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Showing 1 of 36 conversations about:
dolljoints
155
May 7, 2018
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Awezomenezz
9
May 7, 2018
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dolljointsIndeed it is quite ironic, as the main selling point of the caps is that they're made with the original cherry tooling which is many decades old.
droideggs
30
May 7, 2018
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dolljointshow is PBT 'old fashioned' ?
one advantage PBT has over ABS from my understanding is that its more textured (more grip) and does not get 'keyshine' over time.
golden_bull_95
75
May 7, 2018
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dolljointsso by that logic we shoud all use rubber domes by now then cuz mechanical switches is so 1980s right ?? And dell/apple been bringing out new sleek design instead of bulky mechanical keebs ???
dolljoints
155
May 7, 2018
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droideggsit's an old material. all modern materials are. PBT isn't a modern invention. like i said in my comment, i love PBT. i'm actually using PBT keys right now. but it's weird for me to see this company acting like it's a hugely modern cool thing. especially on a retro keyset made with (as i learned from another comment), cherry's original tooling. the entire process is 80s. why not embrace it instead of shun it?
dolljoints
155
May 7, 2018
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dolljointsi've got to say, i didn't expect people defensively replying to this. i certainly didn't expect people to somehow think i'm saying that all mechanical keyboards are bad? or that i think PBT is a bad material? the keyboard i'm writing this on right now has dyesub PBT keys. i'm waiting on the galaxy-class keyset, which also does.
i thought as keyboard heads we understood that newer isn't always better. old keyboards are still built like tanks when modern mechanical keyboards usually aren't. they use really cool switches like hall effect or beamspring, which have rated lifetimes that leave ALPS and cherry MX in the dust. some of them have hugely thick circuit board traces, made of silver or gold because longevity and quality of use in an industrial setting was the top priority.
no matter how you slice it, injection moulding is an old fashioned process now. it was pioneered in the 60s. it's so well-optimised that it's one of the cheapest (in the economics sense, not the judgmental-about-quality sense) ways you can manufacture things today, even though in the 60s injection moulded plastic furniture cost more than handmade wooden or metal ones.
lots of us keyboard fans also like things like old hifi equipment. the best cassette machines are the ones from the 80s and 90s, not recent releases. lots of us know how older equipment that was built with heavy toggle switches and clicky stepper dials is satisfying. lots of us miss vacuum-fluorescent displays being on every electronic device, or will build nixie tube project clocks.
old stuff is really rad, actually. people say modern things are built "more efficient". certainly in terms of waste products like CO2 or slag. but there has been a trend since the late 80s to build things to cost less to build, instead of to be efficient over the product's lifetime. even though 70s hifi tape decks will still work a charm, many 90s DCC or DAT systems are completely broken today. unsurprisingly, they're from the era of rubber dome membrane keyboards taking over, the era where it was cheaper for the manufacturer to build an entirely new keyboard than to replace a switch.
i thought as keyboard heads we understood that newer isn't always better. old keyboards are still built like tanks when modern mechanical keyboards usually aren't. they use really cool switches like hall effect or beamspring, which have rated lifetimes that leave ALPS and cherry MX in the dust. some of them have hugely thick circuit board traces, made of silver or gold because longevity and quality of use in an industrial setting was the top priority.
no matter how you slice it, injection moulding is an old fashioned process now. it was pioneered in the 60s. it's so well-optimised that it's one of the cheapest (in the economics sense, not the judgmental-about-quality sense) ways you can manufacture things today, even though in the 60s injection moulded plastic furniture cost more than handmade wooden or metal ones.
lots of us keyboard fans also like things like old hifi equipment. the best cassette machines are the ones from the 80s and 90s, not recent releases. lots of us know how older equipment that was built with heavy toggle switches and clicky stepper dials is satisfying. lots of us miss vacuum-fluorescent displays being on every electronic device, or will build nixie tube project clocks.
old stuff is really rad, actually. people say modern things are built "more efficient". certainly in terms of waste products like CO2 or slag. but there has been a trend since the late 80s to build things to cost less to build, instead of to be efficient over the product's lifetime. even though 70s hifi tape decks will still work a charm, many 90s DCC or DAT systems are completely broken today. unsurprisingly, they're from the era of rubber dome membrane keyboards taking over, the era where it was cheaper for the manufacturer to build an entirely new keyboard than to replace a switch.
dolljoints
155
May 7, 2018
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golden_bull_95i'm not sure which "that logic" you're referring to – maybe you think "old fashioned" is an insult? steel is old fashioned. concrete is old fashioned. but they're still the backbone of modern cities, because they do their job well. PBT is another well-known, reliable material. it's not cutting edge.
i do find it interesting how you injected aesthetic judgments, like mechanical keyboards being "bulky" instead of, say, "sturdy", or calling a new dell board "sleek" instead of "hollow and creaky", and seem to have decided that i hold these views.
i do find it interesting how you injected aesthetic judgments, like mechanical keyboards being "bulky" instead of, say, "sturdy", or calling a new dell board "sleek" instead of "hollow and creaky", and seem to have decided that i hold these views.
griftinfou
37
May 8, 2018
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droideggsPBT can be as smooth as ABS, it's up to the molds that are used. No one uses smooth molds for PBT caps so it's got a reputation for being rough when that's just the common molds for keycaps.
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but, i thought most of the older boards used PBT, be it dye sub or double shot? like the model F and M, or big PDP11 admin boards, or
don't get me wrong, PBT is great.. but it is kind of old fashioned at this point, as are most plastics in use today. unless their dye sub process is like... hecking amazing? i'd seen stuff saying SP constantly work to get sharper dyesub legends, are these guys similar? (though either way i find the marketing copy a little odd)