Nov 17, 2018249 views

Advice Needed: HD 58x or HE4xx?


Looking for an open back headphone with primarily great bass extension and sound clarity. Currently own a Fulla 2 Amp/DAC which I don't think would have a problem in driving any of these two picks. Use would primarily be for modern music listening (EDM, Pop, Rap, Rock, Alternative etc.) as well as FPS gaming. I do not listen to Jazz and Classical music. Which of these two would you recommend and why?
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That is a very low-end amp and DAC. If you're okay with the entry level sound, go for a HD 58x. A HE4xx will require to at least spend money on a better amp/dac.
GUTB
I plan to upgrade to a separate amp and dac in the near future and would prefer to future proof my headphone purchase. Why should I get the HE4xx?
Silent85
Neither of these headphones will become obsolete with a purchase of a new DAC or amp. It's all about which you like better. That being said, this is a tricky question to answer, especially since we can't be sure about your experience with headphones (and plus we have to consider the joys of subjectivity in audio). In my experience, the HE-4XX is pretty balanced in frequency response (and does have some of that phat planar bass extension), but can have a plastic-like timbre in the mids and treble which can make voices sound indistinct. I'm especially not enamored by the way acoustic instruments were presented. I have never heard the HD 58X, but I do have the HD 6XX and can tell you that I like the non-fatiguing (but not the most accurate) tonality and slightly warm tone, without losing much clarity in the treble. From what I see from other reviews and impressions, both the 58X and 6XX lack the bass extension in the lows. tl;dr, I recommend the HE-4XX if bass extension is more important, and the HD 58X if clarity is more important. Either headphone is a good choice.
I compared silver box silver driver HD650 to Edition X mk2,HE400i,HE400S and HD660S to Sundara and HE 560.I also heard newest black box silver driver HD650 and HD600. I didnt heard Hifiman HE 1000 but so far,I would take any Sennheiser HD 6.. headphone over any Hifiman,all the Hifiman headphones had less detail and less smooth frequency response,Edition X in particular had ugliest treble I ever heard,extremly peaky,distorted and ringing,the Sundara was much better but the the frequency response still sounded like like it had holes and peaks. At first the Hifiman have illusion of good detail becose they are so bright,but I quickly realized its just illusion,its fake "detail" caused by being too bright and having distorted comb filter like frequency response.The soundstage is wider on Hifimans but the imaging is garbage,I cant tell position of sounds,you get little more width,but that width is filled by very imprecise imaging,more quantity,trash quality. HD650 on other hand is little less wide but imaging is is very good,its truly exciting and entertaining hearing as the sounds move inside the soundstage,how they change position,how the sounds are comming at you from different positions,sure its less wide but the imaging is far superior. The Hifimans have flatter,less distorted,more extended bass,but appart from that,the Sennheiser are far better,once you hear that smooth,hole free,ringing free,distortion free mids and highs and that precise imaging,you wont care about inferior bass. Sennheisers are far lighter and more comfortable,the clamp is too strong out of the the box though.
Neubrineo
Sorry, I get the exact opposite to your findings but too each, their own! I love the 650's, I really do! But I find my Edition X's are a good bit better in most regards. But this is like comparing apples to oranges for me! (Price wise) Both headphones still a lot of headphone, in fact the 650's, NH's and Edition X's round out my daily drivers. But there is something about that sweet mid-range by Sennheiser which gets me every time I listen to the 600/650's and the fact they scale so well to different Dac/Amp's. @Neubrineo - Just off topic but what did you think of the He-560 compared to the rest of the 4xx series? And was the Sundara close to any of these?
