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rastus
1391
Nov 20, 2018
The Focal Elex is the best entry-level set of cans; instead of spending $500+ on multiple cans, trying to get to the sound you are searching for, but it remains elusive, though you know it's there... spend the extra $199 now, essentially for a set of entry-level cans, rather than a total of $1,199+ over a year± period, waiting to hear the sound... $699 done, w/o all the extra hassle and expense...
JonnyModena
225
Nov 21, 2018
rastusWhile most love the Elex, I would recommend that the OP listen to them before spending that much money on them (or any set, for that matter). There is no set of cans that pleases every listener.
rastus
1391
Nov 21, 2018
JonnyModenaOf course, we simply opine here based on our experiences, understandings and views. We had one fellow here who is going to a shop in Japan that has 3,000 cans to try, most of us do not have this luxury,,, though even he is asking for opinions again... how do you evaluate 3,000 cans ... :0 My advice was also a bit of tongue-in-cheek, but with some real truth in it;)
JonnyModena
225
Nov 21, 2018
rastusHa! I couldn't tell you! I don't know where i would end... but i have a good idea where i would start. And it wouldn't the Focal Utopia or HFM Shangri La Sr... because i suspect if you started with those, the experience with lesser cans may be ruined before it starts lol
Keth
760
Nov 21, 2018
rastusThe issue is calling $700 headphones "entry level" without addressing the next $500 you need to spend on a Dac and Amp to get them sounding like $700 headphones. And as I'm finding out, selecting an amp isn't easy, as no one seems to provide good amperage numbers, just watts. The new THX 789 is a great example, very high wattage that looks great on paper, but not enough amperage for something like T50-RP mods, or 600ohm Beyers. Where as the Audio GD R2R 11 will power them happily with lower output numbers on the spec sheet.
Heefty
1387
Nov 21, 2018
KethV=I*R P=V*I You can figure it out from there. The standard is to post power numbers. You can discern your V and I capacity based on the different power ratings at different impedance. FYI's: 600 Ω Beyers take a lot of V to drive, not a lot of I, and the THX 789 can drive the T50rp to ~119 dB SPL peak using the SE output. Do you really need them louder?
Keth
760
Nov 21, 2018
HeeftyThe issue with the T50's is that they need a lot of current to get the bass response that they're capable of. Can you power them off a Gagni 3? Sure, but they sound way better on an BasX A-100, or other high current amp.
rastus
1391
Nov 21, 2018
KethNot preaching anything I do not believe in, or practice, a bit... I have been trying to make pragmatic steps, on a budget, while trying to skip ahead to save money/time/disappointment(s). I was ready to hit the button for HD6XX, and almost to the min. the HD700's dropped on MD at $400, I jumped a step to the 700, this allowed me to understand what the Elex was going to offer, went there - a very nice place. DAC's were sort'a a two-step, got a $75 ChiFi BT unit for the kitchen setup, still have that, it allowed me to see that native DSD was where I wanted to go. Got a Korg 100 DAC cheap for $150 and using Audiogate heard native DSD with the HD700's and a budget modded ChiFi 6V6 tube amp. A true taste of audio nirvana,, Further onward... looked at what Totaldac et. al. were doing in R-2R,, jumped ahead into the great R-2R unknown (for me) and got a $700 Denafrips Ares, the "low-end of the hi-end" in native DSD capable R-2R, otherwise would have bought the MD Airist R-2R. For me, just me, just sharing here... this has been an accelerated journey, enabled by input from here on MD interactively, as well al reading on all the other audio sites. Only post here as I view the other sites as vulture attack centers for actual or perceived newbies, don't have the time, and only a few ad hominum here,, so mostly ok. A side diversion from cans, that was wonderfully serendipitous, was getting a (used, budget;) 300B SET amp that had a cap set external power bank for speakers. I plugged the Elex into this thing and holy crap... I understood fully what having real available power overhead could provide. Why I have been holding off on a SS amp, watching and learning here & elsewhere,, which is taking me towards the Audio-gd HE-9. I will go at it again here, always interesting and fun: MD Arist R-2R DAC when it drops again / MD THX amp / HD6xx cans / Audivarna player software and get some quality FLAC or DSD and you are basically entering bliss. Got more money get the CTH to try tube flavor, but put a nice NOS tube in it or you will shortchange yourself, not an SET or OTL, but nice. Another beginner/jump ahead set: HD6XX / Audio-gd NFB-11.28 / Audivarna
