Massdrop x Dan Durston X-Mid 1P Tentsearch

Massdrop x Dan Durston X-Mid 1P Tent

Massdrop x Dan Durston X-Mid 1P Tent

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Stickied
Thanks for checking out the X-Mid. As the designer, I think you'll find it's an awesome tent. The design combines first principles thinking, innovative ideas and extensive thru-hiking experience to create the ideal solo shelter. The goal with the X-Mid was to start with a clean sheet of paper and reason from there to create the best trekking pole supported solo shelter – one that offers maximal functionality, space, storm resistance and simplicity at the lowest weight. The end result is a design that "just works" when you're tired at the end of a long day and want a tent that pitches without fiddling, or when it's been raining all day and you want a tent that pitches without getting the inside wet, doesn't sag in the rain and gives you ample vestibule space to stow wet gear. The X-Mid sets a new standard for simple, lightweight functionality. The most fundamental - and thus first - design question was: What shape should form the tents base? Most trekking pole supported tents are based around hexagons or even more complicated shapes, but as the number of sides increase, so to does pitching complexity, number of seams, stakes and weight. Typically these complex tents require estimates of stake locations, angles, distances between stakes, pole lengths and pole positions. Setting that up can be fun in the backyard, but not fun in a rainstorm. The X-Mid is rooted in the philosophy that simpler is better, and thus eliminates this guesswork by opting for a rectangle base - by far the easiest shape to stake out. The challenge with the rectangle - and the reason why it hasn't been used more historically - is that it’s hard to implement a good trekking pole structure. Most prior rectangle based tents have been single pole pyramids (e.g MLD DuoMid), which are lauded for their simplicity, but lack headroom and the single pole in the center typically interferes with access or the living space. Other rectangle based designs have used two poles to improve living space, but these either have the two poles interfering in the living space (e.g. Black Diamond Beta Light) or alternatively, positioned the poles near the perimeter (e.g. Sierra Designs High Route 1) which removes the poles from the sleeping area, but also creates vertical wind catching walls, adds mandatory guylines to trip over and increases stake requirements. Reasoning from first principles, it was obvious that the ideal solo tent should use two poles to bolster living space since hikers commonly have two poles on hand anyways and it would be a shame not to utilize them, but how to achieve this while avoiding the common pit-falls was a design challenge that resonated in my head throughout my 2014 PCT thru-hike. It resonated again during my 2017 Great Divide Trail thru-hike until I realized a solution to all of these long standing issues with the X-Mid layout:
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The X-Mid layout starts with a unique idea: rotate the inner tent onto a diagonal inside the rectangular fly. No other tent in history has done this, but the diagonal inner creates vestibules and crucially, it allows for the two trekking poles to be positioned inwards from the edges of the fly yet without interfering with access or the living space. These pole locations form a ridgeline on the opposite diagonal as the diagonal inner, and thus the X-Mid becomes the first "double diagonal" tent design. These crossing diagonals of the ridgeline and inner within a rectangle form a unique layout which is the key innovation of the X-Mid and the inspiration behind its name. With the X-Mid layout, this tent pitches simply and robustly with only 4 stakes and no guylines, it provides excellent space, sheds wind and snow well with optimally sloping walls, has no poles interfering with the floor space or doorways, the fly shields the inner from falling rain even when the doors are open, and it offers class leading headroom, vestibule space and ease of entry at a lower weight than competing tents due to the more efficient geometry and minimal seams. If you look at metrics of design efficiency, such as surface area to volume ratios, or the seam length to volume ratios, you'll see that X-Mid exceeds any other tent out there, so it can provide more functionality for less weight. Compared to a single pole mid, the X-Mid pitches similarly quickly and weighs about the same, while offering dual doors, dual vestibules and vastly more living space. Compared to more complex trekking pole based designs, the X-Mid is a revelation in simplicity and matches or exceeds the living area of these shelters while being lighter, quicker to pitch and better in wet and snowy conditions. Due to its efficient geometry that minimizes seams, the X-Mid weighs just 28 oz fully seam taped even while offering dual doors, double wall protection, highly functional vents, expansive headroom, no sag fabric and dual generously sized vestibules. You won't find a lighter tent that offers all this. - Dan DurstonGear.com

https://youtu.be/U9vOLs12KQE

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Dan, Your design of the X-Mid 1P and 2P is just outstanding and refined,..... good design is "timeless"!! Your eye for detail, concern for the user experience and mind numbing attentiveness to hundreds of blog inquiries is without peer!! Your tents eliminate the complexity of pitching and provide an oasis for personal renewal and refreshment with spaciousness and functionality after a long day of hiking. Re: the 2P: May I urge you to consider making the interior width of the 2P 50", as I believe larger framed hikers with 44" + chests will need the extra width for their shoulders/arms to create personal space with tent mates and avoid contact with the interior screen walls. The few extra inches of campsite room are easy to find, by rotating the tent if needed. Once acclimated to the 2P, a user will be able to check for fit prior to pounding one stake since it's a rectangle. I meet more and more burly hikers as a thru hiker who need a 25" pad, I'm super excited about getting a 1P for myself, but am a Boy Scout adult leader in the U.S. I believe your tent will find strong appeal among scout troops, Scout camps, Philmont Scout ranch, canoe trippers as well as weekend family campers due to it's constellation of benefits: simplicity, ease of set up in the rain, cost, liberal vestibule and interior spaciousness, intuitive set up, durability, engineered tolerance and stability in wind and weather and particularly for impatient scouts- ease of ingress and egress with durable #5 zippers with no guy lines, weather permitting. Would love to discuss additional distribution models to meet other markets with you after the 2P drop is over, Thank you again!!!
