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Kmanely
20
Sep 8, 2017
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Just recently converted my old roommates room into an office. Where the majority of my music listening and gaming take place.
Jackula
1743
Sep 11, 2017
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KmanelyIs your desk always that clean? Or did you clean up for the photoshoot :)
Kmanely
20
Sep 14, 2017
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jammuuI really like the amp in the NFB-28. Fully digital, the stepped volume knob controls current rather than using op amps. Theoretically to reduce distortion, and to my ears it does sound super clean. I can say with full size phones, I have yet to hear a noise floor. The amp range is quite expansive. No channel imbalance down low. And 60/100 on low gain is uncomfortably loud with HD6XX.
Sound quality wise, Bass is very controlled. Treble's in a sweet spot: detailed but not fatiguing. Mids are smooth and natural. I'm mostly running the HD6XX (HD650) through the balanced out. Soundstage is realistic, and the separation helps it sound more vast than it probably is. The overall sound is natural and realistic nothing exaggerated. Some sounds are so uncanny, I need to turn to make sure no one's sneaking up on me.
The thing is built like a tank. The unit itself does click with each volume step, as the relays switch on and off. It's actually quite a satisfying click. And those clicks aren't audible through headphones. There are a few clicks that are audible through phones, on specific steps like 39-40. But I only hear them if I'm really listening for them.
The NFB-1AMP is pretty much the same amp section as the 28, but I think it's even quieter and may have a bit more power, being a dedicated amp. In addition to the Summary page on Audio-GD's site the User Manual page also has a lot of useful information. Info that's more focused on specific features, and settings.
Sound quality wise, Bass is very controlled. Treble's in a sweet spot: detailed but not fatiguing. Mids are smooth and natural. I'm mostly running the HD6XX (HD650) through the balanced out. Soundstage is realistic, and the separation helps it sound more vast than it probably is. The overall sound is natural and realistic nothing exaggerated. Some sounds are so uncanny, I need to turn to make sure no one's sneaking up on me.
The thing is built like a tank. The unit itself does click with each volume step, as the relays switch on and off. It's actually quite a satisfying click. And those clicks aren't audible through headphones. There are a few clicks that are audible through phones, on specific steps like 39-40. But I only hear them if I'm really listening for them.
The NFB-1AMP is pretty much the same amp section as the 28, but I think it's even quieter and may have a bit more power, being a dedicated amp. In addition to the Summary page on Audio-GD's site the User Manual page also has a lot of useful information. Info that's more focused on specific features, and settings.
Jackula
1743
Sep 14, 2017
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jammuuIf you've got the HD6XX, this is probably going to be quite a bit better than the Liquid Carbon X. Plus this has a killer built-in DAC and a better power supply. I don't have one but I've listened to some of their higher end stuff, their Master 7 is a real treat, they know what they're doing.
Kmanely
20
Sep 14, 2017
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JackulaI haven't tried the liquid carbon, but the general consensus is that it's a very smooth, warm sounding amp. Which is the Cavalli house sound. Which may be what Jammuu is looking for. Though I'm not sure, if combined with the 6XX, it would be too smooth and too warm. Audio-GD stuff is generally going to sound more neutral, letting the characteristics of your headphone shine through more.
jammuu
54
Sep 14, 2017
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KmanelyYea, I've been reading that AGD stuff is very neutral and transparent, just powerful. I was kind of looking for that, the LC this time around is pure solid state. So without the original tube characteristics, I'm not sure how warm compared to the original LCX it will be. I also have a pair of LCD-2, that's why I was looking into AGD because they have a ton of power to drive planars. I was planning to get either one of these SS amps, and maybe a bottlehead as an OTL tube amp for the warm sounds. Aghh choices...
A community member
Sep 24, 2017
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KmanelyI noticed you have a pair of 7XXs! Could you recommend a great amp for them?
Kmanely
20
Sep 25, 2017
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It's actually been a while since I used the k7XXs exclusively for music listening. I can try doing some comparisons tonight.
From what I remember they have great sound stage, with a bit of grain in the treble. I personally like warmer amps like my Fiio K5 with them. If I remember correctly, the O2, being a super neutral amp, made the grain stand out a bit more. I've heard that the M9xx pairs well with them too. But I haven't tried it myself.
Tube amps are another avenue to pursue, I haven't tried any tube rolling yet with my Little Dot mkII, just running stock at the moment. But it runs at a pretty high output impedance. You might get a little better control with something that's lower output impedance, as the 7xx's are semi sensitive. A good Hybrid Tube could do well, like a Schiit Vali or CTH.
Probably any of the Cavalli stuff that's currently active on Massdrop, would play well with the K7xx. But that's more speculation. Maybe someone else could weigh in on this more.
I haven't got to play them much with the NFB-28, I plan to mod the mini XLR connector on the K7xx to run it Balanced.
From what I remember they have great sound stage, with a bit of grain in the treble. I personally like warmer amps like my Fiio K5 with them. If I remember correctly, the O2, being a super neutral amp, made the grain stand out a bit more. I've heard that the M9xx pairs well with them too. But I haven't tried it myself.
Tube amps are another avenue to pursue, I haven't tried any tube rolling yet with my Little Dot mkII, just running stock at the moment. But it runs at a pretty high output impedance. You might get a little better control with something that's lower output impedance, as the 7xx's are semi sensitive. A good Hybrid Tube could do well, like a Schiit Vali or CTH.
Probably any of the Cavalli stuff that's currently active on Massdrop, would play well with the K7xx. But that's more speculation. Maybe someone else could weigh in on this more.
I haven't got to play them much with the NFB-28, I plan to mod the mini XLR connector on the K7xx to run it Balanced.
