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mashto93
7
Dec 1, 2017
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Does anyone know if it's a good idea to pair this Zorloo ZuperDAC with a dedicated amp like Magni 2? I want to join the HD6xx drop but I only have the ZuperDAC, which I believe wouldn't be enough to drive those headphones. I'm planning to use it with a laptop. Thanks!
Dec 1, 2017
Redbaaron
231
Dec 3, 2017
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mashto93I have the same question, though I have the Magni 1.
Dec 3, 2017
rampantandroid
83
Dec 12, 2017
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RedbaaronShould work just fine. Its output is 1Vrms - some DACs are 1.2 or even 2Vrms - so with the Zorloo you'll just need to turn the volume up a little bit on the amp I think. Generally you should avoid turning the volume on a digital source down too far (and up too far on an amp due to clipping) - the Magni itself should have sufficient power for the HD650s though, assuming that the 6XX cans are the same 103dB/V as the 650s.
Dec 12, 2017
Redbaaron
231
Dec 12, 2017
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rampantandroidThanks! I've been using this pairing with the HiFiMan HE4XX and so far so good.
So it sounds like you're saying I should keep the volume on the ZuperDac down from full?
Dec 12, 2017
rampantandroid
83
Dec 12, 2017
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RedbaaronErr, I think I mistyped and said it backwards. It depends...(and not sure I'm able to explain this in a way that'll make absolute sense?)
See, the way digital volume control works is that it reduces the volume prior to it being made an analog signal. As you turn the volume down, you're lowering the actual bits - you're taking the loudest sounds and making them softer. You're truncating bits and you end up using only 12 or 14bits of the total 16 you had before). If you're doing this with a 16 bit signal, you quickly reduce your volume to the point where it's growing too close to the noise floor. That is to say, the noise floor does not decrease with the volume - it remains stationary.
So if you have a sound that is moderately soft and you turn the volume down, you might lower that soft sound to the point that it is indistinguishable from noise. You mitigate this by taking a 16 bit signal, upsampling it to 24bit and doing the volume control with 24bit depth (or taking a 24bit signal and upsampling to 32bit to do volume control.) Even so though, ESS (who makes the DAC and Amp chips in the ZuperDAC and are well known) are quick to point out that a good analog volume control will be better than a digital volume control.
The OTHER problem is of course clipping of the analog source. If you have a loud sound, it might require a higher voltage than the analog section can output. Aka, if a cymbal clash requires 4Vpp, but your amp can only manage 3Vpp, you'll get clipping - the amp will be maxed out.
tl;dr: as long as the volume control is done at a high even bit depth, it won't matter. Otherwise, volume should be pegged at full (this is how the dragonfly amps work. If you're using it as a DAC and not an amp, you set the volume to 100%). From looking up info on the ESS chip Zorloo is using, it appears that the volume control is done after upsampling to 32bit, mitigating any of the truncation concerns. This being the case, you should probably just set the volume to 50% and leave it there. Doing this will prevent you from lowering the softest sounds too far *and also* prevent the analog components from being maxed out.
Hope that made some amount of sense. Feel free to google something like "bit perfect volume", "audio clipping" and "double amping" (aka, Zuperdac amplifier connected to Magni amplifier) to see what I'm talking about.
Dec 12, 2017
mashto93
7
Dec 13, 2017
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rampantandroidThank you so much for your response! This is a good starting point for me to research the things you explained.
Dec 13, 2017
JiveAmpersand
10
Dec 13, 2017
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mashto93I'd echo rampantandroid. I am doing this same thing with the Zorloo but with an o2 amp, and it works great. I set the volume on the Zorloo at 50% and control the volume on the amp from there and there is no distortion to speak of.
Dec 13, 2017
Redbaaron
231
Dec 13, 2017
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rampantandroidHey thanks for taking the time to explain! I did some more research, and found some mentions that the device will use line level out when using max system volume. That would be the best case, right?