Danluvstohike

@dafra Thanks for the feedback. Indeed "luxurious" isn't the target. I would say the aim is to create a "well rounded" ultralight tent, so it is as light as it can be without making major compromises in functionality (e.g. single wall, no vents, tiny) or durability (e.g. #3 zippers). As it pertains to size, I'd like it to be a reasonable size since riding out a rain storm in a tiny tent isn't fun, but I don't need it to be luxurious either - just reasonable. It seems like a lot of people consider 50" to be that, because we see most lightweight tents are typically 50" such as those from brands like TarpTent and even very light tents from bigger manufacturers are 50" (e.g. MSR Carbon Reflex 2). I think a little bit less would still be reasonable (47-48") but once you get down to 45" or less then it seems like many folks find that awfully small for two. So I wouldn't really say 50" is luxurious - that's only a few inches of additional width on each side of two 20" pads. Rather it's more typical for a lightweight/ultralight tent and then 55-60" for a 2P tent is luxurious. At this point, I'm leaning towards making the 2P about 50" and then perhaps in another year coming out with a DCF version of the 2P that is focused on being as light as possible so it will be smaller, single wall, less beefy etc. @Danluvstohike Thanks for your enthusiasm and kind words. Indeed hopefully people will find this tent to be an "oasis for personal renewal" and that is well received by a diversity of people such as the scouting folks. I think a lot of the benefits like the simple, intuitive pitch will be appeal to folks in every niche.
(Edited)
So is this thing gonna happen, or not? First it was February, then early March..... still nothing. Starting to worry that even if I'm lucky enough to get in on this drop, I won't get the tent in time for my trips. If they ship as late as they drop.... Hmmmmmmm. Guess I am not a patient person...🤔
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So this drop may be re-opened? Sweet!
uber_franz
Yeah it'll re-open sometime. I'm not sure exactly when because Massdrop decides that but do have some more coming around May so presumably sometime between now and then. I've asked them to do it sooner rather than later but I haven't heard a definite plan yet. If you've "requested" the drop then you'll get an email when it re-opens.
(Edited)
Open Sesame.....
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Bwilifo1
Abracadabra
Rockett
Hocus Pocus
im saw this tent and am interested. How much is it?
Ratman
Is there any place else that I can purchase it?
Ratman
Hi Ratman, The tent is $200. It’s only available here because it’s the result of a partnership between myself and Massdrop. Orders aren’t being accepted right now but more are on their way so I expect they will take more orders soon. If you click “request” on the drop page you’ll get an email when orders open.
(Edited)
UPDATE FOR THE JULY 2018 DROP Hi all! Wanted to share a quick update on the Massdrop x Dan Durston X-Mid 1P Tent. Production is underway and we’re on track to meet the expected ship date of April 19th. We can’t wait for you to receive and enjoy your tent. Stay tuned for another update soon!
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Additional orders from when the drop opens next will be somewhat behind that orders placed in the earlier drops, but you should still have the tent in time for the upcoming season. I think they will accept about 300 more orders in the next drop for tents shipping out around late May.
