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hodgeac
22
Feb 3, 2017
How would we have known? I'm honestly not happy with this update. I'd really like them to stop telling us that they'll give us another update on such and such date "or sooner if something comes up" but then we don't hear sooner even when something clearly HAS come up. Does no one remember that the last update we got on this drop was that they were gathering and packing the keyboards for shipment to Massdrop? ("they've let us know that they are still working to gather and pack the group's order for shipment to our warehouse in New Jersey.") That was two weeks ago. Now all of a sudden we're back at manufacturing/QA and we've got vague excuses about Chinese New Year and an unknown (at least two week) delay. It's BS. Frankly I would have had this keyboard weeks ago had I just ordered it from aliexpress or banggood for a few bucks more. Had I known it was going to take 3 months to even ship the keyboards through Massdrop, I wouldn't have hesitated going the solo route.
Tigole
464
Feb 3, 2017
hodgeacWelcome to the Massdrop experience--where for a few bucks more, you could have gotten something much sooner from elsewhere.
Data
2004
Data
Feb 3, 2017
hodgeacNice rant. Feel better now?
1. You couldn't have got this keyboard - this exact keyboard - anywhere else. No way. I gotta call bullshit on that one. This run incorporates numerous changes and updates to the original Chinese design as a result of extensive testing and prototyping done by XMIT. You knew that when you joined the drop, right? You might find this version of the board on Taobao months from now. The Chinese manufacturer will likely continue producing the board with XMIT's tweaks from this point on. But that avenue won't be open for a while yet - long after you will have received your Massdrop order. And if you'd bought from one of those other sources 3 months ago you would have received a VASTLY inferior product.
2. The ESTIMATED delivery was always going to be in February. That was public knowledge plastered all over the drop description from Day One. It'll probably still be in February, or very close. Is this your first keyboard group buy? Because these sorts of delays are very common, and this one isn't even particularly bad. So simmer down. There's nothing to get upset about... yet.
hodgeac
22
Feb 3, 2017
DataData, Clearly you're interested in making sure you bat away buyers remorse with delusion. In what way is this keyboard different from the Ace Pad Hall Effect Keyboard? Besides having XMIT laser etched on the case. I'm saying this because these problems that they're saying were a surprise(!) found in QA are nothing new. The other reviews of the Ace Pad Hall Effect Keyboard mention various problems relating to the key cap fitment and slider movement due to problems with the manufacturers molds not being great. If that basic of an issue wasn't corrected in this "special XMIT edition", then what was? Check this out: https://acepads.en.alibaba.com/product/60576154546-801916463/Hall_Effect_Mechanical_Keyboards.html My favorite part of that link is the $50 price tag when you buy 500 of them. Man, I really hope you clue me in to some really awesome XMIT customization I paid for. I mean Massdrop should have gotten us a decent deal right...?
Estimated delivery plastered all over the drop description? Where's that exactly? I see an estimated ship date that they won't hit. Supposedly we now have a vague delay of 2 weeks. Massdrop won't give us any estimate on ship dates from the manufacturer to them let alone a delivery estimate to us. Realize its going to be one to two weeks before Massdrop hears back from Ace Pads (they're on vacation), then they have to "fix" this manufacturing issue (good news, they've known about it for months), then they have to fix our boards, then they have to ship our boards to Massdrop in NJ. Then presumably, Massdrop will do some of their own quality assurance. Then Massdrop will ship via UPS ground or something. We're looking at late March, early April delivery on the west coast (assuming they actually fix the keyboards "quickly").
I fully accept that I'm being cynical about this. It doesn't mean I'm wrong.
BTW, I just got a response from XMIT in regards to what is different between the boards in this drop vs. those in my link above if anyone is wondering like I was. " 1. Boards ordered through me, with XMIT Keyboards branding, go through an additional QA process and are supported and warranted by me and Massdrop. I can't promise anything about boards not ordered through me with regard to configuration, programmability, choice of stabilizers, etc. 2. By ordering through me you're supporting future development for things like clicky and tactile switches, programmable firmware, and new layouts. 3. That price doesn't include shipping." I'll just leave it there I guess. We'll see how this all pans out in a month or two.