Heefty
1387
Nov 21, 2018
KethYou're not listening to what I'm saying, are you? The numbers speak for themselves. The SE output on the 789 can drive sufficient current to drive T50's, unless Fostex published efficiency numbers for them that are way off. It would not be able to reach 119dB SPL otherwise. I suppose it might not meet your preferences for frequency response, but that doesn't mean the amp can't drive them. A-100 = 250mW/Channel @ 47Ω (source) 789 = 1700mW/Channel @ 32Ω (source) So since P=R*I^2 A-100 Iout @ 47Ω: sqrt(0.25/47) = 73mA output @47Ω 789 Iout @ 32Ω: sqrt(1.7/32) = 230mA @ 32Ω And since V=I*R A-100 Vout @ 47Ω: 0.073 * 47 = 3.43V 789Vout @ 32Ω: 0.23 * 32 = 7.38V And since I=V/R A-100 Iout @ 50Ω: 3.43/50 = 69mA 789 Iout @ 50Ω: 7.38/50 = 148mA Based on some quick and dirty math (I would go up for 789 much more than A-100 if I did a good job on the modeling since the difference in the rated impedance is so much lower), it looks like the 789 is the clear winner to me, for current output, unless you're flipping the internal jumper to connect the speaker amp to the headphone output. Why you need additional current when you can already drive to 119dB SPL is still beyond me though.
Keth
760
Nov 21, 2018
HeeftySo apparently your stance is as long as it makes sound that's good enough, while ignoring the quality of the sound and frequency response produced. With that in mind there's no reason to continue. I can't imagine anyone buying the A-100 and leaving the jumpers in place, there'd be no point.
Heefty
1387
Nov 21, 2018
KethNo, my stance is that you're not going to get any more out of this specific set of cans by having more capacity to drive current through them than you will from the amp you're disparaging can drive. It's as simple as that. Any difference that you're hearing is a non-linear frequency response, not a result of differences in output current, unless Fostex's own numbers are very far off from reality. Moar Current != Moar Bass
HeeftyI can't speak for the T50 (yet, I have a T60 inbound in the mail), but I can confirm that the slightly less powered 788 SE output on the Monolith THX Desktop is enough to drive my Beyer 880 600 ohms to absolute deafening levels, even on high dynamic classical recordings. I still had 15 dB before max, and the level was uncomfortable. The 789 in the MD amp outputs even more power as memory serves. . .
Heefty
1387
Nov 22, 2018
GiantHeadphoneSquidIt's not hard to get most any cans to deafening levels with even a weak amp, but to cover your signal peaks, you'll also need plenty of overhead beyond what you can cover with rms. That being said, if you're listening at responsible levels on 789, you'll probably never notice the clipped peaks on 600ohm Beyers. I certainly notice them on my 300ohm Senns though. Balanced is the only way to go for those.
HeeftyThese aren't 'most any cans' they are 600 ohm SE Beyer 880s. And yes, many otherwise very capable amps (that drive my Senn 600/650 quite well for reference) simply can't quite muster pleasing volumes from the Beyer 600s. They were very deliberately the first SE cans I tried on it today. I can't speak for the 789, but the SE output of the 788 is very capable of driving these. I am quite familiar with the concept of RMS vs. Peak. For reference, I listened to modern electronic an additional 15-20 dB down from that level. My hearing is quite good, I don't listen to music as loudly as my wife or my friends do, but even I max out my 600 ohm beyers on several of my devices. . . not an issue for the 788, even via the comparably under-powered SE.
Heefty
1387
Nov 22, 2018
GiantHeadphoneSquidIt's certainly possible that the artifacts of hitting the rails on transients would be less noticeable with the low THD numbers on these amps. I don't have a set on have to look for it though. I can't back that up though. I only have anecdotal to support my theories there. I've always found O2 to sound much better than other amps with similar rails and higher THD driving my Senns.
SpeleoFool
675
Nov 22, 2018
JonnyModenaYep. Got the Elex and first impression was “these sound a lot like Utopias, but they’re missing this, and that....” At their price point they’re a remarkable pair of headphones, and as long as you don’t A-B them against Utopias on a reference system, you probably wouldn’t notice anything missing.
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