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BetaWar
191
Mar 27, 2018
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timothomThese are supposed to be better than the 6XX, and I actually wound up ordering both (the 6XX is currently the best headphones I own... at least until these arrive) so I could compare them and see what I like better.
Based purely on a specs side of things, the frequency response graphs appear to be more flat than the 6XX's, but that only means that they are more true to the original recording, and even there towards the high end it appears that they simply have different distortions than those provided by the 6XXs, so at least some of whether they are better or not will be determined by personal preference.
Based off of initial reports, the Elex is supposed to have a larger (though, once again without having them here to compare at the moment I don't know by how much) sound stage, and with any luck they have better imaging (positioning of sound within the stage) in comparison to the 6XXs since that is one thing that can be lacking in my (relatively limited) experience with the 6XXs.
Even if the sound and responsiveness of the Elex is the exact same as the 6XX, I would claim them to be a large step up if the sound stage is in fact broadened appropriately (I would _love_ to see the sound stage doubled, if not tripled for instance) and the imaging is improved upon. You can definitely expect a comparison between them and the 6XX from me, and likely others when they arrive and we have had a chance to get some hours on them.
Now, all of that being said, if you don't currently own a pair of the 6XXs, I would suggest picking them up at some point. They have pretty good sound, though obviously I believe that their sound stage and imaging could use some work. Easily worth $200 though, even with their shortcomings. I am hoping I feel the Elexs are worth their price tag as well...
Based purely on a specs side of things, the frequency response graphs appear to be more flat than the 6XX's, but that only means that they are more true to the original recording, and even there towards the high end it appears that they simply have different distortions than those provided by the 6XXs, so at least some of whether they are better or not will be determined by personal preference.
Based off of initial reports, the Elex is supposed to have a larger (though, once again without having them here to compare at the moment I don't know by how much) sound stage, and with any luck they have better imaging (positioning of sound within the stage) in comparison to the 6XXs since that is one thing that can be lacking in my (relatively limited) experience with the 6XXs.
Even if the sound and responsiveness of the Elex is the exact same as the 6XX, I would claim them to be a large step up if the sound stage is in fact broadened appropriately (I would _love_ to see the sound stage doubled, if not tripled for instance) and the imaging is improved upon. You can definitely expect a comparison between them and the 6XX from me, and likely others when they arrive and we have had a chance to get some hours on them.
Now, all of that being said, if you don't currently own a pair of the 6XXs, I would suggest picking them up at some point. They have pretty good sound, though obviously I believe that their sound stage and imaging could use some work. Easily worth $200 though, even with their shortcomings. I am hoping I feel the Elexs are worth their price tag as well...
VRacer111
491
Mar 27, 2018
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timothomWell going off what I'm experiencing with the Elear, an Elex will sound NOTHING like an HD6XX...
HD6XX: Laid back, slightly hazy, smooth, rolled off at both ends, pacifist headphone you can listen to indefinitely
Elear: In-your-Face, extreme clarity, INSANELY dynamic, extreme extension at both ends, aggressive headphone that is not for long listening sessions. A tube amp might be highly recommended... I don't have a tube amp to try with the Elear though.
A modded TH-X00PH is what you use to calm down after listening to the Elear... LOL
HD6XX: Laid back, slightly hazy, smooth, rolled off at both ends, pacifist headphone you can listen to indefinitely
Elear: In-your-Face, extreme clarity, INSANELY dynamic, extreme extension at both ends, aggressive headphone that is not for long listening sessions. A tube amp might be highly recommended... I don't have a tube amp to try with the Elear though.
A modded TH-X00PH is what you use to calm down after listening to the Elear... LOL
timothom
85
Mar 27, 2018
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VRacer111I think I'm more interested in the Mr Speakers Aeon. Be nice to have planar instead of dynamic for different sound over the 6xx
VRacer111
491
Mar 27, 2018
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alvargYeah, if the Elex fixes the highs it will be VERY good - highs are just plain weird on the Elear after listening to it for 6 hours last night. The bass on the Elear is absolutely perfect though, would be a bummer to lose any of it.
scottoo
27
Mar 27, 2018
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VRacer111Pacifist - love that :)
I had a chance to listen to the Elears recently with iPhone, ifi 3.0 usb and mojo. The ifi cleans up the space around images, which was a bit distracting - almost static like without. I was transfixed with all the treble clarity and detail. the bass was quite present. I listened later to my 650's, and the difference was like listening through gauze... I have readjusted and they sound just fine again :)
The edges of notes are more distinct with the Elear, but that might also be the mojo a bit too having compared it to my other dac on the main system. The Senn's are rounded on the edges of sounds.
