Dragon FIRE by Yaxell BD1N Kitchen Knives

Oct 6, 2017

b111It was $100.

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Sep 2, 2017

Is it safe in the dishwasher?

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Sep 8, 2017

Ok, I didn't really want to get into this, but as the person who has been in knife manufacturing for almost 30 years and the person credited for startIng Shun and the owner of Apogee, I have heard more opinions and theories on the dishwasher than I can count. Inspector Poirot is correct, depending on the steel, extended periods in the dishwasher could affect the tempering. However heat treating usually involves temperatures that would melt plastic. So if your plastic spoon is holding shape and not turning into a pile of goo, you are probably fine. When we first started Shun, we ran it through the dishwasher 500 times. There were some minute changes on the edge, but nothing to write home about. We did the same with Dragon, and really saw no change. This was because both of these steels were hea treated to an above 60HRC. knives in the mid to lower 50'swould show more damage.
So now I'm going to offend some people, but here is the truth. There are very few things we agree on as an industry. The dish washer is one. Doing this is an express train ticket to stupid town. I am not speaking from theory or opinion, but from fact. It is one of the number one causes for trips to the emergency room from the kitchen. You can give me all of the excuses and justificactions you want, it doesn't change the fact. It's dangerous you shouldn't do it.
So why don't knife companies warranty for the dishwasher? I just told you it really doesn't affect the blade that much. It's the handle that fails. Materials like wood, pakkawood, and POM, get trashed in the dishwasher. First they are subject to almost boiling water which causes swelling, then heat drying which causes shrinking. Over time this will cause warping, rot, and cracking. Knife companies can fix blades, but they can't fix handles. This is why they tell you not to put in there.
The only materials that will hold up, are micarta and G10. Dragon uses Micarta, because I'm smart enough to know that all of my soap box screaming won't really change your mind. The sad fact is that it's going in. So the Dragon knives warranty does cover the dishwasher. But for the love of god, don't do it. If someone you love reaches in and seriously hurts or even maimes themselves, you will never forgive yourself. Do you have any idea how many nerves and tendons are in your hand that can be severed? The worst I ever heard was a child who was a prodigy for the piano ended her future destiny when she severed a group of nerves in the palm of her hand. So please, just don't do it. PLEASE!!!!!!

Oct 5, 2017

Deaomega1214Thanks for the detailed reply. On the internet, you can't tell who is who you just know a lot of different people write things and there is nothing to tell you who to listen to, who actually knows what they're talking about. So to get your point across you do have to bare your experience and your conscience as you just did, to get people to listen and at the expense of your valuable time. Thank you.

Another_Overpriced_Drop

232

Sep 2, 2017

Is yaxell ever planning to do S35 steel for a kitchen knife? I know BD1N isn't bad but it's a bummer that there's a huge hole in the market for powder steel kitchen knives.

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Shenanigans

175

Sep 7, 2017

Another_Overpriced_Drop I've owned a custom chef's knife in s30v. I never had any problem with it corroding, but I also treat even my stainless knives almost like my carbon steel knives. Maximum attainable sharpness and ease of sharpening is still among the best of any kitchen knife that I've used. However, edge retention and durability was really nothing special. Better than vg10, but otherwise meh.... not really worth the huge premium in price.
One thing to think about when using a carbon steel or less-stainless steel in the kitchen is that acidic food is going to negatively affect the cutting edge long before you will see corrosion or discoloration on the sides of the blade. Patina or dlc coating isnt going to help you there.
Don't get me wrong, I like playing around with different exotic steeled knives just as much as the next knife knut, but there's no gaping "hole" in the market, its just that the market segment is small, and populated by boutique custom and low-volume makers due to the price that the materials necessitate.