JaleesaG
Hi JaleesaG, Do you have any idea when the 300 additional tents will be released in a drop? I've been waiting and now will be working in remote village Alaska from March 18 to 29 with limited internet access. Did not want to miss it. Thank you.
To cut the long story short. In an earlier post you wrote that the production will be finished in mid-February ( https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-dan-durston-x-mid-1p-tent/talk/2287347?utm_source=linkshare&referer=W3L2MA ) So, mid-February was 3 weeks ago! Can you please confirm that the production has finished and when? Can Massdrop please confirm that the production has finished? Why didn‘t they do it already? I think this information should be shared to buyers. I’ m wondering why this hasn‘t happened yet. Because the production hasn‘t finished yet? That would mean that the April date is out of reach. I‘m sorry that you, Dan, are the guy that has to take all the critics and answer all the questions. But for us, the buyers who have paid several months ago and not getting confirmed updates, you are the only guy we can reach for a statement.
Kveite
Hi Kveite, I responded to your similar post on this topic here. Best, Dan
Has anyone received any update on when this is going to ship to those who bought in the first and second round. I only got my first email saying "Congrats on Joining" & says "order placed". Have they sent another email since? Information is slow to flow from Massdrop i guess.
Onomarn
Hi Onomarn, Check out this recent discussion here: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-dan-durston-x-mid-1p-tent/talk/2352565 But in short, there hasn't been communication from Massdrop but things appear to be on track to meet the estimated ship date or a bit sooner.
Hi Dan, Is there any chance, tents that were ordered early Dec. will make it to the purchaser by mid May? Upon reading some of the comments below. It appears that they may be ahead of schedule? The reason I ask is that i'm going for a 10 day hike in mid May and it would be great to test it out then. Cheers, -Kyle
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Sounds good! Thanks for the update.
I Joined the Dec. drop so it looks to be expected mid-late May unless they get a little earlier. I'd love to have it sooner, but I'd rather see them manufacture it to your standards than try to rush them out if it leads to production blips. Looking forward to it. You've really promoted this product well and shown endless patience in responding to all the various questions and comments and it looks like its sold pretty well for a product launch. I've actually learned a lot about shelters in reading through the comments and responses and its been really helpful. Thanks!
Hi Dan, Any news on the plan for offering matching poles? I can't wait to give this tent a spin as soon as I get it, and as I'll likely be cycling rather than hiking I figured I should plan ahead and arrange something soonish. If it's unlikely that either you or Massdrop (or another buyer?) will organize something this spring, I think it's best to start shopping myself. A slight complication is that Rota Locura is temporarily closed (for reasons that make me realize that my worry about poles is rather trivial...), because I like the idea of getting poles with shorter sections than most standard offerings. Anyway, thanks for the good work! Best, Robert-Jan
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That's nice the Zpacks ones are 5 pieces - I thought they were 3. It also looks easy to hacksaw it a bit shorter if you'd rather 47" rather than 48". The main downside with these poles is that they're non-adjustable, so if the ground is uneven you'll have to angle the pole more or less. Yes the X-Mid can pitch fine with handles up. These end caps look a little small so I'd make sure they're not sharp or anything, but they should be fine.
I've used a pair of balled up socks over the end of a stick to protect the tarp it was supporting. I'm sure you'll have no trouble figuring out something similar if needed. :)
Hey Dan do you have any idea what happened with the last 300 tents? Did they change their minds!? Haha
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Cool! I'm kind of glad they haven't dropped yet..I've been broke anyways.. Haha.
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Hi, just discovered this awesome looking tent this afternoon. It looks absolutely brilliant. What does "Drop Ended" mean? Have I missed out on the additional 300 tents ETD June or maybe May?? Thanks in advance, Scott in NZ
multisportscott
The drop for the last 300 is supposed to reopen in March. If you click request, you'll get an email notification when it opens.
Hi Dan, it’s Blazer again... I was just wondering if there is any news on the 2P? How is the prototyping going, do you have an idea when it’s going to drop yet, etc. I don’t mean to be pushy, I just have to budget and I need a new pack now too, so I am trying to plan. I know your probably swamped right now, just a ballpark idea would be helpful. Still counting down for the 1P! It’s getting close! (I must sound pretty greedy, I’m really not, Just excited!)
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That's what I meant by "hardcore users". During December to February there's the Aussies sauntering around in the sun and then us hardcore Canadians ;)
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dandurston
I must try some sauntering. Is that a bit like a swagger? I’ll try both. Too bloody hot in summer though, more like sweltering than sauntering. Unless you’re in Tassie.