Jackula
1743
Mar 27, 2018
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timothomAll reports indicate the Elex is similar sound signature to the Utopia but less refined. I guess the term "super HD650" is just the best term MD could come up with, but having heard the Utopia, I do not agree.
Although they share some similar characteristics, like smoothness and natural soundstage, they have a completely different sound. The most obvious being the dark sound of the HD6XX and the bright sound of the Utopia. The Utopia has also got a larger soundstage, has a sweeter treble and is more resolving.
The HD6XX is a seriously good headphone. Although not technically superior like many flagships, their enjoyability factor is off the scale (at least for me).
I enjoy these two headphones equally. But when I start thinking about my wallet, my preferences start leaning towards the HD6XX :) If I ever get bored of the HD6XX, the Utopia is the only headphone I would consider a worthy replacement.
Although they share some similar characteristics, like smoothness and natural soundstage, they have a completely different sound. The most obvious being the dark sound of the HD6XX and the bright sound of the Utopia. The Utopia has also got a larger soundstage, has a sweeter treble and is more resolving.
The HD6XX is a seriously good headphone. Although not technically superior like many flagships, their enjoyability factor is off the scale (at least for me).
I enjoy these two headphones equally. But when I start thinking about my wallet, my preferences start leaning towards the HD6XX :) If I ever get bored of the HD6XX, the Utopia is the only headphone I would consider a worthy replacement.
timothom
85
Mar 27, 2018
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JackulaAfter listening to my 6xx for almost 2 weeks on a Magni 3, I am still getting kicks out of listening to old stuff I love and hearing new things.
I know alot of people that like to pair the 6xx with something warm like a tube amp, but I dunno. The 6xx seems warm and soft at both ends, and the midrange is obviously the most pronounced. I think a good trasnparent soild state amp is a great match for the 6xx. I also have a modi multibit that may be adding just enough warmth.
You have convinced me to save my money on the Elex and enjoy what I have right now for many moons....
I know alot of people that like to pair the 6xx with something warm like a tube amp, but I dunno. The 6xx seems warm and soft at both ends, and the midrange is obviously the most pronounced. I think a good trasnparent soild state amp is a great match for the 6xx. I also have a modi multibit that may be adding just enough warmth.
You have convinced me to save my money on the Elex and enjoy what I have right now for many moons....
LJPR
1
Mar 29, 2018
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PixieUber is a Sigma-Delta DAC, like the vast majority of the DACs out there Multibit DACs are touted to be superior because they preserve the original PCM samples.
Of course you have to compare apples to apples. You can’t expect an “entry level“ multibit DAC to be on the same league as a High End Sigma-Delta DAC like let’s say, Chord Hugo 2.
Modi Multibit is an amazing bang for the buck. Check around and the the mimby reviews are in general quite positive. I wouldn’t hesitate to pay for the difference If you’re already Considering the uber. I have it on my setup along a Mjolnir 2 and HD800S / HD650.
more info on multibit here, second post is great. https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/643438-what-does-a-multibit-dac-do/
Of course you have to compare apples to apples. You can’t expect an “entry level“ multibit DAC to be on the same league as a High End Sigma-Delta DAC like let’s say, Chord Hugo 2.
Modi Multibit is an amazing bang for the buck. Check around and the the mimby reviews are in general quite positive. I wouldn’t hesitate to pay for the difference If you’re already Considering the uber. I have it on my setup along a Mjolnir 2 and HD800S / HD650.
more info on multibit here, second post is great. https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/643438-what-does-a-multibit-dac-do/
timothom
85
Mar 29, 2018
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PixieThe method of the conversion of digital audio (PCM, pulse coded modulation) is done by a series of electrical resistors instead of a 1-bit delta-sigma integrated circuit. I'm somewhat of an EE guy and I find this exotic design enticing. So...mostly because geek stuff. It's harder to implement, and filtering requires a DSP and a custom program which Schiit calls their MegaComboBurrito. I respect Schiit's decision to sell so much of their work for this cheap.
