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westwest
73
Jun 26, 2017
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i swear this drop goes against the core principle of massdrop. is it not, the more people (mass) that request for a product, the price is suppose to go down and not go up by $50? This has corporate greed written all over it.
Theta_Zero
35
Jun 26, 2017
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westwestTo quote MassDrop directly:
"More participants means a lower price."
https://helpdesk.massdrop.com/hc/en-us/articles/216539348-How-does-Massdrop-work-
https://helpdesk.massdrop.com/hc/en-us/articles/216539348-How-does-Massdrop-work-
Vigrith
4081
Jun 26, 2017
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Theta_ZeroThere have been plenty of drops every single day that don't have conventional drop points, "more participants means a lower price" being quoted ipsis verbis is actually correct, the fact 3100 people have joined means you can get this for lower than MSRP.
MSRP stands for manufacturer's suggested retail price as I'm sure most people are aware - the manufacturer here being Sennheiser, and here is their suggested (and enforced) retail price of $499.
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/high-quality-headphones-around-ear-audio-surround-hd-650
Can they be had for like $300 elsewhere (if not then during black friday etc at least)? Sure. Still, what Massdrop states is categorically correct and you and @westwest cannot deny that and/or find a workaround as for why Massdrop should offer these for less than they are. It can have nothing to do with greed (I'm not stating it doesn't), anyone familiar enough with headphones and audio gear can see $199 was too low of a price for Sennheiser to reasonably profit from their end of the deal, the increased price may (or may not) have to do with production costs alone; if it's not profitable for them, they increase the cost. Not about greed but about proper business structure and handling. People are obviously buying them.
MSRP stands for manufacturer's suggested retail price as I'm sure most people are aware - the manufacturer here being Sennheiser, and here is their suggested (and enforced) retail price of $499.
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/high-quality-headphones-around-ear-audio-surround-hd-650
Can they be had for like $300 elsewhere (if not then during black friday etc at least)? Sure. Still, what Massdrop states is categorically correct and you and @westwest cannot deny that and/or find a workaround as for why Massdrop should offer these for less than they are. It can have nothing to do with greed (I'm not stating it doesn't), anyone familiar enough with headphones and audio gear can see $199 was too low of a price for Sennheiser to reasonably profit from their end of the deal, the increased price may (or may not) have to do with production costs alone; if it's not profitable for them, they increase the cost. Not about greed but about proper business structure and handling. People are obviously buying them.
A community member
Jun 26, 2017
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VigrithDisagree completely! It IS INDEED, corporate greed! If your "ipsis verbis" argument were to truly hold water, how can they possibly be aware of what pricing should be (in order to make a "reasonable" profit) in 6 months hence?? Actuarial tables, cost analysis programs, or just a coin toss?? Months from now Orange A-hole, can have destroyed trade relations and tariff/tax structure with the celestial kingdom thus, I proffer the argument that they (in this case Massdrop and friends) have increased price to account for some very unknown factor/s such as this! It is a WELL KNOWN fact within the consumer electronics industry that costs ALWAYS come down with time, even as short a time as six months. Look at your average UHD 4k LCD/LED TV; since 6 months ago, my particular model has come down a substantial $1000. I realize that flat panels are far more popular than quasi entry/mid level range audio equipment but...please??!! Remeber the venerable Abe Lincoln, who should seem more relevant NOW than whence he was alive: "you can fool some of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time!!
Like death and taxes the other constant in life is EXCESSIVE corporate greed committed by all peoples, ALL of the time "IF" there exists a reasonable degree of certainty that they'll get away with it!
I have personally been so screwed over by MD either by screwing up shipment dates, addresses, or not accepting my 50K limit credit card because they are so inept that I wouldn't buy from them just on G.P. . In point of fact, I am quite surprised they are still surviving as the "vigorous" entity that they seem to be?? Will wonders never cease??
Racine50
Jun 26, 2017
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westwestI agree,between the extra cash and the long wait time I'll pass.
Cyphre
2708
Jun 26, 2017
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westwest"More participants" relate more to MOQ than gradual drops that make things cheaper as they go. Just because something has a thousand purchases doesn't mean it'll get exponentially cheaper. Instead, the cheaper price was already given, and Minimum Order Quantity (which is what group buys are for) is expected to be met.
Lead times are predicated on what the manufacturer provided as an estimated lead time. Same thing that happens in any made to order business.
Lead times are predicated on what the manufacturer provided as an estimated lead time. Same thing that happens in any made to order business.