I am beyond excited for this tent! Just stumbled on it on Youtube and will DEFINITELY be trying to get one! Would love to offer a video review on my Youtube Channel for it!
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I was THIS close to coughing up the cash for a Zpacks Arc Haul, but when the Granite Gear X60 (crown 2) came to my attention I snapped it up for $119. Figured I couldn't lose. I'll be posting a short video on youtube (outdoor johnny) on the reasons why.
OutdoorJohnny
Yah I'm not ready to go as minimalist (or as costly) with the arc haul. To me the GGC2 is the perfect in-between a classic internal frame and a frameless. So I'm stoked!
What is the price for this tent I'm looking for the price the tent itself is very well-designed and I also like the fact that you do not have to open the tent up to insert your trekking poles in heavy rain or downpours you just got to slite opening for each side and very few stakes required all in all I'm guessing this is a 48 second tent very impressed again what is the price
CgriggsIV
The price is $200.
As an original purchaser some eight months ago (July the 9th) I would really like an update. I have had no correspondence or update from Massdrop, as the agents for the Xmid at all, and I suppose I would like something to confirm that my shelter is on the way and at least, on time. Can someone there confirm the date will be met? I must be honest, the prospective unmet recent date for buyers that have yet to pay any money, is causing some uncertainty.
(Edited)
LamontCranston
Hi Lamont, The estimated ship date for tents ordered in that first drop (July) was April 19, 2019 and I believe Massdrop is on track on to meet this. All the dates were met in relation to getting the design and materials to the manufacturer on time, and the manufacturer is very experienced in meeting deadlines (they've been in business for 60 years making nothing but tents, and they make 400,000 per year for major customers like MSR), so I expect they will complete production on time. The last I heard things were looking a bit ahead of schedule (e.g. 1-2 weeks). I suspect Massdrop is hesitant to give an update that provides any detail until they know for sure, because they wouldn't want to come out and say that it's early and then they hit a delay and it's late etc. I did talk to them recently and they clearly intend to meet this April 19 date and seemed to be comfortably on track to do so. So I don't know the details of where things are at with production, but everything looks to be on track to meet that estimated ship date. That's actually coming up pretty soon (finally!) at only 8 weeks away (compared to 8-9 months), so I'm looking forward to everyone getting these. Thanks for your support.
dandurston
Ta Dan. Glad to support you and your excellent design. Just found it strange that there are/were no updates from Massdrop, especially as you say, the big day draws near!
For those wondering, the next drop for these is still TBD but is likely to happen in early March. The good news is that production is ahead of schedule so Massdrop should have 300 more ready to ship in May rather than June as previously thought. These 300 will be the last ones for a long while. My estimate is that they will sell out in about 2 weeks, so click “request” if you want an email notification when orders open.
(Edited)
dandurston
Very cool, thanks for keeping us updated Dan!
(Edited)
Hey Dan, If massdrop lets you know what there doing with the 25 tents from the last drop (is selling the overstock somewhere else or just shipping out to people who purchase the new drop) could you please let me know? Looking for a new tent for May so the June ship date is just a little too far off for me. Will definitely purchase one for next season but wanted to see if I may be able to get one a little earlier. My fault for not seeing this amazing product in Dec. 🤦🏽‍♀️ Thanks!
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SV27
To follow up on this, the next 300 tents are ahead of schedule in production so everyone buying one of these is going to get a May tent (instead of June) so no worries. If anyone misses out on these 300 it's going to be a long while.
(Edited)
dandurston
Awesome! Thanks Dan, I really appreciate the update!
Well, it just hit 3k requests! And only 300 are being made? The odds aren't looking too awful good it seems...
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Ahh, well that's quite a bit better, I'll remain hopeful then! lol Thanks!
Glenn825
Yeah the requests were at 2035 leading into the December drop, so there are about 1000 new requests thus far. Leading into the December drop there was 750 new requests and 300 took three weeks to sell, so my guess is these 300 will sell out in about 2 weeks if they open it soon. Shouldn’t be a panic.
Is there another drop coming soon? I should have bought before...