In terms of sound, it sounds a LITTLE bit different from the Modi Uber. The difference is slight, but noticeable when you A/B test it. The Multibit also measures out quite a bit noiser than a Delta-Sigma DAC, but I can't hear it. I am glad I went Multibit, it and I think it's worth spending the extra 100 bucks on over the Modi 2 Uber...
I also use the SPDIF inputs. They are hooked to my Oppo DVD player. I use it to play CDs. They sound quite a bit better than Spotify Premium, which is my main source.
In terms of sound, it sounds a LITTLE bit different from the Modi Uber. The difference is slight, but noticeable when you A/B test it. The Multibit also measures out quite a bit noiser than a Delta-Sigma DAC, but I can't hear it. I am glad I went Multibit, it and I think it's worth spending the extra 100 bucks on over the Modi 2 Uber...
I also use the SPDIF inputs. They are hooked to my Oppo DVD player. I use it to play CDs. They sound quite a bit better than Spotify Premium, which is my main source.
LJPR
1
Mar 29, 2018
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timothomyou should give Tidal premium a try! It offers CD quality or higher. Not that the extra 8 bits can be handled by the mimby without being rounded but the higher sample rates are welcome.
I feed my mimby via coaxial with a hifiberry digi pro / raspberry 3 running Volumio. The raspberry serves as an UPnP renderer that you can control (and play Tidal content) by using any phone or tablet . You require an app like mconnect (iOS) or bubble UPnP (android).
I think it’s a very sleek - space saving -energy friendly setup.
by the way, many consider that in general, a multibit DAC performance is quite affected by its temperature. I agree with this, to my ears, mimby sounds different if ran from a cold start or if it has several hours/days on. Therefore my advice is just leave it on all the time. For the 4.5 Watts it consumes it’s worth IMO.
I feed my mimby via coaxial with a hifiberry digi pro / raspberry 3 running Volumio. The raspberry serves as an UPnP renderer that you can control (and play Tidal content) by using any phone or tablet . You require an app like mconnect (iOS) or bubble UPnP (android).
I think it’s a very sleek - space saving -energy friendly setup.
by the way, many consider that in general, a multibit DAC performance is quite affected by its temperature. I agree with this, to my ears, mimby sounds different if ran from a cold start or if it has several hours/days on. Therefore my advice is just leave it on all the time. For the 4.5 Watts it consumes it’s worth IMO.
BetaWar
191
Mar 29, 2018
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LJPRInteresting. I will have to give that a shot. So far I have been turning my stack off each time I have finished listening to music. Sadly, leaving it on will make my room 2-LEDs closer to this:
timothom
85
Mar 29, 2018
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LJPRI've seen many posts on the internet where people talk about leaving their Mimby on all the time. While it is true that Analog devices resistor ladder chip does produce different data at different temperatures, this affect is greatly experienced on Schiit's balanced setups with the 20 bit (Yggy) and the 18 bit in the Gumby. These devices 4 have of these resistor ladder chips configured in a full hardware balanced out array (2 channels stereo and one chip per phase, so one doing the + side of the speaker, and one doing the - side). In this configuration, temperature differences between the chips is much more noticeable than a 1-chip unbalanced configuration like the Mimby and Bitfrost. In addition, the 16-bit Analog devices chip is a simpler piece of silicon and has more uniform analog output over a wide range of temperatures.
So I don't leave my Mimby on all the time. After it warms up for 10 or 15 minutes each morning, I very much believe that it sounds the same as if I were to leave it on 24/7. Speaking from an EE engineering perspective, the Yggy is a F-22 raptor, and the Mimby is 1985 Chevy S-10.
But if running your Mimby all the time makes you happy, then go for it.
So I don't leave my Mimby on all the time. After it warms up for 10 or 15 minutes each morning, I very much believe that it sounds the same as if I were to leave it on 24/7. Speaking from an EE engineering perspective, the Yggy is a F-22 raptor, and the Mimby is 1985 Chevy S-10.
But if running your Mimby all the time makes you happy, then go for it.
LJPR
1
Mar 29, 2018
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timothomYeah I agree with you, maybe leaving it on all the time is a little bit overkill for what it is. I’ve considered using something like a wemo plug in switch so it turns on maybe a couple of hours before my usual listening time, but to Keep it simple I just leave it on along with the raspberry.
