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user73
339
Nov 6, 2017
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This is frustrating. Straight out the box, with no firmware flashes, I have a problem.
When I turn on my PC with this keyboard plugged in, it hangs before the POST, and does so until I remove the keyboard. In BIOS I had my rig set up to boot from USB devices if available, but the problem persists even after I changed that boot priority.
There's more though: after I unplug the keyboard and thereby allow the machine to post and start to load Windows 10, I can plug it back in and freeze the Windows Login screen.
Booting my PC with no slowdown and loading Windows with my new keyboard working are now mutually exclusive. I've never experienced this on any computer or with any keyboard, ever. Only now with the K-Type; plugging in any other keyboard results in a normal experience through and through.
How do I get official support on this?
Nov 6, 2017
HaaTa
558
Input Club
Nov 6, 2017
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user73What's your computer? This sounds like your USB chipset is going crazy (possibly drawing too much power). Do you have a powered USB hub to try out? If this helps, most likely the power net (and or power supply) on your computer isn't designed very well.
The K-Type draws *a lot* of power by default, and while I've tested a lot a lot of computers (with no issues), it's basically impossible for me to buy every single computer to test with... And, this situation is also possible if you have just too many USB devices with a passive hub, so it's not really specific to the K-Type.
Nov 6, 2017
user73
339
Nov 7, 2017
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HaaTaHi, and thanks for the response.
I neglected to mention what I'm plugging the K-Type into. derp-a-lerp.
It plugs into a powered USB3 hub. The hub also hosts a unified receiver dongle for a Logitech wireless mouse, a second wired mouse, a wired numpad, a rarely-used HDD SDD cloning station, and it powers the LED strips on the back perimeter of my 2 monitors. Separate 1 and 2 amp ports for charging only. While I suppose it's possible there could be some sort of conflict with another device - on or off the hub - power does not seem to be the issue. After all, it works fine after the rig is up and running.
All that being said, I have not tried plugging in directly to the I/O, nor have I tried unplugging other USB devices. I'll do all that and write back when I have more information. Thanks again.
And by the way, I love the feel of the switches. They're the non-clicky type, and the travel is minimal, even without o-rings on the cap stems. It may overtake my Realforce as my favorite keyboard to type on. Well done!
Nov 7, 2017
HaaTa
558
Input Club
Nov 7, 2017
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user73Hmm, sounds like a BIOS/UEFI bug regarding keyboards. Since the K-Type uses an NKRO keyboard descriptor, BIOS/UEFI implementation that neglect the USB HID standard (there are lots of these btw) may not work correctly, or in really buggy cases just hang. (As an aside, you may want to see if there's a halt of keyboard error bios setting that BIOSes of old used to have, and disable that).
Nov 7, 2017
user73
339
Nov 7, 2017
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HaaTaUndersood. I'll get back to you.
Nov 7, 2017
user73
339
Nov 9, 2017
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HaaTaOkay - I have a lot of devices that I juggle around, so I've had to do a great deal of tinkering to troubleshoot this. I have the following to report:
1) The POST hanging I described isn't permanent. I see now that the system does eventually POST, but only after ~60+ seconds of being frozen - an eternity considering SSD system boot time. The freeze instantly thaws and normal startup resumes as soon as the K-Type is unplugged.
2) I unplugged everything except a monitor, wireless mouse, and the K-Type, and the POST hang behavior persisted. Whether the K-Type was plugged in to my rig's front IO, rear IO, or USB hub, the POST hang was present on 15 out of 15 startups.
3) There is no Halt on keyboard error setting in BIOS
4) The computer is built on an MSI P67A-GD65 (B3) - https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/P67AGD65_B3.html - which allows mousing in the BIOS. Unplugging the K-Type while in BIOS, and then plugging it back in, actually froze whole system - including all mousing. The only way out was to unplug the K-Type and use the mouse to exit without saving.
What is the next step in resolving this? Thanks for your time.
Nov 9, 2017
HaaTa
558
Input Club
Nov 9, 2017
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user73Hmm, so the main bug is in the MSI BIOS. The USB descriptors are according to the USB spec.
The only thing I can see that might work on my side, would be to create a special "only do 6KRO" build of the firmware. This would remove mouse support, debug shell support, joystick support and possibly media key support.
Another possibility is that the MSI BIOS is doing an odd USB call that I don't handle. Unfortunately, I can't determine that without physically doing a USB capture (there may be other ways to capture it, but since it's so early during boot, another computer + tools are required).
It'll have to wait till next week (preparing for an enormous keyboard meetup this weekend @ Nest HQ in Palo Alto). But I'm going to prepare some debug binaries to flash and try out, and perhaps get some more information.
Nov 9, 2017
user73
339
Nov 9, 2017
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HaaTaThanks, I'll look to get back with you after next week then.
Nov 9, 2017
K-A-T-O
13
Nov 9, 2017
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user73I have the same exact problem, except it's my Logitech C920 causing it. Same symptoms and everything. I have an Asus mobo though. Only "solved" it by connecting to a USB hub with individual power switches that I just keep off until I'm booted in. I hope you get it sorted out, man. It's super annoying.
Nov 9, 2017
user73
339
Dec 5, 2017
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HaaTaHello again. I last spoke with you about a month ago. Have you had a chance to revisit this issue yet?
Dec 5, 2017
HaaTa
558
Input Club
Dec 5, 2017
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user73Have you tried flashing without animations to see if it may be a power consumption issue?
Thinking about it some more, I suspect the BIOS is requesting a usb feature that is not common and getting an unexpected response.
Just double-checking, have you tried using the USB 2.0 ports for the keyboard?
I've created myself an issue to see if I can get a debugging image. https://github.com/kiibohd/controller/issues/251
Dec 5, 2017
user73
339
Dec 6, 2017
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HaaTaUSB 2 Port - Yes, I have tried both the USB 2 port on my board, and the USB 3 hub. The results below are the same in either case:
Flashing - I'm looking at these instructions, and below are my steps:
https://github.com/kiibohd/controller/blob/master/Documentation/Keyboards/K-Type.md#entering-flash-mode
Problem - I am stuck at: Flashing - Windows, 1, ii: From the dropdown, select "API Interface (Interface 5)
* I have the No Animations firmware downloaded: KType-NoAnimations-f8d07b68c15c127dff123caf5ce557a9.zip
* Confirmed K-Type is in Flash Mode; amber light is present and switch lights are off.
* I have zadig-2.3.exe downloaded, and Run as Administrator
There is no API Interface present in Zadig while the K-Type is in Flash mode:
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Here's a look at the Options menu:
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Note - I ran Zadig while the K-Type was plugged in normally, not in flash mode, and I saw API Interface.
Respectfully, there is an inordinate amount of problems and troubleshooting going on here. If I had purchased - for example - a keyboard from Logitech, and were experiencing the same problems, Logitech would surely, at this point, issue an RMA for a return. At what point can I expect the same solution for this keyboard?
Dec 6, 2017
Knxwledge
15
May 17, 2018
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user73have you found a solution to this problem?
May 17, 2018
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