Flyfishermanmike
Hi Mike, There is another drop coming. Massdrop has 300 more tents on the way for delivery around June, so they are for sure going to be selling them sometime between now and then. They were planning to do this drop in early Feb but apparenty the scheduling didn't work out on that. The latest I've heard is that there will be another drop "soon" but not an exact date. These 300 tents will sell out pretty quickly but it'll still take about 2 weeks, so no big panic. If you are interested in one with a June ship date, then you can click "request" on the main X-Mid page and you'll get an email when it drops.
Can we expect a partial mesh inner option for the next drop (I don't mean the upcoming 300 one)? Looking forward to it!
Muddeer
It is likely that we will be able offer a solid inner (e.g. 90% solid. 10% mesh) for the future production runs of the 1P, but it's a fair ways off. I don't know the precise timing as it's Massdrop's call, but hopefully we'd launch something like this in fall 2019 for delivery in spring 2020.
Will it ever drop? Stop playing with my heart, Massdrop!
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Oh good to know! I'll go back to sleeping in for now, and I'm so glad to hear the ship date will be May. Thanks again for all the updates Dan!
Much appreciated on the update!
@dandurston When/If a DCF version of the 1P X-Mid gets made, would you offer (or consider offering) an option to purchase just the DCF Fly for those that get the current X-Mid? I prefer a silpoly/silnylon inner, but the DCF Fly would be killer.
DanRigsby
Hi Dan, The short answer is yet but it won't be available anytime soon. A DCF version is in the early stages of development, but it is going to be a single wall so the floor will be an integrated component. I would like to do a double wall DCF version as well, but that's not under development at this point so it's likely years off if it ever happens. I do like the idea of a silpoly floor within a DCF fly. If a tent uses 1.0oz DCF for the floor then it's hardly lighter than 1.2oz silpoly (saves about 0.5oz on the tent) yet it's a lot more expensive and less durable (a groundsheet could be used but it would more than negate any weight savings). So a double wall X-Mid with a DCF fly and silpoly floor would be a great premium setup. It might weigh 20oz but obviously would cost a lot more. If a double wall DCF X-Mid is developed in the next couple years, I would like to offer just the fly, but if you bought that you'd have two fly's on hand unless you could find a buyer for your poly fly. You might be better off just to sell your ~2-3 year old X-Mid as a complete package and then buy the DCF double wall that would likely be spec'd with the poly floor anyways.
(Edited)
Forgive me if this has already been addressed, but how does this compare to the latest SD High Route? It looks like the HR might be slightly lighter (~1oz) but doing so with less overall space, less head room, less vestubule space etc. HR is also Sil-Nylon and appears to have vertical walls which I would assume would be less storm worthy. Anything else major I am missing?
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ajdenittis
Hi ajdenittis, I've written a few posts on this (links at the end of this comment) but basically the X-Mid seeks to avoid the main downsides to the HR, which are the vertical walls (catch wind), reliance on guylines, and lack of vestibule area. So an easy way to think about the structural differences are that the X-Mid takes the High Route and widens it substantially (67" vs 42" width), rotates the inner onto a diagonal within that wider rectangle to create vestibules, and then takes advantage of this floor plan to move the peaks inward from the edges so that the shape is simpler (no mandatory guylines), more stormworthy and more volumetrically efficient (more space from about the same amount of fabric). For 2019 Sierra's Designs have revised the High Route to make the weight more competitive (27oz instead of 36oz) which is a huge improvement. To do so, they are using lighter materials, making it much smaller and less featured. So now it is about same weight as the X-Mid (27oz vs 28, but it requires two more stakes so it's pretty much a tie). Here is a properly scaled comparison of these tents:
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With the smaller/lighter 2019 High Route, the X-Mid is no longer far lighter like it was compared with the old High Route, but instead is larger, more functional and more fully featured for about the same weight. So the advantages of the X-Mid over the 2019 High Route are: - more wind resistant shape - vastly more vestibule area (tons vs almost none) - two doors (vs one) - two vents (vs one) - simpler pitch without guylines and only 4 stakes (vs 6). - uses polyester that doesn't sag in the rain - more headroom (43 vs 40" inner height) - more floor area (slightly longer and slightly wider) - more durable floor material (20D vs 15D) - higher HH fabric The main advantage to the High Route is that it can pitch in really small sites. Some have said that nylon is stronger than poly, but this difference is only 15-20% for the same weight of fabric and the HR uses a lighter weight of fabric (15D vs 20D) so while no one has compared these fabrics side by side, on paper the X-Mid should be at least as strong. Here's some other posts on this topic, but they mostly say the same thing (and discuss the pre-2019 High Route): https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-dan-durston-x-mid-1p-tent/talk/2131280
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-dan-durston-x-mid-1p-tent/talk/2132508
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-dan-durston-x-mid-1p-tent/talk/2153891
(Edited)
dandurston
Awesome! Thank you so much for the comprehensive response. This exactly what I was looking for. I'll be buying the x-mid on the next drop.
