Zeal60 RGB LED PCB (Rev 4 with USB-C) Discussions | Drop

Oct 19, 2017

fopenplopWell the pcb designer selects the parts and makes the footprints to match them. Each manufacturer has a slightly different dimensions and locations for the pads and interchanging them is not adviced. Anyway, mini-usb is a legacy connection which was taken out of use because of reliability issues. Choosing to use it instead of the superior micro-usb or usb-c is a design choice.

Oct 19, 2017

Oct 19, 2017

pomkUSB-C wasn’t a thing yet when this pcb was made I don’t think. And almost no one builds pcbs with micro connectors because most of the people in the community with custom cables have minis-b plugs.
The port on the zeal is quite well reinforced though. Way more than most pcbs. It actually causes issues with cases that the port outlet is too small. I’d be impressed if you actually managed to damage it. The pcb actually extends basically the entire length of the connector:

I don’t worry about the connector at all.

Oct 19, 2017

Oct 19, 2017

Amnesia1187So in your mind the legacy cable base is a valid reason for an inferior connector? Usb-c has been around for forever already, just make a rev1.2 of the board with a non-legacy connector. It’s not like they are selling old stock here.

Oct 19, 2017

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Oct 20, 2017

pomkSpec wars for keyboards are stupid. What can a usb-c pcb do that this can’t?
Yes, install base is a perfectly valid reason. keyboards are NOT the types of things that benefit from better connections. They don’t move so the plug isn’t stressed. They don’t need high speed or lots of power. They don’t need to save space like phones did when the switched.
Zeal makes pcbs for enthusiasts. Enthusiasts want custom cables and currently the usb-c options are limited. everything will switch eventually. But probably at least 2-3 years at least. And im not sure what your version of forever is, but the first device I remember switching to usb-c was the 2015 MacBook that switched to just usb-c. That was around 2.5 years ago and people flipped the heck out. It was probably at least a year past thay before people calmed down. I’d say usb-c has been mainstream maybe 12-18 months.
Will i buy another one when USB-C is offered? Sure probably. But I’m not really sure why that would be a blocker unless you have some serious ocd and have been having a permenant stroke waiting for a keyboard that could use the same plug on both ends. Cause that’s pretty much all you gain.

Oct 20, 2017

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Oct 20, 2017

Amnesia1187As long as you consider durability a spec, then I would be all in for a spec war about it. There is no valid reason for choosing mini-usb over micro, both have a very wide selection of cables from multiple sources, yet one fails easily (see OP) and one does not. I agree that usb-c is still a bit of a gimmick and difficult to switch to because of legacy cases not sporting a large enough hole in the back.

Oct 20, 2017

Oct 20, 2017

pomkMaybe, but when the choices are 10x more durable than required or 100x more durable than required, i dont really care. Durability only matters up to the amount of stress you put on something.
Strong ports are far more important on devices like phones since people still use them and move them around with cables stuck in em. Those ports experience all kinds of stress and get pulled every which way.
Keyboards get plugged in and then sit there. I have like 10 nice custom mini-b cables. I have 0 micro cables. The ONLY board I own with a micro plug is my anne pro. Would micro stop me from buying? not at all, but mini-b just IS the standard for keyboards. The anne pro is literally the only board I'm even aware of that comes with micro. I don't know of any micro based pcbs or anything.
Can micro be more durable? sure. But its hard to justify switching to a dead standard that no one has cables for. It makes more sense to just wait another year or two for usb-c to really catch on.

Oct 20, 2017

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gyratus

Oct 20, 2017

Amnesia1187Some keyboards do move around..
Also, if you switched a 60% board to USB-C at this point where are you going to get a case for it? The Pok3r-compatible cases often only have a cutout big enough for Mini B, or maybe Micro B.

Oct 20, 2017

Oct 20, 2017

Amnesia1187I think that we only disagree on the amount of necessary durability and the weight we put on pre-existing cables vs. robust products. As per the OP, mini is just not even 1x as durable as needed, and micro would be barely over 1x. If you ever use force on the cable connection, the mini is going to destroy the PCB, while micro is designed to destroy the cable side only. TBH mini is even more dead than micro, as no sane accessory manufacturer uses it for anything because they break. I have zero peripherals/cameras/etc. that I have used daily where the mini-usb connection has not failed or become very loose (multiple phones, canon cameras, keyboards etc.).

Oct 20, 2017

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Oct 20, 2017

pomkGood for you. I have 3 zeal60s and 0 failed ports. thus by my definition they are clearly durable enough.
You our act as if something cannot exceed its specs.

My entire point is basically ALL current enthusiast pcbs use mini-b including the gh60. That means anyone who has wanted cables has gotten miniB cables. Switching to micro will make anyone with an existing keyboard need new cables. And then when we switch to usbC they would need them replaced again. I’m just saying it makes more sense now to wait until custom usbC is a really ready and the cables are available.

Oct 20, 2017

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Oct 20, 2017

Amnesia1187Usually durability specs are the result of testing, not some arbitrary numbers. Try taking one of those three boards everyday somewhere with you and see how it fails after a year or two. Cables cost virtually nothing, fixing a full build costs 200+ USD. I agree that everyone should have switched to micro a long time ago, instead people kept using mini because ’it looks sturdier’.

Oct 20, 2017

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Liberty

345

Oct 29, 2017

Amnesia1187"They don’t move so the plug isn’t stressed." Do not generalize, please. That is simply a false claim. For example, I move my keyboard a lot. I also disconnect it often for regular cleaning. Have you ever seen people putting keyboards on their laps or using keyboards along with laptops in various space-limited places like in coffee shops or on sofas?

Oct 29, 2017

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Oct 30, 2017

LibertyYour density is astounding.
I will lay in bed using my phone while it is pluged in. The cable will snug and snag and put stress on the port.
I will walk around using my phone while dragging a 10ft cable behind me and our stress on the port.
I will I’ll grab the cable to pick up my phone putting stress on the port.
This IS NOT the same with keyboards. I mean I guess you could do those things, but that’s your choice, it’s not what’s a keyboard is meant for. Keyboards sit stationary on desks in use, phones are EXPECTED to move around and be held and go in pockets.
Yes, there are always edge cases, but your argument is tantamount to claiming all bicycles need training wheels because some people can’t ride without them. Yes, they could help some people, but that is not the expected use of either thing.

If you you really think this is the same use case as a phone and that it has the same requirements of durability, you are battshit crazy.

Oct 30, 2017

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Liberty

345

Oct 30, 2017

Amnesia1187OK, now we know that YOU do not move your keyboard around, fine, but people do. Speak for yourself, not billions. Btw, many keyboards are clearly expected to be moved around.

Oct 30, 2017