A community member
Sep 25, 2017
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KmanelyThanks for the detailed reply! In general do tube amps have pretty low current (not power) output? I know because of the 7XXs sensitivity, they need a whole lot of current, but not much power (only being 62 ohm). I would like to get a tube amp that would fit the lower power, but still high current needs. For this, I was thinking either the Vali 2 or Little Dot I+, but I'm not sure if it would be better to just get a solid state dishing out enough power and high current.
Jackula
1743
Sep 26, 2017
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Since this hasn't been answered in, hope you won't mind that I jump in. You're right, a tube amp (OTL like the Little Dot) will have much higher voltage than current output, which benefits high impedance headphones like the HD6xx's, but not so much the AKG 7xx. You'll need 177mW @ 62 ohms minimum to get their full power potential.
A community member
Sep 27, 2017
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JackulaBecause the Little Dot I+ is 300mW @ 120 ohms and 800mW @ 32 ohms, would this be too much? Im assuming I wouldn't be able to go past 9 o'clock or so on the dial, but how does this affect the current? The power rating on the Vali 2 is also in a similar range.
Kmanely
20
Sep 27, 2017
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JackulaThanks for replying. Like you said, OTL amps will generally have a higher Output Impedance which can cause some weird distortion in the low end on lower impedance headphones. You want an amp that's Output Impedance is 1/8 of you headphone impedance or lower. This is at least what I've read to be the general consensus, I'm by no means, an electrical engineer.
But that's why I suggested a Hybrid Tube amp, like the Vali 2 which has an Output Impedance of 1.2 ohms in low gain and 5.8 at high. Which should give you more control, before it gets too loud or distorted. Even with the 6xx I wouldn't go past 12 o'clock on my Little Dot mkII which is too loud for normal listening but with minimal distortion.
There's also other factors that come into play like the actual sensitivity rating. My T50rp mk3s are 50 ohms but have a sensitivity of 92db/v. The K7XX and HD6XX are similarly sensitive at 105 and 103 respectively. So the T50's require more voltage to match volume with the others.
I guess what I'm getting at is it's hard to tell without trying it first hand. But I think the 1/8 rule will get you in the ballpark. Here's some more technical reading on the subject from NwAvGuy's blog. http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html
hopefully that's helpful.
But that's why I suggested a Hybrid Tube amp, like the Vali 2 which has an Output Impedance of 1.2 ohms in low gain and 5.8 at high. Which should give you more control, before it gets too loud or distorted. Even with the 6xx I wouldn't go past 12 o'clock on my Little Dot mkII which is too loud for normal listening but with minimal distortion.
There's also other factors that come into play like the actual sensitivity rating. My T50rp mk3s are 50 ohms but have a sensitivity of 92db/v. The K7XX and HD6XX are similarly sensitive at 105 and 103 respectively. So the T50's require more voltage to match volume with the others.
I guess what I'm getting at is it's hard to tell without trying it first hand. But I think the 1/8 rule will get you in the ballpark. Here's some more technical reading on the subject from NwAvGuy's blog. http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html
hopefully that's helpful.
Jackula
1743
Sep 27, 2017
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KmanelyJust a small correction. Your T50rp has an efficiency of 92db/mW, its actual sensitivity is 105dB/V, which puts it the same as K7XX but actually require less power since it's a planar. And you're right, damping relates to control of the bass, where power is reflected due to higher load. Damping below 1/4 is generally OK, personally I prefer the Aune T1 over the Vali 2, dampling would be about 1/7 at best.
A community member
Sep 28, 2017
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JackulaHow does sensitivity come into play when looking for desired output? I know the Vali 2 is rated at 650 mW @ 50 ohms, so it sounds like it would definitely power the 62 ohm K7XX, maybe even too much (because of their 200mW max input). But how does the K7XXs 105db/V affect these numbers? Also, I have heard the Vali 2 doesn't not sound very "tubey" and has a similar sound to SS amps half of its price. Is this accurate?
Jackula
1743
Sep 28, 2017
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The lower the sensitivity and efficiency, the more power you'll need to drive them without distortion. The equation for the power to drive a headphone without clipping distortion is: 10 ^ ((115 - efficiency) / 10). To derive efficiency (per mW) from sensitivity (per V) is: sensitivity - 30 + 10log(resistance). Ideally your amp output should be 2x of the optimal power, higher if it's a dynamic transducer, higher if it's a high impedance headphone.
In a true tube amp, most of the tubey distortion comes from the output tubes. In a Vali 2 hybrid, it only uses tubes for the pre-amp stage. You got some benefits from tube gain, but it's not the whole package.
In a true tube amp, most of the tubey distortion comes from the output tubes. In a Vali 2 hybrid, it only uses tubes for the pre-amp stage. You got some benefits from tube gain, but it's not the whole package.
A community member
Sep 28, 2017
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JackulaThank you so much for explaining! I was able to use this equation to get ~161 for the K7XX, using 105 for the sensitivity and 62 as the resistance. However, when you say the output should be 2x the optimal power, does this mean the posted specs for the desired amp should read something similar to 322 mW @ 62 ohm? And if so, does this mean I would only be able to run the amp at about 60% in order to stay under the K7XX's max power input of 200 mW?
Jackula
1743
Sep 30, 2017
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Yes, and I don't think you would go beyond 161 because it would be more than loud enough for you. Just don't do something silly like turning the volume pot all the way up because you're curious how loud it would go. Btw, 60% of output power doesn't mean 60% on the volume pot. 60% would be pretty close to max volume since volume control is also logarithmic, i.e. 50% volume is twice as loud as 25% volume, but uses 10x the power.
A community member
Sep 30, 2017
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JackulaOh I see. So this mean I would not be able to go very far on the volume pot? I'm guessing not passed 9 o'clock?
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