Dan - I just wanted to drop a line to say that I built a 2P tent based on your X Mid design (with a couple of notable changes to fit my desires) and although I've only pitched it in the livingroom to date (a lot of snow out there right now) it really is a great design that simplifies pitching to the max. Thanks for coming up with the design, and for giving such comprehensive info on it. I appreciate it.
(Edited)
Dan_H
Neat. Got any pictures? It would be interesting to read your story if you posted it on a MYOG forum. Indeed it’s hard to get outside with all the snow. Fingers crossed for spring soon.
(Edited)
Patiently waiting. Well, not so patiently. As “early February” should have come by now.
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Hi, I am also very interested but I have no clue at what pricepoint this tent will be sold. Can you give a rough figure?!? Thanks in advance.
mcpaw
MASSDROP ANNOUNCES DAN DURSTON X MID TENT, 28 OZ, $199

Hey Dan, any updates on the 300 to be released ? How soon do you expect them to sell out once they drop? I am wondering if I should be checking the site daily or hourly ;)
(Edited)
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I heard back from Massdrop and they have been busy so they didn't get the next drop fully scheduled yet. The UL team has requested a drop ASAP but the scheduling team is still sorting out exactly when. They are supposed to get back to me when it's finalized. So I can't see it happening this week. Hopefully next week.
(Edited)
dandurston
Oh good to hear, I've been on tenter hooks all week! Fingers crossed for early next week!
Hi Dan, If using fixed length 48" CF poles, will tilting the pole to lower the overall height to ~46" make them more susceptible to damage due to the forces being applied at an angle instead of down the length of the tube? Would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!
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If I do the trigonometry on a 48" pole versus a 46.5 pole, the base shifts 12", not 4-6". At what point does a longer pole become too long for this design? Given that the design requires inverted tips-up poles, the handles will become vulnerable to slipping at some point. I'm now realizing that the X-Mid may not work with my current poles (Black Diamond Z style non-adjustable) since they are 51" (I'm 6'3"). Such poles will need to be offset 21" = a 24deg angle. I'm skeptical that they would stay in place.
Inertiaman
First, kudos for actually doing the trigonometry. My 4-6" statement was an estimate that obviously wasn't that accurate. When I do the trigonometry I also get 11.9" base for right angled triangle with a 46.5" height and 48" hypotenuse. One thing to clarify is that the design doesn't require the poles to be tips up. It allows for this, but it can easily pitch handles up too. The grommets are located as high up as possible (without the tips damaging the tent) because that is better structurally (e.g. top of pole is closer to the peak where the main forces meet) but this also means it's no problem to pitch handles up. So you could pitch handles up, and also push your tips into the dirt by an inch or two which would have the advantages of (1) securing the bottoms of the poles in place and (2) shortening the height discrepancy. Certainly you don't want the bottom of the pole sliding out, but otherwise I don't think a 12" offset is a big concern structurally as my earlier diagram shows (e.g. the Nemo Veda is designed with what appears to be a huge offset - perhaps 25 - 30" - and reviews find it robust). One other variable is how high you pitch the tent. The fly has about 10" of cord at each corner which acts as basically an extension of the fly in a pitch. The length of this cord is adjustable (with LineLoc3's). I normally pitch it fairly short because I like my fly pretty close to the ground for maximal wind blocking, but most tents can't come this low to the ground so if you pitched it higher it would still be quite good here relatively. If you extend the cord you can lift the fly up so it pitches at more like 48 peaks. To sum it up, 51" poles is pushing it seemingly, although I haven't tried it. I suspect they would work fine if you used some or most of these tricks (handles up, dig the tip in an inch, maybe pitch it up an inch higher) but if you simply pitched it tips up normally that would be quite an angle on the pole and the handle would be at risk of slipping out.