My amp on the other hand I do turn it on 15 minutes before using it. That bastard consumes 40 watts on its own.
Right now replacing the mimby with a Gumby is the only thing that separates me from my end of game setup. IMO doing the intermediate upgrade to Bimby isn’t worth it. I’ve to Finish paying my latest acquisitions first so it’s going to take a while.
My amp on the other hand I do turn it on 15 minutes before using it. That bastard consumes 40 watts on its own.
Right now replacing the mimby with a Gumby is the only thing that separates me from my end of game setup. IMO doing the intermediate upgrade to Bimby isn’t worth it. I’ve to Finish paying my latest acquisitions first so it’s going to take a while.
timothom
85
Mar 29, 2018
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LJPRCompletely agree with you on the Bimby upgrade. I would love to hear a Gumby sometime. My concern would be my sources. I'm just not sure that with my setup a Gumby would sound much different than a Bimby with Spotify premium. With my CD player, I bet I could hear a difference. Hell even on my Mimby the difference is night and day vs USB spotify.
Perhaps I will give a Tidal a try next week.
Perhaps I will give a Tidal a try next week.
timothom
85
Mar 29, 2018
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LJPRDoes the mimby USB have all that good stuff they have in the wyrd and etr?
alvarg
235
Apr 1, 2018
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BetaWarfrequency response graphs do little to tell you how a headphone will sound to be honest, i don't know if there is any measurement apart from maybe square waves that would give an accurate result. I've seen headphones with frequency response graphs showing rolled off treble only to find the headphones are extremely bright, because the distance your ear is to the driver also affects the sound
tunejunky
24
Apr 4, 2018
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alvargyou are quite wrong in one way while being partially right - frequency response is CRUCIAL to ANY audio device, but *the distance* from the driver IS a huge variable...and one that Focal has eliminated. ALL Focal headsets, regardless of price, use the same metric for distance between driver and ear.
their EL CHEAPO headset (under $200) blows away $400 planar cans.
tunejunky
24
Apr 4, 2018
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alvargthat is why people need to understand what specifications *are*.
for example, *no* other manufacturer QC's to the extent of Focal's +/- 0.5dB *anywhere* let alone the extended range above and below human hearing.
that is quite simply because of the materials science that Focal has invested in.
Most, if not *all* other headphones roll off a *minimum* of 3dB *somewhere* if not 6-12dB.
that is, in other words, *coloration*. which *may or may not* be pleasing, but it is *not* the recording.
alvarg
235
Apr 6, 2018
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tunejunkyalthough i'm a little confused of what your talking about when it comes to the 3db or 6-12 db roll off. when the QC of +/- 0.5dB you mentioned above is talking about driver matching being within 0.5 decibels, it has nothing to do with coloration or any frequency roll off, at least this was my understanding.
tunejunky
24
Apr 6, 2018
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alvargyou do not understand correctly, which has been my ongoing point.
when a driver is QC'd +/- 0.5db from below human hearing to above human hearing that is called a "flat response". driver responses are *usually* CURVES, not flat lines.
human hearing is measured in decibels (dB) which is a logarithmic measure...Meaning it takes TEN times the power to be TWICE as loud...so +/- 0.5dB is a *remarkable* achievement, let alone a QC standard.
with that said, *ANY* deviation from 0dB from 20Hz-20kHz is *Coloration*.
and since you cannot perceive any difference between 0dB and 0.5dB, Focal manufactures the *most accurate* headset (by far) On The Market.
which doesn't mean you will like it.
it just means that this headset can do what no other make can do - absolute accuracy across, above, and below human hearing by repeated measurement...which qualifies this as a scientific device if you want to go there.
alvarg
235
Apr 6, 2018
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tunejunkyForgive me if im being naive its just that you say +/-0.5dB across entire spectrum so does that mean your implying that these headphones have an almost ruler flat frequency response as in almost no coloration to music. Cause if so which then why would they say " They’re now wrapped in perforated microfiber to bring the bass down to a tasteful emphasis: ~3 dB above neutral, compared to the 5 to 10 dB of the Elear " in the description, and also state " All its drivers are QCed to within 0.5-decibel tolerances." which again to me doesn't seem to mean every single frequency it produces is within 0.5 decibels of neutral but just that all drivers they make are measured to be within 0.5 decibels of each other across all frequencies, not that these are the most sonically accurate headphones ever.
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