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svdb
11
Nov 11, 2016
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Objective2
anything more expensive is wasted money.
https://www.mayflowerelectronics.com/shop/digital-to-analog-converters/desktop-objective2-with-odac/
Heefty
1387
Dec 27, 2016
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svdbI disagree, but only mildly. Not everyone wants a boring flat completely neutral amp. That's that the O2 is. I. for one, like a very musical amp. One that is very dynamic and lively.
You should try to avoid such definitive statements when it comes to audio products. Not everyone is looking for the same thing. What works for you is most likely not what everyone on the planet wants.
You should try to avoid such definitive statements when it comes to audio products. Not everyone is looking for the same thing. What works for you is most likely not what everyone on the planet wants.
svdb
11
Dec 27, 2016
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HeeftyIt's of course a question of taste and there's no right or wrong here, just how much you're willing to pay for a certain level of quality. With the O2 I think a very high level of quality is achieved for a very reasonable price point. It's also easier to like a neutral amp like the O2 than to like a "colorful" amp without having tried it first, which makes it a safer purchase. It's easier to go wrong with an amp that has character or color if you can't try it out first. If you only listen to one particular type of music you may find an amp that matches it. But if you're not that type of audiophile you're better of with a neutral amp that can handle everything very well (including games).
Some argue that true audiophiles don't use headphones to begin with. ;) Who knows...
Turkay
363
Jan 10, 2017
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HeeftyIMO this and any choice you make about any audio gear should be considered by the music style (or styles) you like. If you like a specific genre over all others, it is best and most affordable to get the gear aimed to that get "that" kind of sound better. For example, if you like bass heavy pop genre, you better get gear which gives better bass response or if you like classical you want as much mid to treble detail you can get etc. Good thing with transparent gear is you will get the most of what the artist/mix&mastering engineer/producer intended to give to listeners, that way you listen to the "music" not the "gear". So for me, and also for any audiophile that works the best.
Heefty
1387
Jan 10, 2017
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TurkayYou both seem to misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying I'd recommend a colored amp.
There's a difference between uneven frequency response and what I'm referring to. There are many amps that can replicate a flat even frequency response while still being vivid and dynamic. They amplify whats already in the music in a way that is less analytical and more musical making any genre sound better regardless of what your personal preferences are.
O2 is among the best, if not the best, for the price point, but there are far better amps out there.
There's a difference between uneven frequency response and what I'm referring to. There are many amps that can replicate a flat even frequency response while still being vivid and dynamic. They amplify whats already in the music in a way that is less analytical and more musical making any genre sound better regardless of what your personal preferences are.
O2 is among the best, if not the best, for the price point, but there are far better amps out there.
Heefty
1387
Feb 6, 2017
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FuckHead-FiIs that why they cost so much more? Could have fooled me...
Jackula
1743
Aug 8, 2017
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Distortion can make an amp more analytical and less musical (not talking about tubes here). Even a 1 decibel deviation in the frequency response can cause a person to interpret the sound as warmer or colder, and depending on their personal preferences that could mean more or less musical. Not all amps are created equal, and sometimes the cause for distortion has little to do with the amp itself.
Jackula
1743
Aug 8, 2017
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Amps are not designed to colour, but every component in the circuit adds some distortion directly or indirectly, and some can manifest through transducer interaction.
I've never done any listening tests but it makes sense to me that less distortion = more musical, because you're enjoying the music as you would as it was recorded live.
I've never done any listening tests but it makes sense to me that less distortion = more musical, because you're enjoying the music as you would as it was recorded live.
Jackula
1743
Aug 8, 2017
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Well if it's an identical output, then it will sound the same. Transducer interaction such as where the output impedance does not match the load impedance, in such situations where the current meets unexpected resistance (such as the headphone) some will be reflected back, this impacts the frequency response.
Well, I don't think "lower number of components = generally better" is universally true. You could have only a few components in the circuit that are poor quality which adds more noise to the circuit than a circuit with more components but of higher quality. You could use have wires longer than needed, with poor shielding they act as internal antennas causing interference with other parts of circuitry. You could have a balanced setup where you don't have a perfect mirror image in the negative path. You could have a poor quality power supply that adds electrical interference to your entire circuit. The list could go on.
Judging by your other posts, I think you're quite knowledgeable in this domain and don't need me to explain it all to you.
Well, I don't think "lower number of components = generally better" is universally true. You could have only a few components in the circuit that are poor quality which adds more noise to the circuit than a circuit with more components but of higher quality. You could use have wires longer than needed, with poor shielding they act as internal antennas causing interference with other parts of circuitry. You could have a balanced setup where you don't have a perfect mirror image in the negative path. You could have a poor quality power supply that adds electrical interference to your entire circuit. The list could go on.
Judging by your other posts, I think you're quite knowledgeable in this domain and don't need me to explain it all to you.
Heefty
1387
Aug 10, 2017
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JackulaThe the problem is that it won't be an identical signal if it comes from a different amp unless, perhaps, the output stage is identical.
You always have to consider how the load will affect the output of the amp. If you look at it straight from the output with your o-scope, it can, but if you do so with your transducer of choice attached it will perform very differently. If you side-by-side compare an O2 with something like an Airist Heron 5, or a Lake People G109, you'll quickly see what I mean by musical. They're definitely still flat though.
You always have to consider how the load will affect the output of the amp. If you look at it straight from the output with your o-scope, it can, but if you do so with your transducer of choice attached it will perform very differently. If you side-by-side compare an O2 with something like an Airist Heron 5, or a Lake People G109, you'll quickly see what I mean by musical. They're definitely still flat though.
Jackula
1743
Aug 10, 2017
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HeeftyI understand that. I was being silly with my first sentence, because it seemed Ssam was just probing for the sake of it as he really didn't wanted any of my answers. Of course IFF the output is identical and the load is identical, then the sound will be the same too. But like you said it's very hard to achieve because every component in the amp will need to be the same, and even if they are you'll still get small discrepancies within each individual component. Just like how every transformer is different even when they are all made the same.
That said, I haven't heard the Lake People, I've only heard the Violectric V200 at a shop, without side by side comparison to my O2, my impression was the V200 was more musical on my HD600. But that could just due to the extra power output, it's kinda hard to tell.
That said, I haven't heard the Lake People, I've only heard the Violectric V200 at a shop, without side by side comparison to my O2, my impression was the V200 was more musical on my HD600. But that could just due to the extra power output, it's kinda hard to tell.
Heefty
1387
Aug 10, 2017
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JackulaThat was more for ssam than you, but that yours was the last comment in the conversation, so I hit reply on that one.
To your point though: Higher output power capacity makes a huge difference on how musical an amp sounds in my experience.
To your point though: Higher output power capacity makes a huge difference on how musical an amp sounds in my experience.
Jackula
1743
Aug 10, 2017
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HeeftyThat's my experience too, although in my experience once a headphone had reached its power threshold (where it didn't scale with any more additional power), better circuits start to make a bigger difference.
In the context of this drop, if I didn't need extra power and was looking for entry level, I'd take an O2 over a Magni any day.
In the context of this drop, if I didn't need extra power and was looking for entry level, I'd take an O2 over a Magni any day.
Heefty
1387
Aug 14, 2017
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It's hard to describe beyond that. It's really something you have to experience for yourself.
I can say that it comes from the amp though. You can have the same experience with an all analog source.
I can say that it comes from the amp though. You can have the same experience with an all analog source.
Heefty
1387
Aug 14, 2017
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That's a good question. As I said previously, I look at the output power, but I think the answer might actually lie in phase shift variation across the audio band.
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