XMIT
881
XMIT
Feb 3, 2017
hodgeacHi hodgeac - I’m sorry to hear you are not happy with this update but it is the truth. We’re not trying to hide anything from anyone.
The keyboards are mostly done and were scheduled to get on a flight on the 28th, just before the Chinese New Year holiday. The manufacturer caught a quality control issue with key fitment with not enough time before the holiday to fix it, so, they missed the flight.
The holiday is no joke: if you’re not aware, it is the largest human migration on the planet, with nearly a billion people going home for the holidays. The country shuts down! It’s not like this snuck up on us, either. The original estimates were very conservative figuring delays including this holiday and sure enough we’re delayed by it.
I’ll hear back on Monday or Tuesday from the factory once they all return and start things going again.
If I understand the issue correctly, the problem is that one mold for the key switch sliders is slightly undersized and produces inconsistent parts. They thought they had fixed this. They will work to identify and retire the mold, shoot new parts and repair everyone’s keyboards before shipment.
(Personally, I use a little piece of plastic bag material as a shim for any keyboard - these or others - when the sliders are undersized, but, better to have it right from the factory.)
After this, here is what you can expect:
- keyboards get on a plane from China to New Jersey; - Massdrop’s warehouse in New Jersey breaks down the order and sends packages and tracking numbers; - you get a package with a keyboard.
Each of these steps take about a week, and, are about the same for any Massdrop order!
hodgeac, I think that some of your expectations are based on the fact that this is a large, well established operation. It’s not. The manufacturer is a small company working hard to ship 1000+ keyboards to my exacting quality control requirements. I’ve been working with them since June of 2016 to work out lots of kinks that are documented in various forum posts.
It is true that the manufacturer will try to sell versions of the board with my proposed improvements on the open market. This is something I cannot really control and is what happens when doing business with China. But please do realize that we’re also actively working on new product.
Please let me reiterate: by buying here - and being part of the group buy - you’re not just buying a keyboard, you’re actively supporting the development of future revisions to the board.
I can appreciate that delays don’t make anyone happy. I’m waiting on various parts and pieces from this order that are delayed just like yours, and, these delays get in the way of new product development. But if I haven’t convinced you by now that we’re doing everything we can, then, I’m not sure I’ll be able to convince you at all.
Regardless, I hope your keyboard arrives in February and that you love it!
XMIT
j4371
Feb 3, 2017
j4371
Feb 3, 2017
TigoleAnd yet ... nobody is holding a gun to your head to be here.
Here you go!
https://helpdesk.massdrop.com/hc/en-us/articles/216080487-How-do-I-delete-my-account-
Tigole
464
Feb 3, 2017
j4371You're so clever. I bet your mommy tells you that all the time, so it must be true.
hodgeac
22
Feb 3, 2017
Tigolelol
whomad1215
755
Feb 3, 2017
hodgeacThis is pretty much par for the course with anything custom-esque in the keyboard world. It's always a long wait, often with some problems that may be expected and some that weren't.
Misfit138
59
Feb 4, 2017
XMIT 2017 will go down as the year of the "Great Salty Tears Flood", Q_Q everywhere ya go now a days :/
Take your time with it man, no worries on this end. I'd much rather receive it months from now than to get an inferior product.
BenjaminHare
6
Feb 4, 2017
XMITFor what it's worth, I appreciate all the work you're putting into this, and for keeping us informed. At times it can feel like a thankless job, but I appreciate all you are doing. I enjoy this back and forth dialog with the vendor that Massdrop affords me as a purchaser. I even enjoy the anticipation of waiting for a unique and very much niche product. If it takes a bit longer than originally intended to get the product, no matter. Like Misfit138 said, I'm more than happy to wait longer for a superior product.