Volly
I am not native english speaker but the word that instantly popped in my mind when you asked me to describe how I feel about HE 560 is "meh".I didnt compare the headphones too much,I dislike their sound so much I put the down after minute or two they all bore me except Edition X mkii which was like skynet robot drilling into my brain with ultrasonic scalpel. The edition X had worst treble I ever heard in my life,some headphones have frequency response problems,specificaly sharp peaks and holes,some have resonance problems... ringing! Others have distortion problems,the Edition X had it all in treble.No headphone is perfect,even new HD650 have peak from 11-15KHz,I can enjoy imperfect headphone but Edition X,thats just ridiculous,the treble had such a nasty,very high,very sharp peak that was both ringing strongly and very distorted at the same time,it stuck out like sore thumb,I was not able to ignore it even for second. It had little wider soundstage and little better comfort than HE400i,560 & Sundara but its treble was simply 100% pure ,multiply filtered,distilled cancer.Before,I used to think HD800 was most harsh treble in world of high end headphones,I was very wrong.I read so much good thing about it,I was extremly dissapointed. One thing that HE 560,Edition X mkii and Sundara did well was bass,it was flat and extended,very nice,I liked that.I also liked that they all had bigger space for ears in the earpads,comfort was good in HE 560 and Edition X,weight no problem,headband works fine,earpads not itchy and space was good,I have 6.2mm high ears.The edition X had most space,least ear touching but I found the shape of the cups and pads little too long verticaly,also the pads were tiny bit too thin,I liked the Sundara pads more,but Sundara had less space inside them. Now comes the revelation,I strongly prefered the HE400i to all the other Hifimans,the treble was least problematic,its only Hifiman headphone I enjoyed.The pads were lesser quality than Sundara,but it was light comfortable and bass,mids and highs had pleasing balance to them,I enjoy these without mods or EQ. HE400i didnt had Hd650 resolution or the smoothness of frequency response,there were dips and hills in FR,but they sounded like small,smoothly transitioning peaks and holes,no audible distortion or ringing,I actually liked them,not as much as HD600/650 but alot more than Edition X or even Sundara. In my opinion Hifiman headphones have zero relationship between price and sound quality,I would rather buy HE400i even if Edition X or Sundara was cheaper.It wasnt neutral,but its signature sound was pleasing and fun.The pads were kind of cheap and little itchy feeling,would definately buy some better pads. Ohh and the 400s,it sounded second best,but it was like weak,cheap,downgraded HE400i,nothing much different,just the frequency response gave it limp wristed weak thin sound,otherwise its same thing as 400i.Someome might like that sort of sound,not me,but it didnt had any obvious problem,it wasnt neuron ablating pulse laser of death like Edition X.
I own both. At first the 58X were my favorite cans that I own; the bass and vocals just sound very good. Vocals do sound slightly airy, but that's not a problem. After months of owning them, I now prefer my 4XX over all my cans. They are just so comfortable, and the soundstage is incredible, because you don't lose a lot of detail. It's such a soothing sound signature. The bass is there on the 4XX, but not like the 58X. One word of advice, to get the full potential of the 4XX you'll need an amp. The 58X are much easier to drive, but they do scale well. It's hard to recommend one over the other because they each sound so different. @Volly offered great advice and I agree with him, but I understand you can only choose one.
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Excellent points throughout. I thought when in came to comparing the low end frequencies of these two headphones, one had to be objectively better. Obviously, that's not the case and it's best hear them both before deciding on which to purchase.
Well said! :)
Of the two, I much prefer the HD58X over the HE4XX. The HE4XX just sounds too flat - the low end, punch, body, and tone of the HD58X are much more to my preference. Honestly, am not a fan of most planars - the ONLY planar I love is the Argon Mk3 as it doesn't really sound like any kind of a typical planar. The HD58X works very well for gaming... it has a great ability to precisely locate sounds in 3D space. Have not used an HE4XX for any type of gaming.
