Zhen VG-10 Damascus Kitchen Knivessearch

Zhen VG-10 Damascus Kitchen Knives

Zhen VG-10 Damascus Kitchen Knives

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I‘ve ordered the 7” Veggie Cleaver and 5” Santoku; does anyone know if these knives come sharp!? And, how sharp ? ...relatively 600grit, 1000, + ? Thanks !
anyone know the thickness on the butcher knife? is it thin like a chinese cleaver for veggie slicing or more for heavy duty stuff?
theMZA
I think massdrop's attitude to product dimensions is something along the lines of "we could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you".
It may be this model: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E0EF7P0
In which case it's a thin (1.8mm) blade for veggies. But I can't guarantee it, I seem to remember in their 3-layer range they have otherwise identical looking cleavers in which the only difference is the thickness of the blade - a thin one for veggie prep and a thicker one (at least twice as thick) of the type that massdrop would probably use to dispose of your body if they ever accidently tell you the product dimensions.
Jaggi
Yea, i think you're right. I even found it on the actual ZHEN website, and its the same dims as the one you sent a link of. Thanks! https://www.zhenpremiumknife.com/collections/damascus-series/products/a7p-japanese-vg-10-67-layers-damascus-steel-light-slicer-chopping-chef-butcher-knife-6-5-inch-silver
Are these genuine hammered Damascus or is the look-alike Damascus that's mass/machine produced?
rdodev
No, you are not getting hand forged damascus for $60. Yes it really is pattern welded steel.
The 5 inch santoku option is not listed. Is it already sold out or is it missing by accident?
theMZA
It's missing on purpose I believe. The 5-inch Santoku hasn't been available the last few times this drop has been active.
theMZA
Looks like I was wrong :) For the first time in almost a year the 5-inch Santoku is available again.
Hey Massdrop, are the other clever options gone. I only see the vegetable clever available now ?
Hey Massdrop! Why isn't the 5" Santoku listed in the ordering options?
There is no option for the 7 inch vegetable cleaver when I go to join the drop???
so from my understanding, this is still considered san mai construction (3 layers)? And 67 layers mean, vg10 core, and one 33 layered steel forged together on each side? How does this differ in terms of edge retention when compared to the 3-layer forged? Or is it purely aesthetics?
MarcusK
The extra layers are purely for looks. Only the inner core counts for the "edge" if it's san mai. The many layers in the outer steel account for the pattern (pattern welded). This could STILL be a solid pattern welded blade and not san mai. Still not sure how they folded to get 67 layers. Doesn't really add up, even if they did san mai.
Krustyboomer
thanks for the replies!
Why is the Santoku not available to choose under Join Drop?!?
To Massdrop people... Why is this drop or any kitchen knives drop, cannot be delivered to Israel ???
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boooo you are a tool
SwiftySoul
Yup. I'm a tool for pointing out the truth.
What the fuck? The price doubled since last time! The 7" Vegetable knife was $32 now it's $65! Can't justify it now. Oh well...
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sailormp
You're probably thinking of this drop where the 7" vegetable knife was $32.99:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/zhen-vegetable-knives
Jaggi
Yup. That's correct.
Could anybody tell me how much the base price for this drop was?
Doopywoopy
It was $64.99 at the time you asked, but this current drop has lowered it to $59.99.
Massdrop-guys, why the santoku knife is not in option list when I'm joining? Can you fix it?
Once again, the 5 inch santoku is shown on the drop page as an option, but not available when i go to join the drop. This same thing happened last time and I notified mass drop of the inaccuracy. How does it not get fixed next time the drop goes live??? It's annoying, because that is the only knife shown that i want to purchase.
Is this another one of those cheap Chinese made knives, using a Japanese steel?
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Does japanese use chinese steel?
kowala
I have several Zhen knives and they appear equivalent to Japanese made Shun knives in everything except price. From what I’ve heard in the knife community, Zhen may use a slightly superior and less brittle heat treatment for their blades.
I wish the 5 inch santoku was avaliable.
Is the 5 inch santoku not available in this drop?
Bknguyen
To specify, it doesn't show up as an option when joining.
Is this china made? Currently the only thing stopping me from buying. Judging by the name "Zhen" I'd assume so...
Everyone seems to be disappointed by other things while I'm amused by "slippery and hot kitchen. "
Why are people obsessed with true "Damascus steel?" Modern steel is better and I'm pretty sure the word "Damascus" refers to the pattern, not the steel type. I mean it says VG-10 for fucks sake. Don't let the "not true Damascus steel" comments deter you from buying the knives. They have good reviews on Amazon and are cheaper here. For example, ZHEN Japanese VG-10 67 Layers Damascus Steel Chef Knife 8-inch Cutlery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CRVYJSY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_8aqeAbMV24QTH
I say go for it. I bought the santoku knife.
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if it can out perform, then why does the american bladesmith society require a damascus steel forging for their most intensive knife test? Not saying modern monosteel isnt great, 52100 is incredible stuff, but generally composites are more advanced materials and a damascus steel is like a composite.
http://www.americanbladesmith.com/uploads/file/Testing/MS%20Test%20FINAL%204-24-2010.pdf
theMZA
Performance is a very broad term. It could be cutting, edge stability, toughness or even corrosion resistance and so on. As we are talking about kitchen cutlery here I assume we are talking about kitchen work, which involved cutting a lot of soft material, and we ain't butchering much.
