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Showing 1 of 45 conversations about:
strictmashine
3
Dec 9, 2017
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I find stainless steel hard to sharpen. I am interested in trying a high carbon steel knife. Can anyone recommend a high carbon chef or santoku blade?
suttlaw
2
Dec 9, 2017
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strictmashineSabatier is probably the best known maker of high carbon steel knives. If you take care of them properly, clean and dry right after using and avoid acidic foods (can leave dark spots), they will take an extremely sharp edge. However, the blade will dull more rapidly than a knife with a higher carbon content. They could be the dullest looking but sharpest knife in your collection.
SidPost
73
Dec 9, 2017
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strictmashineWith stainless steel, are you using stamped (AUS-8) knives or harder forged (German manufactured) or even better, modern powdered stainless from Japan? Stamped stainless can 'smear' on a sharpening stone and you need to be careful about developing a false 'wire' edge. The really hard (RC 60+) Japanese knives really need premium stones to sharpen in a reasonable amount of time. The German (~RC-57) should sharpen well on most 'stones' found at the big box stores such as Wal-Mart's, easily found in the sporting good section in many locations.
For carbon steel kitchen knives, I am a huge Japanese home (or cottage industry) forged knives. I prefer the French profile, which is flatter with less 'belly' than their German counterparts, of the Japanese Gyuto which is also thinner both at the spine and edge so it passes through food easier. The Japanese Gyuto will typically come with equal bevels on both sides of the edge set at 15 degrees, versus the 20 of European blades.
A Japanese Santoku might be worth consideration for a 'test drive' at a modest price point of Japanese carbon steel kitchen knives.
As a point of clarification, when I say 'carbon' steel I mean not-stainless (i.e. not rust resistant with Chromium), not high versus low carbon content.
For carbon steel kitchen knives, I am a huge Japanese home (or cottage industry) forged knives. I prefer the French profile, which is flatter with less 'belly' than their German counterparts, of the Japanese Gyuto which is also thinner both at the spine and edge so it passes through food easier. The Japanese Gyuto will typically come with equal bevels on both sides of the edge set at 15 degrees, versus the 20 of European blades.
A Japanese Santoku might be worth consideration for a 'test drive' at a modest price point of Japanese carbon steel kitchen knives.
As a point of clarification, when I say 'carbon' steel I mean not-stainless (i.e. not rust resistant with Chromium), not high versus low carbon content.
strictmashine
3
Dec 9, 2017
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SidPost"A Japanese Santoku might be worth consideration for a 'test drive' at a modest price point of Japanese carbon steel kitchen knives". This sounds interesting. Are there any that you would recommend ?
djfluffkins
157
Dec 9, 2017
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strictmashineWhat's the price point you're looking for?
I have a few of the Bob Kramer carbon steel collection, they are AMAZING. The only issue is the one that suttlaw and others have listed about keeping them clean. Rust spots can come extremely easy to them if not properly cared for. Wipe often when in use, wash and immediately hand dry when complete.
Bob Kramers aren't cheap but they will last and are incredibly well made. I was lucky enough to get some on clearance when SLT was rotating out their collection for the Damascus versions.
I have a few of the Bob Kramer carbon steel collection, they are AMAZING. The only issue is the one that suttlaw and others have listed about keeping them clean. Rust spots can come extremely easy to them if not properly cared for. Wipe often when in use, wash and immediately hand dry when complete.
Bob Kramers aren't cheap but they will last and are incredibly well made. I was lucky enough to get some on clearance when SLT was rotating out their collection for the Damascus versions.
SidPost
73
Dec 9, 2017
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strictmashineFor a moderate price point, I purchased a Tojiro DP many years ago which is a hard carbon center layer clad in a soft (JUS-410?) stainless steel to support the thin steel center and minimize rusting potential. Back then it was ~$65.
Today, I would consider the Tojiro Shirogami Santoku. A quick search turns up some delivered from ~$34. This is a Kurouchi finished (blacksmith finish) standard Santoku (right size, thickness, etc., not westernized) with a traditional Ho wood handle. Of the four common grades of Japanese Carbon steel, this one is the lowest level but, it will hold a great edge and resharpen relatively easy. If you like the Japanese blade profiles, I would step up in the future to a VG-10 Gyuto to complement this knife.
If a ~$70 price point is acceptable, I would strongly urge you to consider a VG-10 Santoku. While carbon steel may be technically superior, VG-10 is so close in performance that it is unlikely most home cooks would notice the difference except for the rusting differences when left wet or with acidic residue on them.
