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Showing 1 of 8 conversations about:
GUTB
238
Jan 23, 2017
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A community member
Jan 24, 2017
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GUTBLet's be real here the original post is from someone new to audiophile you can't expect them to go out and buy a focal utopia to test the waters. You say bad choice and give no other options very constructive.
GUTB
238
Jan 24, 2017
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Well I own the Utopias, and I can confirm that they are a bad value and definitely not worth the 2-3x price premium over other hi-fi headphones. So I would never recommend those to an audiophile that doesn't have the ability to easily spend that kind of money.
If spending time in mid-fi is inevitable, I recommend the TH-X00 as a much better headphone. The 400S is also a solid choice.
The amp and DAC are very entry level but I also don't think there are any reasonable upgrades in that price range.
If spending time in mid-fi is inevitable, I recommend the TH-X00 as a much better headphone. The 400S is also a solid choice.
The amp and DAC are very entry level but I also don't think there are any reasonable upgrades in that price range.
Hypnotize91
18
Jan 24, 2017
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GUTB"A poor choice of headphones", and still people love them. It's all about taste :)
ElectronicVices
2937
Jan 25, 2017
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GUTBYour posts have an extremely arrogant and negative tone... comments like yours are why audiophile circles are seen as elitist and snobby. Also, why I prefer to refer to myself as an enthusiast not an audiophile. Have you picked up those stupid brass-footed isolation blocks from Mapleshade yet? ...because you sure seem to head down that path. The Wyrd, Jitterbug and iFi purifers, in what little effect they actually have on sound quality, will yield maximum benefit when your DAC is powered by the usb. As this poster chose an uber stack you will recognize that is includes a linear PSU walllwart and minimal power draw is present on the usb line. Any DAC that does not draw power from the USB will see next to zero benefit from these forms of "audio accessories." Your escalation to nothing but summit-fi headphones (yes I own a few myself, along with about a new Honda Civics worth of audio gear) and dismissal of one of the most successful headphones of all time, strongly indicates minimal real world understanding/experience. If you feel the need to assess the value of other peoples choices of what to spend their money on I suggest you take a very strong look at your own motivations regarding making such inflammatory posts. From an amateur profiler's point of view it sure looks like overcompensation and self loathing to me...
To the OP - forget everything this person said and enjoy your new gear. It will be a tremendous increase in fidelity over PC audio and a gaming headset... treasure it as the law of diminishing returns is in full effect from here on in... you will never experience that level of improvement again.
To the OP - forget everything this person said and enjoy your new gear. It will be a tremendous increase in fidelity over PC audio and a gaming headset... treasure it as the law of diminishing returns is in full effect from here on in... you will never experience that level of improvement again.
GUTB
238
Jan 25, 2017
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ElectronicVicesIf you have equipment at the value you claim, then you'd know that diminishing returns settles in at the $1,000 mark for headphones, around $1,500 for DACs and amps. There are high value outliers of course.
The comment about DAC power is false. Even if the DAC doesnt rely on the USB for power, it still needs to be in contact with the 5V line on the USB, which introduces dirty power noise. Even where the DAC has galvanic isolation on the input the noise isn't stopped completely. The difference a USB isolator/filter makes isn't subtle.
As audiophiles we obsess over the addiction to the ever-increasing standard for audio quality. There are plenty of mass-consumer areas of the internet that push lo- and mid-f sound. And let's be real -- you are NOT plugging an HD650 into your 5 figures system.
I'm not at the point of needing vibration control systems -- but when/if I am, I'd probably look at the SS footers and maybe something like Mapleshade for the shelving.
The comment about DAC power is false. Even if the DAC doesnt rely on the USB for power, it still needs to be in contact with the 5V line on the USB, which introduces dirty power noise. Even where the DAC has galvanic isolation on the input the noise isn't stopped completely. The difference a USB isolator/filter makes isn't subtle.
As audiophiles we obsess over the addiction to the ever-increasing standard for audio quality. There are plenty of mass-consumer areas of the internet that push lo- and mid-f sound. And let's be real -- you are NOT plugging an HD650 into your 5 figures system.