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Neji

156

Jun 18, 2019

Another_Overpriced_DropI own one of the Yaxell Dragon knives in BD1N. I also own several knives with S35. From how I use a knife in the kitchen, I do not see that there is an advantage to S35, especially when it will greatly increase the price of the knife. If you want REAL stainless then go with ceramic knives. I love my Kyocera ceramic knives for fruit and vegetables. I think Yaxell's use of BD1N is an excellent choice of steel given all factors. I'm just waiting for another Yaxell drop...

tlblakburne

Jul 15, 2017

Silly question of course, does each knife come with a bamboo (?) sheath? One is pictured, but nothing in description

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Sep 2, 2017

tlblakburneThe sheaths are separate

Sep 2, 2017

The sheaths are separate

JoePal

Jul 14, 2017

How well do these knives handle heavy use? How well do they compare to the Shun Classic knives? I currently use the 8 inch Yaxel Dragon and it's a great knife, however it seems like I need to sharpen it at least twice throughout the day while I'm at work. I do like that these new knives are slightly thinner than the original which is something that I'm looking for in a new knife.

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CmdrAwesome

Sep 8, 2017

I'm very jealous that you can use it at work, I've got to have an NSF knife in order to take it into the kitchen. Sad story.

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CmdrAwesome

Sep 8, 2017

Yes, truing and sharpening are different things! A steel just basically bends your edge back at the microscopic level.

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Kuztomized

Jul 14, 2017

Is the Dragon Fire an upgrade to the regular Dragon series? Or just intended for a different application / different personal preferences? Will a full set of the Dragon Fire be available? I only see these 3 knives at retailers right now.

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Jul 14, 2017

KuztomizedDragon Fire isn't superior to Dragon classic. When we first launched dragon, it became obvious that there was a large group of Knife users that preferred thinner straighter edges more in the French design. Dragon fire does just this. After all of the years and I've been making knives, what is been hardest for me to learn, is that the best knife, is the knife you like best. Pending on your style, whether you choose dragon or Dragon fire, we now have the right shape for you.

JBal4

Jul 14, 2017

Hi Dennis, could we get some more measurements of these knives? Weight, blade width, handle width and height. I like using flatter profile knives but I have issues with knuckle clearance on some.

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Jul 14, 2017

JBal4The cooks knives are 50mm wide, with one and one eighth inch finger clearance. 9.5" cooks is 8.5oz, and the 8.5". Is 8oz. the slicer is 10.5" in length, and 40mm wide, with 5/8" finger clearance. It weighs 7.2oz.

Jul 14, 2017

Hi everyone. I'm the owner of Apogee culinary designs, and I'm also the designer of all of the Dragon knives. Please new dragon fires are designed to be lighter and more maneuverable with straighter edges. The shapes are inspired by classic French and Japanese design. They still feature the superior bd1n nitrogen steel. If you have any questions please feel free to ask.

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Shenanigans

175

Jul 17, 2017

Thanks for the thoughtful reply and info. Very interesting about the BD1N. 13deg / side is a pretty acute angle so that explains some of what Ive seen in person and in the pictures, but it doesn't look at all convex in the pictures. #7 in the images shows a primary bevel that doesn't look particularly convex or even. What's your policy on owners sharpening their own knives / does that effect the warranty?

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I own one of the Yaxell Dragon knives in BD1N. I also own several knives with S35. From how I use a knife in the kitchen, I do not see that there is an advantage to S35, especially when it will greatly increase the price of the knife. If you want REAL stainless then go with ceramic knives. I love my Kyocera ceramic knives for fruit and vegetables. I think Yaxell's use of BD1N is an excellent choice of steel given all factors. I'm just waiting for another Yaxell drop...

Jul 17, 2017

ShenanigansThe warranty is lifetime no matter what. Please remember that the photos aren't always accurate, knives are hard to photograph. Also every edge will be a little different because they are done by hand.

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Neji

Jahblaze

I wonder if there are plans to offer the Yaxell Dragon, Red, and Fusion drops again with the newer additions such as the Rocker, Nakiri and boning knives. Anyone got any word?