Mateusz
60
Feb 4, 2017
XMITI'm fine with waiting (tho I do realise not everyone shares my feelings on the matter) if it means getting a higher quality product, I can easily wait another month if need be. Take your time. Cheers.
funkfist
5
Feb 8, 2017
DataWe have been told this is an "improved" product but if you looked at reviews of the keyboard this is based off it has the same issues of key caps falling off and key caps being too tight. This latest update does not inspire confidence in this product or Xmit and honestly I feel like we may have been lied to about this board and the only change is Xmit's logo plastered on the higher key count versions.
Data
2004
Data
Feb 8, 2017
funkfistI guess you haven't followed the testing and iteration process over the last 6 months, because that's not even a remotely reasonable position to take on this drop. Feels bad man. Read this: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84525.0
funkfist
5
Feb 8, 2017
DataFeels bad to be a sheep. There is nothing in the entirety of that thread that gives concrete proof he improved anything. Sure he could say he done this and this but showing a naked board and desoldering a few of the switches doesn't mean he has done anything. I'm highly suspect of this drop and wondering if he bought a bunch of the keyboards from the original manufacturer for cheap, laser printed his name on it and is now selling them for a profit with no improvements whatsoever. I guess you haven't seen the multiple reviews on youtube that have the exact same problem with keycaps either being loose or too tight. If you were improving a keyboard wouldn't the FIRST thing you do is make sure an EXISTING WIDE SPREAD PROBLEM was FIXED before STARTING MANUFACTURING? I might be wrong and if I am whenever I receive my keyboard I will apologize, until then these are my thoughts and worries about the keyboard.
Data
2004
Data
Feb 8, 2017
funkfistYou know how I know you didn't read it?
Because other people, trusted members of the community, also paid for and received prototype boards from the initial (private) run in order to be a part of this process. Matt3o and Engicoder are two such members who have run successful group buys in the past and with whom I've collaborated on other projects. There are a couple others whose names I don't recognize, but their input was just as important to the entire project. So I guess all those people are equally complicit in the plan to fleece the Massdrop community with rebranded Chinese junk keyboards, right?
Sheep should be more cautious when wolves are about.
Data
2004
Data
Mar 9, 2017
hodgeacSo, you were saying? :)
hodgeac
22
Mar 10, 2017
DataMan, you're a piece of work aren't you. Your name and little star trek logo should have clued me in to just how lonely you are and I would have expected you to circle back around. As I was saying, yes, I still don't have my keyboard. Though I anticipate that it will arrive next week. Nice! Mid March 2017! Keyboards without nkey rollover! Jeez man, I'm glad we paid more for all that research and development! We could have ended up with a "VASTLY inferior product"! You were saying we'd have our boards in February though, right? That was you, right? Have you been reading the comments in here lately? Honestly, it's clear that you're exactly as funkfist and I pegged you from the get go, a sheep, a lemming, a fanboy. I'll tell you what I'm sure of though, you *think* you're pretty bad ass. You should have just left it alone cause you're looking pretty silly right now. You're over there gloating like this drop was some kind of glowing success...smh. I'm just sayin'.
Data
2004
Data
Mar 10, 2017
hodgeacHey, thanks for responding. I never imagined it would be so easy.
Enjoy your keyboard. ;)
hodgeac
22
Mar 10, 2017
DataThanks champ.
XMIT
881
XMIT
Mar 10, 2017
hodgeacI'm not even sure how best to respond to this. Manufacturing is challenging and the factory is repeating a bunch of errors that we've talked about in the past. I've got eight pages of notes for items that require follow up with the factory. If we can't get quality control to a consistent high level there won't be a Round 2, period. I'm optimistic that we'll get everything sorted.
This thread is somewhat self selecting: there are plenty of satisfied folks who are not chiming in. Ah well.