I'm not at the point of needing vibration control systems -- but when/if I am, I'd probably look at the SS footers and maybe something like Mapleshade for the shelving.
ElectronicVices
2937
Jan 25, 2017
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GUTBThe HD650 started me down this path and I still consider it to be one of the best "session" headphones of all time. It's comfortable, works with damn near all genres and nothing about it's sound signature is fatiguing. Yes there are people that use an HD650 with far more expensive gear than mine. I have two tubes in my amp right now that cost more than an Uberstack but that is NOT for everyone. Hell most people I've met can barely tell the difference between tubes and solid state. I've been in this game since before the Beats explosion. I don't purport that the HD650 is the be-all end all of headphones, what it most certainly is NOT is a " poor choice of headphones." The TH900, while a wonderful headphone, is so far beyond the point of diminishing returns it's comical. It's a $600 headphone with a $600 hand finished Japanese paint job. I don't begrudge those that get enjoyment out of it but seeing it and other summit-fi brethren as a "requirement" to fully enjoy one's music is quite possibly one of the more ridiculous statements I've heard in a while... that includes the Tweets from the Twit.
mag3472
4
Jan 25, 2017
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GUTBDo you have some Grey Poupon because I need some for my caviar love. I can send Jeeves to pick it up in the phantom. Lol he is new and the 650's are still the highest recommended headphones out. God so arrogant! Electronic vices has a point. Next time don't give your opinion or rethink it. If you feel you need to tell people what you have or how much you know don't. The audiophile community does not need arrogance. We are here to help one steep at a time, to find out what a new guy is looking into investing and give him the best choices for the Buck. Not oh that's all you can afford well I have $10,000 eqequipment, blah blah. Just be helpful! That's all.
GUTB
238
Jan 26, 2017
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mag3472Actually, I'm a pretty modest / cheap audiophile. Sure, I bought $4,000 headphones -- but that's the most expensive piece of gear I own by a large margin.
Custom built audio PC using old parts and a Paul Pang v3 USB card: $800 Gustard X20U DAC: $800 Schiit Mjolnir 2 + NOS tubes: $1,100 Supra USB cable: $60 Audio Sensibility Statement SE interconnects: $300 LKS USB-100 + linear PSU: $350 Furutech GTX-D NCF(R): $260 Audio Sensibility Testament AC cable: $300 Lessloss Original AC cable: $600
People somehow find thousands of dollars for home theatre setups, but audio? Everything is just too far out of people's budgets, and they get into online communities to support each other on their mid-fi and shovel-ware mass consumer electronics and tell one another about how great they are.
Custom built audio PC using old parts and a Paul Pang v3 USB card: $800 Gustard X20U DAC: $800 Schiit Mjolnir 2 + NOS tubes: $1,100 Supra USB cable: $60 Audio Sensibility Statement SE interconnects: $300 LKS USB-100 + linear PSU: $350 Furutech GTX-D NCF(R): $260 Audio Sensibility Testament AC cable: $300 Lessloss Original AC cable: $600
People somehow find thousands of dollars for home theatre setups, but audio? Everything is just too far out of people's budgets, and they get into online communities to support each other on their mid-fi and shovel-ware mass consumer electronics and tell one another about how great they are.
A community member
Jan 26, 2017
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GUTBSo what your saying is because something is cheaper it's classed as mid-fi and shovelware the hd650 was flagship it's not like it was an entry level product. Headphones don't get magically worse once a new model comes out. I can see your not a person to really have this discussion with all I see is snobbery the fact you keep saying mid-fi backs that up.
GUTB
238
Jan 26, 2017
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The HD600 was hi-fi....20 years ago. 20 years ago, DVDs were hi-definition. Times change. The HD800 was released 9 years ago that complately destroyed the HD600; shortly afterwards, high-end planars hit the market and hi-fi was re-defined. In the last several years, ultra high-end dynamics have shown up -- basically, technology has left the HD600/650 behind.
The unfortunate side-effect of the bar being raised is cost going way up. The HD800 has to built by a specialized production team, it isn't made from the standard factory line with their other headphones. Other manufacturers go through even more strenuous small batch production processes to make thier hi-fi products.