(Edited)
Can't wait for mine to arrive. Hoping to have it for my May trip to Killarney's La Cloche trail. Question for you Dan if you see this.... Do you recommend a groundsheet? I was going to just use a sheet of polycryo. Would you think that would be sufficient protection? I've thought that it might be awkward to lay groundsheet prior to setup because of the way the floor is diagonal. Congrats on the tent BTW. I've told everyone I know that goes backpacking about your design. Fellow Canadian here wishing you continued success with future designs. http://durstongear.com/ looks great - bookmarked and waiting for the X-Mid 2P
Knuckleduster
Thanks for the support Knuckleduster! I've got fond memories of the La Cloche Trail. Back in 2008 it was my first time ever trying to go ultralight. I picked up a GoLite backpack and since my friend and I didn't want to lug our 7 lbs tent, we just brought the fly and planned to roll up in it like burritos if it rained. It never did, so we just cowboy camped. 5 days for the ~85 km seemed crazy intense at the time (the wardens stamped "high risk" on our permit) but then near the end we got humbled by someone doing the whole thing in a day. To answer your questions though, no I don't recommend a groundsheet. Poly is more abrasion resistant than nylon, so a 20D poly floor is fine on its own for normal use (e.g. camping on dirt after making sure there aren't stick and sharp stones on the site). It's not bombproof, but you could easily put hundreds of nights on it with reasonable care. It's about as durable as 30D nylon, which many many folks including myself have put hundreds of nights on without issue. The problem with groundsheets (besides adding weight) is that they add hassle and they often stick out from under the tent and then rain pools on them and runs under the floor, which is a serious challenge for any tent floor. So I think they're clumsy and a wiser approach is to spec a floor that is durable enough for normal use without one of these, so that's what I've done with the X-Mid. I've personally never used a groundsheet with it, and never had any floor damage or signs of wear. Some tents look lighter because they use crazy light floors like 0.5oz DCF or 7D nylon, but then you need a groundsheet so you're not really lighter. But there are circumstances where one might be wise. If you're front country camping on sharp gravel pads, or camped on bare granite, then one would be good. For this, I would cut one the same shape as the floor and then connect it to the four corners of the floor (with clips or knots or something) so it stays in place and doesn't creep out from under the fly. Thanks again for your support! The 2P is going to be really nice. I'm excited to get it out there.
(Edited)
Hi Dan, What kind of stakes will we get with the tent?
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Following that thought, maybe consider to offer the next batch of last 300 units without the included stakes? It will definitely help to push me towards the "buy" button. Thanks, I appreciate the time you take to answer everyone's questions here.
riido
It's amazing how hard it can be to make changes once a production run is underway. If a design has been approved for production, then the factory is resistant to any changes - even very simple ones - because they want those to go through the design team for quality control reasons, which adds delay and extra cost. For example, the 6th generation prototype of the X-Mid 1P was finally perfect except for one extremely minor thing: they tossed in a 50' bundle of extra guyline along with the tent. Since the tent already has guylines on it, there really is no need for a hank of extra cord. I thought it was a bit wasteful to give everyone guyline they don't need so I asked if they could simply leave this out. The answer was that they could but this would delay everything because it would have to go through the design team to make another sample and ship it to us for approval. So we approved the 6th generation prototype and everyone is getting some extra cord. It seems a bit bit ridiculous they couldn't simply make this change, but I sort of understand. When working with overseas production, language is always a barrier so there is a risk that my request to leave out the extra guyline might get mis-translated into leaving the guylines off the tent or something like that. So it's a quality control thing - they never want to make changes that affect production without showing them to us for approval. And that means delays, cost and making more sample products etc. As it pertains to potentially omitting the stakes, the stakes are added by the factory when they package up tent so they are part of the approved design. This upcoming batch of 300 tents are part of the same production run as the first 1000, so they use the same approved design. Production is well underway, so it would be incredibly difficult/slow/expensive to make changes now for what type or how many of stakes are included. Also, these stakes are pretty basic titanium ones because I didn't want to spec anything too fancy when users will often have something else they prefer. So the cost on them is quite low such that omitting them wouldn't change the price more than a few dollars.
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Just curious if anyone who ordered in the fall has heard of any production updates and it if its on schedule to deliver in the spring. Don't want to sound impatient just excited to try it out :)
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"ship out in late December" Typo?
SGale
Whoops...yes a typo. Fixed to late April! That's not 100% for sure, but the best guess that I've heard. The estimated ship date was April 19 for the first drop and then May 24 for the following drops, so Massdrop at least wants to hit those dates, but quite likely they'll ship out over the course of 2 weeks in the second half of April.