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Showing 1 of 57 conversations about:
RockinRaynor
2
Jul 10, 2018
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did i just go back in time? People still use iPods or other MP3 type machines to listen to music and not just use their phones?
inifist
99
Jul 10, 2018
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RockinRaynorthe DAP market is based on the people who feel their phone is not enough so they go and get beefier dedicated hardware towards playing music.
Crashspeeder
39
Jul 10, 2018
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inifistSeeing as some phones (LG G7, LG V35) have quad DACs, is that actually a valid stance? Granted, I know nothing about DAPs and DACs, so that's why I'm asking. How good are the DACs in these types of phones, and why would you even need four?
TaylorD
384
Jul 11, 2018
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CrashspeederI believe one of the main things is that there's so much crammed into a phone, electrically speaking, that while Quad DAC phones are better arguably, most times measurably, than phones without higher quality DACs, there is still a lot of extra stuff happening in a phone that can cause issues.
DAPs like this one, and External DAC solutions, like the Fiio Q1 Mark II, move the DAC/Amp functionality out of the phone, meaning less signal noise. DAPs generally have higher quality and higher power amplifiers than those inside of a phone.
I won't pretend I know 100% why 4 DAC chips is better than one, but I believe it's all in the name of cleaner audio, I would guess the same reason we have multiple processing and GPU cores in our phones these days. Though, as NwAvGuy mentioned while he was working on the ODAC, more DAC chips doesn't necessarily translate to better performance, and that it's the implementation of the DAC chips that makes them unique and useful.
Humans tend to really like centralization of functionality, but of course tying everything to a single failure point is something a lot of people aren't okay with. Such as having everything linked to your Google or Facebook account, if that lynchpin is hacked, everything else is as well. Same deal, if a phone has all the audio and dies, well, you can't listen to music on the go without charging it, and it'll drain your battery stupid-fast if you try to play games while listening to music or browsing the web, or whatever.
DAPs make sense from that standpoint, but it IS another piece of gear to carry around, keep charged/maintained, even if this one seems pretty decent for the price. Hope that helps.
DAPs like this one, and External DAC solutions, like the Fiio Q1 Mark II, move the DAC/Amp functionality out of the phone, meaning less signal noise. DAPs generally have higher quality and higher power amplifiers than those inside of a phone.
I won't pretend I know 100% why 4 DAC chips is better than one, but I believe it's all in the name of cleaner audio, I would guess the same reason we have multiple processing and GPU cores in our phones these days. Though, as NwAvGuy mentioned while he was working on the ODAC, more DAC chips doesn't necessarily translate to better performance, and that it's the implementation of the DAC chips that makes them unique and useful.
Humans tend to really like centralization of functionality, but of course tying everything to a single failure point is something a lot of people aren't okay with. Such as having everything linked to your Google or Facebook account, if that lynchpin is hacked, everything else is as well. Same deal, if a phone has all the audio and dies, well, you can't listen to music on the go without charging it, and it'll drain your battery stupid-fast if you try to play games while listening to music or browsing the web, or whatever.
DAPs make sense from that standpoint, but it IS another piece of gear to carry around, keep charged/maintained, even if this one seems pretty decent for the price. Hope that helps.
inifist
99
Jul 11, 2018
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CrashspeederYes, the LG line actually has impressive specs. Their quad-DAC probably uses differential signaling to achieve a very high SNR & a clean sound. Their amping is also pretty good.
If you are dead set on using an LG phone, and iems/cans that don't need a lot of juice (150 ohms or less will probably will optimal), that route will probably be the best.
If you have other needs though...
Higher end DAPs will have even more power for those people who have high impedance cans, etc.
It's all about market positioning & knowing what you want. Example: For this DAP, some things you can't do with a phone: DAC/amp passthrough from PC: For the Laptop/Phone nomad I guess Big library expansion: Space on phone for apps, space on dap for your 200 GBs of music. DSD support/apt BT: maybe the $1000 LG supports this, didn't check.
Another option is to use your phone for mass storage (especially for the SD card IO phones) & get an external DAC/AMP. I'd probably do that tbh, but my phone has 16GBs of storage.
It's all about market positioning & knowing what you want. Example: For this DAP, some things you can't do with a phone: DAC/amp passthrough from PC: For the Laptop/Phone nomad I guess Big library expansion: Space on phone for apps, space on dap for your 200 GBs of music. DSD support/apt BT: maybe the $1000 LG supports this, didn't check.
Another option is to use your phone for mass storage (especially for the SD card IO phones) & get an external DAC/AMP. I'd probably do that tbh, but my phone has 16GBs of storage.
Veathn
10
Jul 11, 2018
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TaylorDGreat breakdown dude. In my case I work in a secure no-camera/phone environment so if I want music I need a seperate device from what I'd normally use.
Sometimes the headspace an anachronistic device provides can be a fertile ground, especially with media devices like game consoles and photography kit.
Sometimes the headspace an anachronistic device provides can be a fertile ground, especially with media devices like game consoles and photography kit.
DeathNugg
4
Jul 11, 2018
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RockinRaynorYeah, some people like to listen to stuff other than high compression mp3s streamed over data networks. Regardless of what century it is.
Blusuave
0
Jul 11, 2018
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CrashspeederI wouldn't wan't to be stuck choosing between LG phones just to get better DAC's. Why scrifice a good phone experience when you can have whatever phone you want and still have a great DAC/AMP.