The unfortunate side-effect of the bar being raised is cost going way up. The HD800 has to built by a specialized production team, it isn't made from the standard factory line with their other headphones. Other manufacturers go through even more strenuous small batch production processes to make thier hi-fi products.
A community member
Jan 26, 2017
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GUTBSo in your words the hd600 and hd650 are now low fi because mid fi is not a fidelity term it's just some audiophile talk in regards to price same with summit-fi. Television have evolved much faster than headphones in recent years you can't compare the two. So in another 10 years when the hd800 is not flagship it will all of a sudden become lo-fi OK then.
A community member
Jan 26, 2017
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mag3472Yeah it's my final message to him I'm not usually the kind of person to drop in on stuff like this but sometimes it just needs to be done. We all move on and it's all good eh.
Dubharmonic
90
Jan 26, 2017
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GUTBDon’t buy so much into the hype. The HD600 is still a solid option without any glaring flaws. The HD800 on the other hand has a treble peak so brutal that most people can’t stand to listen to it for long periods of time.
Hifi is all about accuracy. When the new ‘flagship’ takes a step back in accuracy, it’s not leaving the previous headphone behind.
All of this aside, if you really were shooting for hifi you’d have a Stax rig. They’re still the most accurate by a decent margin.
Hifi is all about accuracy. When the new ‘flagship’ takes a step back in accuracy, it’s not leaving the previous headphone behind.
All of this aside, if you really were shooting for hifi you’d have a Stax rig. They’re still the most accurate by a decent margin.
GUTB
238
Jan 26, 2017
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DubharmonicIf we just focus on technical aspects then I can agree that they are solid mid-fi headphones -- good resolution, imaging, dynamics, etc. In terms of macro-detail retrieval they are perhaps up there with hi-fi headphones. They're a little slow but nothing horrible. Vieled but no more so than any other mid-fi. Micro-details and dynamics, lightning speed, is the realm of hi-fi (or summit-fi, ultra high end, whatever term you perfer).
But the problem is how boring and un-euphonic they are. When I had the HD600 they were horrible; they made it so that I actually lost interest in music....I couldn't be bothered to even put them on my head. Not even my lo-fi headphones (K553, HD668B) managed to destroy my interest in music.
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But the problem is how boring and un-euphonic they are. When I had the HD600 they were horrible; they made it so that I actually lost interest in music....I couldn't be bothered to even put them on my head. Not even my lo-fi headphones (K553, HD668B) managed to destroy my interest in music.
.
Dubharmonic
90
Jan 26, 2017
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GUTBDon’t try to blend opinions and measurements! This thread is #alternativefacts of the headphone world.
GUTB
238
Feb 13, 2017
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PhillayWell, they are looking for knowledge from experienced audiophiles I try to offer help. If they are just looking for group-think self-validation than I wouldn't expect them to care. There are a lot of people who want to believe that their mid-fi headphones are at, or close, to the peak of headphone performance -- simply because that is as much as they are willing to spend for whatever reason (have-nothing students generally speaking). I can't afford Raidho speakers but you won't find me pretending I have just as good and seeking groups online to validate my wrong belief.
mag3472
4
Feb 13, 2017
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GUTBLol, not true, read his original post. He is asking how to get the best experience off the headphones! That's it, he said "I just got the HD 650. He went on to explain about the DAC, then you stated poor choice of headphones, not what you have or why they are bad. You can see what he has and what he spent so from there you can see what his budget is this is where the community steps in and helps. Not to criticize but to help, not to tell him how much you spend and how much you can afford! That's the truth, help that's it just help.
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The Schiit stack mentioned is very entry level in terms of sound quality, but still much better than what your motherboard or soundcard can put out.
If you're using USB, an isolator/filter is mandatory. Schiit Wyrd, AudioQuest Jitterbug, iFi purifiers, Uptone REGEN, etc and so on.
If you're using toslink, you must get premium toslink cable, like a quartz glass cable or perhaps a high-grade plastic core cable.