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Silent85
for me the options are clarity and definition Hd58x or more bass and soundstage he4x . when listing to most music i prefer my hd58x when listen to bass heavy music or gaming my he4xx for width of soundstage. (and check out youtube for the comparisons for the hd58x vs hd6xx with mods of course). youtubers chuckolatte , Z Reviews or Valour https://youtu.be/PibGrUL_v_U
If you’re looking for rumble, you need presence in about the sub-40hz range. If you need punch, a boost from there to about 80hz. Anything more, you start hearing muuuuuud. Check out independent frequency response charts for both cans. The Meze is a bit loose, but the sound quality. I don’t even need tubes for them. I sold the Neos truth be told, but I regret it. I got my eyes on some Classics with the old pads.
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Are you saying this response curve is representing the HE4XX?? Your legend is saying otherwise. I'm already familiar with the frequency response curves on the respective pages of both headphones, but I'm not sure if they can be compared against each other. See below:
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HD 58x being sold now is the solid line (Ignore prototype).
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HE4xx curve. Clearly, the HD 58x has the better bass response if the two graphs CAN be superimposed but I'm not sure if they can, hence the reason for this post :S
Silent85
Corrected using inner fidelity. My phone wouldn’t post the proper pictures or order. The quality of the bass in the H4XX is tighter to my ears, the quality is there. The problem is the roll off which can be rectified with a few mods. The HD58X does tilt downward from the mids to treble and I hear it. Owning both, the 58X has the extension, but my god the vocals are sweet. Im just addicted to the clarity and soundstage of the 4XX I know you can only choose 1 I have both and I love them both, can’t part with either, though I tend to game, mix, and chill on the 4XX, that’s just preference. If you lived anywhere nearby, I’d let you AB them anytime. I hear the HD58X is similar to the 660s and the HE4XX uses the same driver as the 400i. Can you audition any of their doppelgängers at a store nearby?
Grab both and sell the other but you'd probably end up keeping both! Great starter can's, which will take you along way down the track! :D
Volly
Out of the question. My budget only allows for one or the other, so I'll most likely go with the one that has the stronger bass response.
I have both of those headphones in my apartment. I recommend the HD58X because it actually has bass, unlike the HE4XX. The build quality of the HD58X is much better than the HE4XX. The Sennheisers are lighter than the Hifiman. The analytical sound and clarity of the HD58X is unreal for the price.
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Which one is better? I mean can you be more descriptive about differences.
RahulSangal
I think there’s plenty of material out there on YouTube, Reddit, Forums, and here. Do you have something a little more descriptive in mind to talk about, like the OP’s bass inquiry? I believe another member addressed build, some of us put down some frequency response graphs, and all of us provided subjective listening experiences. Use scenarios might help too. For instance, I do use both headphones for music production and checking mixes, BUT I use the HE4XX for dense EDM and bass clarity due it’s speed and short decay. The HD58X is not necessarily slow by any means, but I use it to see what my sub bass is doing. Both are good for critical listening, but the above best describes my experience with respect to the OP’s question of bass. Also, like others have said about Sennheiser cans, they do a damn fine job with vocals. Especially female vocals. I like a wide range of music, so if say, I’m listening to Jasmine Thompson, Adele, Emma Hewitt, Etta James, or anything opera, I grab the HD58X. Imaging is great, but soundstage is narrower than the HE4XX. The HE4XX I use for songs that sound congested on other cans because it has good separation, and yet sounds wider, is fast, has a sound sig that lately keeps me picking it up over the HD58X. But, for you and the OP, it’s hard to do a blind buy, or should I say deaf buy, without listening to either can first. What Sennheiser did with the HD58X for its price is phenomenal. I bring it into the local Yodabashi Camera sometimes to compare it to the HD600, HD650, and HD660s. For pleasure, I’m a fan of the 650 and critical listening (though a bit shouty), I’m a fan of the 600. The 58X does sound similar to the 660s, where as the 58X has more present treble and is sometimes harsh, it is a bit airier and not so dark. Imaging. Ahhhhhhhh. Immersion. Ahhhhh. With some well recorded songs, when I close my eyes, and turn the knob, I feel like I’m in the recording booth with the singer.