I'll be a guest on Top Clack in a week's time. Would it be helpful for you to send your questions, comments, and concerns to the Top Clack folks, to ask me in real time when we chat?
hodgeac
22
Mar 10, 2017
XMITHey XMIT, I wasn't wanting to bag on you too hard. I actually think you might be doing your best to get the manufacturer to provide us with a "good" product. The thing is, the comments reflect that there are a LOT of issues. And there is the over all nkey roll over issue, where it was decided "eh, good enough". My favorite was when you told us in the comments to "find some bigger screws" or something to that effect if the screws that hold our boards together are stripped out...Which apparently got past the QA department...There is a QA dept right? I know you said that "The manufacturer is a small company working hard to ship 1000+ keyboards to my exacting quality control requirements."
So I guess that didn't work out. This sucks for all of us. Sucks for you too, since your name is burned into these boards. And I'm sure you feel bad about it. But listen man, every time an issue comes up or problems happen in this process and you say "it'll be better next time", you gotta know that means literally nothing to us. This isn't kickstarter. I didn't "Back" you. I bought a keyboard. I don't think you deserve a pass man. You signed up for this shit. We each paid $100+ for what we were sold as some kind of custom "Designed by XMIT" experience. Talk about disappointing.
You seem like a genuine nice guy who is trying hard and hitting lots of bumps so I feel BAD writing this honest crap here. So, I'm sorry if I come across as a jerk. I'm just being honest. I still hope that my keyboard shows up sometime next week and that it's miraculously problem free. You know, besides nkey rollover.
XMIT
881
XMIT
Mar 10, 2017
hodgeacNo worries, I welcome honest feedback. (But let's focus on facts, and not on conspiracy theories of how XMIT is somehow introducing quality issues on purpose, because I'm not.)
I'm still gathering feedback and thinking of the best ways to loop back with the factory. My take is that, on the whole, quality is pretty good but either one production line or one manager at the factory is really letting things slide. They really disappointed me, and as a result, I've disappointed some of you.
The screws issue is something that I raised early on. I said, "hey, these screws are garbage, they strip really easily, put in brass inserts". They said, "we've reproduced the issue, larger screws help". They sent me prototype boards with the larger screws that passed my validation and I OK'd it after some tests. Then, as it turns out, they shipped boards with the larger screws that *still* had stripping issues. So, one way or the other, the screws will thread into metal, and not plastic or wood, next time.
There are more issues like that. I'm not trying to pass the buck, but, it is a challenge to enforce quality control standards over a time, distance, language, and cultural barrier. Not impossible, but a challenge. We hit lots of issues from about June through December of last year and I thought we had worked through all of them. Turns out some of those issues re-surfaced, and, there were some new issues.
I disagree that "better next time" is meaningless. Of course I would, this should be no surprise. I disagree because there will be retrofits available. I'm being a little vague on purpose - there are many factors here and I'm exploring multiple avenues for how to best address all the quality issues raised by you and other Round 1 supporters.
Folks like you have high expectations and ultimately push for a better product so I appreciate hearing from you.
I'm going to consider every component of the board, the fabrication process, the assembly process and the shipping and fulfillment process, and look for improvements in all areas. All I can ask is that you bear with me while I do. There are a very limited number of things that I can't talk about publicly but nearly everything else is out in the open here or in some forum post, and eventually, on xmitkeyboards.com.
hodgeac
22
Mar 10, 2017
XMITSounds good. And I don't know about anyone saying you caused issues on purpose. Those people are crazy. Your name is on these things. The last thing you want is a crap product. Anyway, like I said, I'm looking forward to my keyboard showing up sometime next week hopefully. And I'm sure you know I'll be posting my impressions. So, hey, next time maybe not Massdrop. Not impressed by Massdrop being unable to ship 1500 or whatever keyboards in a timely fashion. Nor being charged $9 shipping for what amounts to the slowest possible mail service in the United States. Honestly, I doubt I'll be involved in any "Next time" but hell maybe you could surprise me. Thanks again for trying hard. I think you will persevere man. You've got the mindset for it. It might take a while but could be in a few years XMITkeyboards will be a big deal. I hope so.
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