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d3Xt3r
20
May 14, 2018
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The title says Damascus Steel, but the pictures say Japanese Steel? So which one is it, Japanese or Damascus?
rac_sword2
15
May 14, 2018
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d3Xt3rReal Damascus steel process has been lost with time. Different methods exist to get steel to look like "Damascus" steel with layering. Point is, no one makes real "Damascus" steel anymore, just a similar look due to the layering of steel. This drop is for a nice set of VG-10 Japanese steel knives, made to look like Damascus steel. The description mentions the effect of layering on the edge. FYI the pic says "67 layers Damascus" right on top of "Japanese Steel".
Intoxinator
1
May 15, 2018
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rac_sword2Saw this documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP8PCkcBZU4
They claim that original Damascus is known as Wootz Steel. It gets its properties from impurities in the ore from a very particular mine near Damascus. Wootz does not get it texture from folding. Folded Damascus is an imitation of Wootz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel
They don't claim that Folded Damascus is inferior, merely that it's an imitation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP8PCkcBZU4
They claim that original Damascus is known as Wootz Steel. It gets its properties from impurities in the ore from a very particular mine near Damascus. Wootz does not get it texture from folding. Folded Damascus is an imitation of Wootz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel
They don't claim that Folded Damascus is inferior, merely that it's an imitation.
rac_sword2
15
May 17, 2018
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IntoxinatorI didn't say real Damascus was layered, but I did say that they don't make it anymore. I didn't know about the mine. Regardless of the mine, the process used before is lost which is what gave its "legendary" properties. The video claims they have it? I'm no expert so I cant say. Apparently no one else can produce it...
I read that same wiki page a while ago due to wondering the same thing as the poster. Third or fourth paragraph starts with: "The original method of producing Damascus steel is not known." The next one is about the "legend" of Damascus steel, but then goes on to say that studies on the metal have shown nanowires and carbon nanotubes in it which makes it hard and flexible (so maybe not a legend, but legendary. Specially for its time). Folded Damascus is inferior because it uses different metals and processes to achieve the look, but not the properties. So say someone uses VG-10, and another uses some other softer metal. Latter will be inferior in some characteristics (hardness, edge) but better (flexible, easy to sharpen) in others. Either, just imitating the look with folding/layers not the actual steel, as you mentioned, the look is from the impurities.
Thanks for digging that up, it was informative and I hadnt seen it before. Didnt know they called it "wootz".
I read that same wiki page a while ago due to wondering the same thing as the poster. Third or fourth paragraph starts with: "The original method of producing Damascus steel is not known." The next one is about the "legend" of Damascus steel, but then goes on to say that studies on the metal have shown nanowires and carbon nanotubes in it which makes it hard and flexible (so maybe not a legend, but legendary. Specially for its time). Folded Damascus is inferior because it uses different metals and processes to achieve the look, but not the properties. So say someone uses VG-10, and another uses some other softer metal. Latter will be inferior in some characteristics (hardness, edge) but better (flexible, easy to sharpen) in others. Either, just imitating the look with folding/layers not the actual steel, as you mentioned, the look is from the impurities.
Thanks for digging that up, it was informative and I hadnt seen it before. Didnt know they called it "wootz".
Intoxinator
1
May 17, 2018
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rac_sword2Yeah no worries. I watch Alec Steele make folded Damascus on YouTube a lot. Generally a billet of alternating grades of steel folded and twisted after forging. It needs different hardness steel and the pattern is brought out after etching. A really interesting process in itself and produces some beautiful results.
Jaggi
737
May 17, 2018
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IntoxinatorI haven't had time to watch the whole video yet, but from the little I have seen I don't think your summary of what is said in the video is correct.
Although the terms 'wootz' and 'damascus' are at times used rather loosely (and perhaps sometimes accidentally interchanged) they don't say that damascus steel is the same thing as wootz steel, but rather that damascus steel is made from wootz steel (which was already widely known). Wootz steel is the raw crucible steel and doesn't yet have the pattern that you get in finished damascus steel.
You also imply that damascus steel requires impurities that are found only in ores from a particular mine not far from Damascus. What was actually said was that production of damascus steel requires wootz steel with a particular impurity (Vanadium) and that to their surprise they found that the mine near Damascus was able to provide such ore (so it wasn't only wootz steel sourced from India that was capable of forming damascus steel).
Thanks for posting the video though, it's certainly compelling viewing for anyone who has an interest in the subject.
Although the terms 'wootz' and 'damascus' are at times used rather loosely (and perhaps sometimes accidentally interchanged) they don't say that damascus steel is the same thing as wootz steel, but rather that damascus steel is made from wootz steel (which was already widely known). Wootz steel is the raw crucible steel and doesn't yet have the pattern that you get in finished damascus steel.
You also imply that damascus steel requires impurities that are found only in ores from a particular mine not far from Damascus. What was actually said was that production of damascus steel requires wootz steel with a particular impurity (Vanadium) and that to their surprise they found that the mine near Damascus was able to provide such ore (so it wasn't only wootz steel sourced from India that was capable of forming damascus steel).
Thanks for posting the video though, it's certainly compelling viewing for anyone who has an interest in the subject.
Intoxinator
1
May 17, 2018
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JaggiMeh - I'm typing what I remember from a video I watched ages ago, on the go whilst I walk from my car to work. I don't mean to imply that anyone is wrong and I also don't claim to hold all the knowledge. Happy to share, although I'll be sure to make sure that I'm more accurate on my details in the future. :)
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