Factors affecting cutting performance in descending important: blade geometry, heat treatment, blade hardness and abrasion resistance. Here, we have a dilemma: do we want an easy to sharpen knife that takes a fine edge on a thin stock? Or a thicker blade requiring less maintenance, but cut worse? Only then we would consider the steel of choice. I prefer monosteel because when they are heat treated well, it is just so predictable, and overall performance is constant, yet my main concern - because I am lazy - is corrosion resistance. My Skyline would rust randomly. Some say a compromise would be laminated steel (much more consistent). Yet I still prefer monosteel because I am lazy. This is the performance I ask for, maybe not everyone. I admire people using carbon steel kitchen knife.
ABS is a test of the smith's skill, that include ductility as well - which is not really required if we are talking about 3" pocket knife. Again I prefer AEB-L over 52100 because 52100 would rust if you watch Waterworld with it. NASA replaced 52100 with Z-Finit/LC200N for ball bearing AFAIK,
To me one reason for buying Japanese knife is their knife-making history, particularly the technique borrowed from making katana. Could anyone educate me on the reasonableness of buying a Taiwanese made Japanese knife which doesn't bear such technical history?
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It doesn't if they both come out of factories using roughly identical techniques. I'm not an expert on knife making but what about handmade ones?
xiaoqiz
I'm actually waiting on two handmade knives, but they are far more expensive than most factory knives. I've already paid for one of them and it was over $2k. That being said neither of the makers have any family history of knife making, but they are both on their way to becoming masters of their craft if not masters already.
is the 6.5inch butcher knife actually a Chinese cleaver? On amazon, it says that you shouldn't chop bones with that knife.
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BorutosDad
It probably is cause of the VG-10. Bone is a relatively hard substance thats is challenging for knives. VG-10 is a hard metal which lends itself to a nice sharp edge and longer edge retention. That being said its also one of the more budget friendly hard metals when compared to blue steel and aogami super. While this isnt saying that VG-10 is bad i have just found it to be a little on the brittle side occasionally having small chips on the cutting edge.
Whith all that being said the VG-10 would easily cut through the bones but may endure some damage in the process. Just keep that in mind when using it on bone or other hard goods.
A more traditional bone cleaver might be made of a softer metal which could take the abuse better or just a better metal structure to deal with it.
BorutosDad
From what I can determine, this is a relatively thin light cleaver that would not be the best choice for large, hard vegetables even. Zhen does make a heavy cleaver in the same steel that is almost twice as thick of a blade. As someone else mentioned, VG10 hardened to over 60 RHC is not the best choice for chopping large bones though.
China made stuff?
darknight7
Taiwan made with materials imported from Japan.
Looks identical to Bokashi knives, $289 for a set of 6. Probably the same knife rebadged.
I flat out REFUSE to buy any knife calling itself "damascus", unless it says damascus "pattern" or similar. It's a BS marketing term at this point. NOTHING is true damascus at this point. And no, pattern welded IS NOT damascus.
Not to say Damascus strength is mythical anymore, many modern steels are stronger/better anyway.
True damascus was formed from a SINGLE billet and the patterns precipitated as hard carbide "lines" during working/heat treating. Some of the carbides were even true carbon nanotubes. That's how true damascus got its super hard edge. CARBIDES, not the steel itself.
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Krustyboomer
Carbides are part of "the steel itself." In ancient damascus, you had small levels of vanadium etc. to control grain growth, but the primary carbide is still just iron carbide aka cementite. Some of these ended up forming nanowires etc., but as far as I know it's very contested as to whether or not those structures are at all unique to damascus steel or other folded steels.
Fowler
It's the growth of EXCESS carbides of unique and large shapes that help define Damascus. The fact remains pattern welding IS NOT Damascus. Plain and simple. False advertising.
Yeah I was really hoping that it was a real Damascus blade. Been looking for a solid steel at a good price...
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Damn...
kincheng
Nothing wrong with pattern welded or san mai. I just want them to be true to what they are and not "fake" people out with marketing. My go-to chefs knife is san mai with hard carbon steel core, clad with stainless.
The description doesn't really make sense. Pattern welded steel requires two types of steel, and folding a modern alloy won't result in differential wear/corrosion, so either this is VG10 clad in Damascus (as is typical) or it's VG10 and some other steel, in which case what's the other steel?
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so does that mean, its still sort of 3 ply? or is it actually 33 layers of steel, folded into one layer???
MarcusK
I think you are mixing the two. San mai is the "final" method of constructing the blade. Hard inner core (usually carbon steel but not always) with nicer looking "taco" cladding, many times stainless for looks/ease of care. There could still be many layers within the billets that form the final san mai taco. In fact that is how you get the watermarks/nice patterns on the outside. That's the pattern welding part, NOT the san mai. The san mai only gets you the SINGLE line delineating the different billets.
Here you see a simple san mai with darker carbon steel core.
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Now contrast a san mai knife WITH pattern welding in outer billet (i.e. FAKE Damascus).

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