Today, I would consider the Tojiro Shirogami Santoku. A quick search turns up some delivered from ~$34. This is a Kurouchi finished (blacksmith finish) standard Santoku (right size, thickness, etc., not westernized) with a traditional Ho wood handle. Of the four common grades of Japanese Carbon steel, this one is the lowest level but, it will hold a great edge and resharpen relatively easy. If you like the Japanese blade profiles, I would step up in the future to a VG-10 Gyuto to complement this knife.
If a ~$70 price point is acceptable, I would strongly urge you to consider a VG-10 Santoku. While carbon steel may be technically superior, VG-10 is so close in performance that it is unlikely most home cooks would notice the difference except for the rusting differences when left wet or with acidic residue on them.
Friedumpling
46
Dec 10, 2017
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strictmashineMy only concern with that price point is everything else that goes along with a carbon steel knife. I might suggest, for the time being, to invest in everything else that’s needed first. Waterstones (which the minimum is two but recommended is at least 4 different grades), a proper honing rod, a good cutting board and camellia oil to protect the knife.
strictmashine
3
Dec 11, 2017
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FriedumplingWouldn’t all of that be required for a stainless blade except the oil?
Friedumpling
46
Dec 11, 2017
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strictmashineDidn’t mean to assume you didn’t have those items already. I just didn’t want to see you buy a knife, then instantly require more gear and not factor that cost in too.
Dartos07
0
Dec 12, 2017
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strictmashineCarbon steel is nice, hold an edge, easy to sharpen but is a bit chippy so you have to be more careful. Discoloration part not that big a deal. You could try a Victorinox to see if you like it, pretty inexpensive
Fourday
131
Dec 12, 2017
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strictmashineI had good success finding a vintage carbon knife on eBay. The knife needed work, however cleaning it up, refinishing the handle and sharpening it gave it new life and it's now my favorite. You could find the same success from eBay or a local thift shop. For a price point below $20 and a little elbow grease it's hard to beat.
sc_fd
48
Dec 12, 2017
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strictmashineVintage carbon could be a way to go if you are willing to put in the elbow grease to tune it up to be a good cutter
There are also options like Fujiwara FKM which is monosteel carbon
I find that the iron clad stuff like Tojiro Shirogami or similar lines can be a rude entry into carbon steel on account of the extra reactivity compared to the core steels
harrisonh
51
Jan 23, 2018
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strictmashineIf you find stainless hard to sharpen, at 52-58 Rockwell, you're going to find most carbon steel, harder to sharpen at 54-63 Rockwell. A myth that carbon is easier to sharpen is a mistake in the publics mind because experienced sharpeners say it is easier to get a razor sharp edge than stainless, not that it is easier to get a home cook quality edge. A steel like "german steel" is easier for a novice. In fact, that's why we use stainless in culinary school, to build skill in sharpening, and because it is more forgiving.
Also, it's likely that carbon steel will be "chippier" requiring better skill or discipline of the user.
As far as all these novices recommending the brand that they already ought or that they heard about, it's not really useful because there is no "best" knife. Only "best knife for you" based on your skill set, your discipline, your body shape, your cutting style. If you have them near you go to a REAL knife store (or a company like sur la table or Williams sonona), and try several models and bring in a bag of potatoes, 2 minue demo they give is NOT long enough.
If you're going to buy a knife "blind" without trying it. I recommend a german steel knife from Wusthof, Henckels (with TWO men, not the one with one man), Mercer, Messermeister, FDick, or Dexter. Thise are the brands that are well respected by professional cooks and the ones that most students use in culinary school. Avoid companies that are famous like Cuisinart or Kitchen aid. even though I use many of their kitchen electrics, they do NOT make their own knives, they license their brand to a variety of companies.
Also, it's likely that carbon steel will be "chippier" requiring better skill or discipline of the user.
As far as all these novices recommending the brand that they already ought or that they heard about, it's not really useful because there is no "best" knife. Only "best knife for you" based on your skill set, your discipline, your body shape, your cutting style. If you have them near you go to a REAL knife store (or a company like sur la table or Williams sonona), and try several models and bring in a bag of potatoes, 2 minue demo they give is NOT long enough.
If you're going to buy a knife "blind" without trying it. I recommend a german steel knife from Wusthof, Henckels (with TWO men, not the one with one man), Mercer, Messermeister, FDick, or Dexter. Thise are the brands that are well respected by professional cooks and the ones that most students use in culinary school. Avoid companies that are famous like Cuisinart or Kitchen aid. even though I use many of their kitchen electrics, they do NOT make their own knives, they license their brand to a variety of companies.
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