Steve007
24
Jul 11, 2018
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RayFNot sure I follow you the lg v20 & 30 have the best sound of any phone I have heard hands down. They however are not even in the same class as a good dap with a balanced output.
jimpx10
46
Jul 11, 2018
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RayFI have an iPhone, what this DAP does that my iPhone doesn't:
1. holds 512 gb of lossless files 2. has a line out for driving my amps 3. has usb out that feeds my DAC's (iPhone requires an adapter and on my phone pops and clicks)
if I want to stream MP3 files I can use my phone for that. But it doesn't compare to the lossless files I have,
1. holds 512 gb of lossless files 2. has a line out for driving my amps 3. has usb out that feeds my DAC's (iPhone requires an adapter and on my phone pops and clicks)
if I want to stream MP3 files I can use my phone for that. But it doesn't compare to the lossless files I have,
RayF
22220
Jul 11, 2018
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jimpx10Do you consider FLAC files lossless? I listen to mine on my iPhone with VLC, they sound pretty good. I don't have the 512 gb capacity (half that), but I don't need to carry that many tunes around all the time. I have DAC/Amp for the iPhone that connects to my phone with a short, right-angle Lightning to USB cable (pretty compact, very secure, no pops or clicks). I could connect it to my computer, but I have another DAC/Amp that I use for my desktop set up. That one sounds good, but it's not very portable. You can probably tell I'm not a fan of separate DACs and Amps; I'm a combo-kinda-guy.
Here's a few shots from the family album:
Here's a few shots from the family album:
RayF
22220
Jul 11, 2018
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Steve007I'm always curious when I read that all too common statement: "best sound of any (fill-in-blank) I have heard."
How exactly is that possible?
One would have to have possessed and listened to a shit-load of (fill-in-blanks)--in this case phones, for that statement to carry any particular weight in this conversation. So unless you happened to have a shit-load of current model phones lying around on your desk just recently (in order to do the comparison), I'd have to consider you and your comments, both full of (fill-in-blank ;- )
How exactly is that possible?
One would have to have possessed and listened to a shit-load of (fill-in-blanks)--in this case phones, for that statement to carry any particular weight in this conversation. So unless you happened to have a shit-load of current model phones lying around on your desk just recently (in order to do the comparison), I'd have to consider you and your comments, both full of (fill-in-blank ;- )
TaylorD
384
Jul 12, 2018
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RayFThe HA-1 and the Jot? Jeez, you got me and my Q1 Mark II/AuneX1s beat pretty bad.
I have a Pixel, myself and since the DAP can even use a USB DAC, I might get it because my phone rarely survives a full day, but I have a day where I can listen to music constantly, but can't have a laptop, and having the phone is still useful. so... It makes sense for my use case. But I get that you like what you like.
I have a Pixel, myself and since the DAP can even use a USB DAC, I might get it because my phone rarely survives a full day, but I have a day where I can listen to music constantly, but can't have a laptop, and having the phone is still useful. so... It makes sense for my use case. But I get that you like what you like.
TaylorD
384
Jul 12, 2018
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splattamusRayF is correct, but you do need an extra app, like VLC.
Steve007
24
Jul 12, 2018
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RayFWell your half right you can't compete, but its not a competition. Your loud and not very bright.
RayF
22220
Jul 12, 2018
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Steve007That's mighty "bold talk for a one-eyed fat man" with a James Bond identity complex!
Does your imaginary "M" know you're out here freelancing on an unsecured Hello Kitty flip-phone? Such a naughty boy! Guessing it's Roger's Moore's version of Bond that got your imaginary Lotus engine running in the first place? After all, he was the cheesiest 007 wasn't he?
Does your imaginary "M" know you're out here freelancing on an unsecured Hello Kitty flip-phone? Such a naughty boy! Guessing it's Roger's Moore's version of Bond that got your imaginary Lotus engine running in the first place? After all, he was the cheesiest 007 wasn't he?
Steve007
24
Jul 12, 2018
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RayFaka loud but not very bright whats wrong with a flip phone Warren Buffett supposedly still uses one.
Steve007
24
Jul 12, 2018
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RayFaka loud but not bery bright, the fact that yau can't even come up with your own original response does reimforce your new handle.
RayF
22220
Jul 12, 2018
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Steve007(otherwise known as boring, repetitive, and a poor speller), you think I have any interest in baby sitting you for free? Ask your mom to call me and maybe we can work something out--but I'm telling you up front, my rates aren't cheap and MD doesn't actually quantify as a licensed daycare facility.
Steve007
24
Jul 12, 2018
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RayFLoud but not so bright that's more like it. By the way it hard to cut class in the summer school is out. I guess you must have had to go to summer school to finish your courses.
By the way I preferred Chitty Chitty Bang Bang to Bond Miss Truly Scrumptious was a knockout.
Steve007
24
Jul 12, 2018
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RayFLoud but not so bright i think you mean qualify not quantify.
Steve007
24
Jul 12, 2018
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RayFLoud but not bright, I asked my mom but she said she doesn't suffer fools so that employment opportunity is out the window.
Steve007
24
Jul 12, 2018
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RayFLoud but no to bright, now you are in the game you have started your mama jokes. By the way qualify means you meet some metrics which as not so bright you certainly do, quantify would be to measure how stupid you really are and since its off the charts no one can say.
Steve007
24
Jul 12, 2018
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RayFNot me loud but not so bright, I'm enjoying a perfect evening looking out across the bay.
Kerry_Maxwell
163
Jul 14, 2018
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RockinRaynorIf I could store and play 250GB of FLAC and DSD files on my phone, I would probably use my phone instead of my Fiio X3II. But I can't, so I don't.
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