Dec 13, 2017
rampantandroid
83
Dec 13, 2017
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RedbaaronCorrect. Just remember to start with your Magni at the LOWEST volume possible and go upwards...and don't forget you've got the DAC pegged at max level and plug headphones directly into it. :)
Dec 13, 2017
Redbaaron
231
Dec 14, 2017
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rampantandroidRoger that. :-D
@JiveAmpersand @mashto93 Putting the ZuperDAC at 100% makes it a line out signal, bypassing the ZuperDAC's amp. After finally getting a chance to listen today, I wanted to report back that I am getting a noticeably fuller sound. (Amped with the Magni 1 and listening on the HiFiMan HE 4XX.)
Dec 14, 2017
mashto93
7
Dec 14, 2017
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RedbaaronThanks for sharing! Could you please explain the procedure and the order in which you connect the components and apply the settings?
Dec 14, 2017
Redbaaron
231
Dec 14, 2017
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mashto93Sure thing. Just plug it into your computer as you normally would. Set your media player volume to max. Turn the windows or Mac volume all the way to max (this is what will tell the ZuperDAC to bypass its internal amp). Then use your external amp to control sound level. Pretty straightforward.
Earlier I hadn't realized the ZuperDAC could do that, and that's where @rampantandroid 's info above would have helped most.
Dec 14, 2017
JiveAmpersand
10
Dec 14, 2017
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RedbaaronThanks! I didn't know it could do that either and went with 50% to not put strain on the amp chip in the Zuperdac. Can you tell me where you found that info? It is surprisingly hard to find decent specs or info on this thing.
Dec 14, 2017
Redbaaron
231
Dec 14, 2017
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JiveAmpersandYeah tell me about it! I did some research to figure out if the amp could bypassed, and saw a mention that the Dragonfly and other similar devices do it by maxing the volume. Then I also saw it listed very briefly in the Indiegogo page as well as on the Zorloo site product description. I am only inferring the maxed volume technique actually provides a true line out, and admittedly the description below is a little cryptic. When looking back for sources, I saw some people say otherwise, but no real evidence given. Regardless I do notice a difference in clarity and presence.
From the Zorloo website under the last section: "ZuperDAC uses the latest ESS ES9601 headphone driver. It delivers unmatched performance for audio headphone or line-out output."
Dec 14, 2017
Redbaaron
231
Dec 14, 2017
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Dec 14, 2017
JiveAmpersand
10
Dec 14, 2017
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RedbaaronThanks for that. As it is talking about the amp chip when it talks about line out, I read it to say that even at 100% it does not bypass the amp circuitry. I agree that there is noticeably more clarity when cranked, so ill be going that way all the same now. It produces more heat, but not enough that I am concerned. If i were running it off a battery device I might compromise for the increase in playtime though. It is an exceptional device either way.
Dec 14, 2017
Redbaaron
231
Dec 16, 2017
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JiveAmpersandYes, the more I go back and read, the more inconclusive it seems. Oh well, I still think it's a nice little device for the price.
Dec 16, 2017
mashto93
7
Feb 21, 2018
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Redbaaron@rampantandroid @Redbaaron @JiveAmpersand Received my Magni 3 today, works like charm with ZuperDAC, thank you everyone for your input! Listening through Pinnacle PX right now, sounds amazing... Can't wait for HD6xx in March.
Feb 21, 2018
sucram65
52
May 1, 2018
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RedbaaronI'm using a ZuperDAC with a Bravo 2 amp at work. I found that setting output to 75%-100% works well with the amp. Though there is more fullness at 100%. There is some variation with headphones though. 100% seems almost too high for my BD DT 770 Pro's. Those sound good at 75%. Whereas 100% works well for my Hifiman HE-560's. Likewise this combo is driving my MD HD6xx's really well also. Much more output than though my Dragonfly Red. It sounds clean also. No complaints so far about the quality of the ZuperDAC from me. Time will tell though as I have only now started using it with any frequency. I've had it for a little over 5 months now.
May 1, 2018
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