
TL;DR -- you already know what makes them special. Its the case, the programmable pcb, the stickers, the Korean weighted springs -- precisely what you handwaved away in the comment. That *IS* what makes it special.
Inanis
515
SEALWoodworking
Jan 1, 2015
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RedTapeAll those things you listed already make it special. But, to expand on that, think of it like a custom made suit from a very fine tailor. You are paying a premium for a one of a kind piece of awesome to call your own.
Pr.Plump
54
Jan 1, 2015
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InanisThat's it. I think that if you're ready to put this much money in a keyboard, you're part of niche that apreciate a well designed product not only for the build quality but also for the tweaking possibilities. Hardcore enthusiasts take their keyboards apart, and want to be able to modify bits and pieces to their liking.
Varmilo may have taken their first step in that direction, but to properly aim at that niche market, I think they should broaden the customization possibilities. And it doesn't mean making a Gon's bis. The idea of the full aluminum body in itself would be enough to make a difference with Gon's flimsy looking design.
RedTape
27
Jan 2, 2015
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TheWheeledOneI guess in a sense that's true.
Although to the whole "If you have to ask this question, you're clearly not the niche of the niche market that it appeals to. " Don't readily make that assumption when somebody asks about value because I'm sure everybody has been in a similar situation and I'm sure we've all asked what's made a mechanical keyboard so special, what makes it 3-4x more expensive than a normal keyboard the first time we heard about it.
A few nitpicks though. You don't have to start from scratch. There's a small handful of PCBs (like the phantom, or the GH40-something) that you can buy and are re-programmable. Cases, stickers and korean switches can be bought via group buys. You have to know how to solder or beg somebody to do it for you and you're probably missing out on some craftsmanship.
As for the Gon or another custom, I'd love to try one definitely just so I can hash out the difference and quality.
Although to the whole "If you have to ask this question, you're clearly not the niche of the niche market that it appeals to. " Don't readily make that assumption when somebody asks about value because I'm sure everybody has been in a similar situation and I'm sure we've all asked what's made a mechanical keyboard so special, what makes it 3-4x more expensive than a normal keyboard the first time we heard about it.
A few nitpicks though. You don't have to start from scratch. There's a small handful of PCBs (like the phantom, or the GH40-something) that you can buy and are re-programmable. Cases, stickers and korean switches can be bought via group buys. You have to know how to solder or beg somebody to do it for you and you're probably missing out on some craftsmanship.
As for the Gon or another custom, I'd love to try one definitely just so I can hash out the difference and quality.
TheWheeledOne
37
Jan 2, 2015
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RedTapeIt wasn't intended to come across as insulting -- it was more of an acknowledgement of the niche of the niche of the niche that it is. :) It's a level of customization that even a customization-hungry group like mech keyboard fanatics simply don't get to very often -- most people will never even think of building out their own board or disassembling a switch for lubing/stickering.
The cost is a more difficult proposition for most; they see the parts that can be mass produced and wonder why the cost is what it is. It all boils down to supply vs demand -- if we were to have a drop for a parts-complete GON keyboard (similar to the ErgoDox drops), we could probably get the cost on a custom down to the $200 range, just like is achieved with the ErgoDox. Unfortunately, with the volume of production, that is about the best we could hope for.
As far as starting from scratch; I think you missed my point. Yes, there are absolutely several different PCB's to choose from; that is not what I was saying. I was saying that the process of building a PCB from the ground up is *VERY* involved. The prototyping phase alone can take months and thousands of dollars, while you work to get all your layers and layout built the way you want. I said 'a GON or similar' for this very reason -- if you're using a GH60, or a GON, or a SPRIT, or any of the pre-built PCB's, you don't qualify for the building from the ground up I mentioned. The purpose of the statement was to further back up the point of low volume, high demand product -- that the alternative for a pre-built PCB either involves hand-wiring, or instantly becomes far more complex -- and that the process of manufacturing said PCB is more involved on the production side than most would immediately think.
The cost is a more difficult proposition for most; they see the parts that can be mass produced and wonder why the cost is what it is. It all boils down to supply vs demand -- if we were to have a drop for a parts-complete GON keyboard (similar to the ErgoDox drops), we could probably get the cost on a custom down to the $200 range, just like is achieved with the ErgoDox. Unfortunately, with the volume of production, that is about the best we could hope for.
As far as starting from scratch; I think you missed my point. Yes, there are absolutely several different PCB's to choose from; that is not what I was saying. I was saying that the process of building a PCB from the ground up is *VERY* involved. The prototyping phase alone can take months and thousands of dollars, while you work to get all your layers and layout built the way you want. I said 'a GON or similar' for this very reason -- if you're using a GH60, or a GON, or a SPRIT, or any of the pre-built PCB's, you don't qualify for the building from the ground up I mentioned. The purpose of the statement was to further back up the point of low volume, high demand product -- that the alternative for a pre-built PCB either involves hand-wiring, or instantly becomes far more complex -- and that the process of manufacturing said PCB is more involved on the production side than most would immediately think.
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