Vigrith
4081
Jun 26, 2017
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I tried my best to wade through your compact wall of text but one thing to remember here which is fundamental - the HD650 headphones are 14 years old right now. They've not dropped in price (significantly, besides during sales a la black Friday) for about 5; do you really expect them to drop so drastically in MSRP now that it'd somehow prove your theory?
I'm not going to argue semantics regarding Massdrop's wording any more, I've said my piece and what I asserted stands regardless of whether or not a meteor or some otherworldly event happens within the next 6 months and they plummet below $250 on Sennheiser's official USA online store.
You can hate Massdrop all you want but they are thriving and deservingly so - there's no need for delusions of grandeur, just because you've had bad experiences with them doesn't mean others have. I've been a part of like 50 to 100 drops by now as have other people I am close with and we have yet to run into a single problem, yet you don't see me advocating for them everywhere I go. That's basic confirmation bias, you had a bad experience (or multiple, somehow) so you feel the need to share your situations with others whereas I (and others) do not.
PS: I'm not defending the price increase here nor am I standing up for Massdrop, all I did was debunk the nitpicking that was being had above and give Sennheiser (and MD to an extent) the benefit of the doubt as I think it is perfectly warranted in this situation, knowing the headphone market pretty well myself.
I'm not going to argue semantics regarding Massdrop's wording any more, I've said my piece and what I asserted stands regardless of whether or not a meteor or some otherworldly event happens within the next 6 months and they plummet below $250 on Sennheiser's official USA online store.
You can hate Massdrop all you want but they are thriving and deservingly so - there's no need for delusions of grandeur, just because you've had bad experiences with them doesn't mean others have. I've been a part of like 50 to 100 drops by now as have other people I am close with and we have yet to run into a single problem, yet you don't see me advocating for them everywhere I go. That's basic confirmation bias, you had a bad experience (or multiple, somehow) so you feel the need to share your situations with others whereas I (and others) do not.
PS: I'm not defending the price increase here nor am I standing up for Massdrop, all I did was debunk the nitpicking that was being had above and give Sennheiser (and MD to an extent) the benefit of the doubt as I think it is perfectly warranted in this situation, knowing the headphone market pretty well myself.
Theta_Zero
35
Jun 26, 2017
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VigrithI understand why Sennheiser (or Massdrop) raised the price. Basic economics says that the ideal price is the one that will bear the market, and if people are paying at $250 and exhausting the full stock, then $200 was too low. I don't think it was a bad business decision.
I'm simply saying that the general idea of a group buy is to decrease individual price by increasing overall sales volume. At a certain price floor, the price does not continue to drop. That is Massdrop's core business model, and it strikes a balance between benefiting both manufacturers and consumers. When the price and volume both go up, suddenly the balance shifts sharply in favor of the manufacturer.
Another way of looking at this is to classify these two drops as a single drop (since this is a Massdrop exclusive product that's only 6 months old, that's not too unreasonable), and see if it still makes sense.
0 sales| $350 5000 sales| $200 5001 sales | $250 12500 sales | $250
I'm simply saying that the general idea of a group buy is to decrease individual price by increasing overall sales volume. At a certain price floor, the price does not continue to drop. That is Massdrop's core business model, and it strikes a balance between benefiting both manufacturers and consumers. When the price and volume both go up, suddenly the balance shifts sharply in favor of the manufacturer.
Another way of looking at this is to classify these two drops as a single drop (since this is a Massdrop exclusive product that's only 6 months old, that's not too unreasonable), and see if it still makes sense.
0 sales| $350 5000 sales| $200 5001 sales | $250 12500 sales | $250
Vigrith
4081
Jun 26, 2017
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Theta_ZeroAgreed on most if not all fronts - my only qualm was with the nomenclature, I feel like drops like this can still be a part of Massdrop and/or use it as a platform even though there are no real "drop points" past the first mark.
A community member
Jun 28, 2017
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VigrithGuess some "other worldly" event did indeed manifest itself, that is,... unless my "delusions of grandeur" belie the $50 price drop in the last day or so,... ne c'est pas?? There are indeed none so "blind" (or maybe in your case "deaf") as those that will NOT see! The argument about "mass" consumer everything is a very old one Vigrith. One need not delve in to any more complication theory than to think Edison and his light bulb (and all his other "cosumer electrical devices") or Ford and his model "T."
Now, I don't claim to be from that era youngblood but I've been around enough decades to see EVERYTHING, consumer product related, not only drastically go down in price but also increase (in most cases) performance wise! Thanks for the verbal intercourse and clever repartee', mon cher.
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